The Official 2015 British Grand Prix thread **SPOILERS**
Discussion
Williams do tend to play safe, maybe because they aren't fighting for a championship, so they would rather bring the cars home and get points than take a risk and maybe end up with no points, 2 broken cars and 2 drivers that wouldn't pee on each other if they were on fire.
There's also the "thing that must not be said"…
Felipe, Valtteri is faster than you.
There's also the "thing that must not be said"…
Felipe, Valtteri is faster than you.
My analysis may be coloured by the fact that I don't rate Massa as a racing driver but I think that Rob Smedley's devotion to Massa was part of the problem on Sunday. He's reluctant to admit that Bottas might be the better driver and doesn't want to hurt Massa's feelings.
In my opinion Massa doesn't have the fabled "extra capacity" that marks out a really good driver. He can get a car to go round a corner quickly but that's only one part of being a successful F1 driver. Bottas is at least as quick but seems to be a fair bit brighter too.
In my opinion Massa doesn't have the fabled "extra capacity" that marks out a really good driver. He can get a car to go round a corner quickly but that's only one part of being a successful F1 driver. Bottas is at least as quick but seems to be a fair bit brighter too.
rohrl said:
My analysis may be coloured by the fact that I don't rate Massa as a racing driver but I think that Rob Smedley's devotion to Massa was part of the problem on Sunday. He's reluctant to admit that Bottas might be the better driver and doesn't want to hurt Massa's feelings.
In my opinion Massa doesn't have the fabled "extra capacity" that marks out a really good driver. He can get a car to go round a corner quickly but that's only one part of being a successful F1 driver. Bottas is at least as quick but seems to be a fair bit brighter too.
I think Bottas is over-rated (and wasn't entirely surprised when he ham-fistedly gave a place away to LH early on).In my opinion Massa doesn't have the fabled "extra capacity" that marks out a really good driver. He can get a car to go round a corner quickly but that's only one part of being a successful F1 driver. Bottas is at least as quick but seems to be a fair bit brighter too.
A proper young-gun should be doing Massa over imo, and he's not.
heebeegeetee said:
I think Bottas is over-rated (and wasn't entirely surprised when he ham-fistedly gave a place away to LH early on).
A proper young-gun should be doing Massa over imo, and he's not.
Does that mean you were surprised when he properly overtook Hamilton a few laps later? Sure, Hamilton made a mistake but it wasn't as if the door was wide open for him, he had to work for it. A proper young-gun should be doing Massa over imo, and he's not.
Not to mention the fact that Massa was oh so nearly World Champion, so he isn't exactly slow.
leglessAlex said:
Does that mean you were surprised when he properly overtook Hamilton a few laps later? Sure, Hamilton made a mistake but it wasn't as if the door was wide open for him, he had to work for it.
Not to mention the fact that Massa was oh so nearly World Champion, so he isn't exactly slow.
I wouldn't remotely call that a proper overtake, it's just benefiting from someone else's cock up. Not to mention the fact that Massa was oh so nearly World Champion, so he isn't exactly slow.
Massa isn't top drawer, and Bottas should be able to out qualify him and overtake him if he's to be a future star imo.
heebeegeetee said:
I wouldn't remotely call that a proper overtake, it's just benefiting from someone else's cock up.
Massa isn't top drawer, and Bottas should be able to out qualify him and overtake him if he's to be a future star imo.
Fair enough, it looked about as proper an overtake as we are ever going to get with these cars from where I was sitting, but each to their own. Obviously Williams sees something in him, as do Ferrari if rumours are to be believed. Massa isn't top drawer, and Bottas should be able to out qualify him and overtake him if he's to be a future star imo.
RichB said:
VladD said:
IainT said:
heebeegeetee said:
Aren't they great? I mean, it even looks like you can get close to the drivers, like the "good old days". 
Awesome photos. Carmen... 
Sergio Perez by Robert Grounds, on Flickr5 year age gap?
Max Verstappen by Robert Grounds, on FlickrGaz. said:
Massa was nearly a WDC through outrageous stewarding and retrospective rule making. Massa can be quick on his day but not every day.
Bottas can shine and when he does he shines brightly, but I can also see HBGT's point as well.
One thing though, we've seen team mates struggle to overtake each other all season up and down the grid at every race, and it's hard to tell whether Merc waited for pistops to pass the Williams or really couldn't get the job done on pace alone. Were they waiting for rain for Rosberg to jump them, or going to pit for mediums behind them and use a tyre advantage in the closing stages if it didn't? I guess it doesn't matter now but it'd still be interesting.
That's fair enough, I didn't know that about that year as I didn't really watch it very much. The raw numbers are somewhat misleading as they often are it seems. Bottas can shine and when he does he shines brightly, but I can also see HBGT's point as well.
One thing though, we've seen team mates struggle to overtake each other all season up and down the grid at every race, and it's hard to tell whether Merc waited for pistops to pass the Williams or really couldn't get the job done on pace alone. Were they waiting for rain for Rosberg to jump them, or going to pit for mediums behind them and use a tyre advantage in the closing stages if it didn't? I guess it doesn't matter now but it'd still be interesting.
I reckon the Mercedes cars really couldn't pass them on pace alone. I don't agree with a lot of the complaints on this forum but one I do agree with is the areo component of the cars needs to be changed so they can run super close to the car in front. In clean air the Mercedes seemed to just have the edge (at least certainly Hamilton did) but as soon as they were in dirty air it seems they couldn't do a thing.
budgie smuggler said:
Gaz. said:
Massa was nearly a WDC through outrageous stewarding and retrospective rule making. Massa can be quick on his day but not every day.
What were the retrospective changes? Tried to google but struggling to find anything.heebeegeetee said:
leglessAlex said:
Does that mean you were surprised when he properly overtook Hamilton a few laps later? Sure, Hamilton made a mistake but it wasn't as if the door was wide open for him, he had to work for it.
Not to mention the fact that Massa was oh so nearly World Champion, so he isn't exactly slow.
I wouldn't remotely call that a proper overtake, it's just benefiting from someone else's cock up. Not to mention the fact that Massa was oh so nearly World Champion, so he isn't exactly slow.
Massa isn't top drawer, and Bottas should be able to out qualify him and overtake him if he's to be a future star imo.
heebeegeetee said:
I think Bottas is over-rated (and wasn't entirely surprised when he ham-fistedly gave a place away to LH early on).
^ I've always felt the same. He is a solid pair of hands, doesn't get flustered, etc. But I don't think he has the star dust of the top line drivers. Not being able to beat a past prime Massa is not a good sign.... although he could still get better? I see him in the same category as Perez - decent but not 'special'. Edited by VolvoT5 on Tuesday 7th July 14:09
heebeegeetee said:
I think Bottas is over-rated (and wasn't entirely surprised when he ham-fistedly gave a place away to LH early on).
A proper young-gun should be doing Massa over imo, and he's not.
Remember Hamilton throwing away his chance at his first championship at (one of?) the last GPs in his first season by overcooking his entrance to the pits?A proper young-gun should be doing Massa over imo, and he's not.
Pretty ham-fisted too, no?
Yet here he is, twice WDC and probably onto his 3rd...
VladD said:
Spa. Lewis passed Kimi by cutting the final chicane so, as the rules dictated, he let him back past and then repassed him into the first corner as it was wet and Lewis had loads more grip. It was then deemed that Lewis hadn't given Kimi and enough of advantage back. A new rule, retrospectively applied. I'm not sure if the wording was amended in the rules though.
ah, ta. 
Gaz. said:
RichB said:
Gaz. said:
Massa was nearly a WDC through outrageous stewarding and retrospective rule making...
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