So who's the village idiot?
Discussion
The chap who said Hamilton was making a mistake leaving McLaren or the chap who's suggesting the chap who said that is doing a s
t job?
Personally I've always had some time for EJ but Ron has been around a long time. He's clearly passionate and based on his involvement over the years in various pursuits appears to be a pretty switched on individual.
Over to the PH massive...........
t job?Personally I've always had some time for EJ but Ron has been around a long time. He's clearly passionate and based on his involvement over the years in various pursuits appears to be a pretty switched on individual.
Over to the PH massive...........
jordan was a flash in the pan. likeable enough character and some great cars/drivers/performances over the years. EJ did a lot with limited resources but just another also ran in the grand scheme of things.
ron maybe a droid but look at what he's built - f1 success over multiple generations, the roadcar programme etc. speaks for itself really.
ron maybe a droid but look at what he's built - f1 success over multiple generations, the roadcar programme etc. speaks for itself really.
I fluctuate between liking and disliking EJ.
It can be funny to hear what he comes out with but on several occasions I think he is just opening his mouth and saying the first thing that comes to mind for the sake of being heard.
Strikes me that for all he has achieved, he is still a pretty insecure person who doesn't like to think that anyone else could possibly be more right or know more about the machinations of F1 than he does.
Also looking forward to seeing if he still insists on wearing his wig in 10 years time and pretending he still has hair like that when approaching 80
It can be funny to hear what he comes out with but on several occasions I think he is just opening his mouth and saying the first thing that comes to mind for the sake of being heard.
Strikes me that for all he has achieved, he is still a pretty insecure person who doesn't like to think that anyone else could possibly be more right or know more about the machinations of F1 than he does.
Also looking forward to seeing if he still insists on wearing his wig in 10 years time and pretending he still has hair like that when approaching 80
EJ's always been a bit of a gobste best suited to small doses, but he doesn't really care who he offends or puts in their place and the world would be greyer with less hims telling-it-like-it-is and more suckups.
Ron... seems to be in utter denial of the fact that mclaren are a rolling disaster, they have been in uniform decline for a few years and that points to something comprehensively wrong IMO, but the way he glosses over it like it's a hitch that'll breeze over in no time makes it even worse.
Compare to Ferrari who were in a bad place, but made some fundamental changes. They didn't publically criticise themselves but it wasn't hard to read between the lines.
I don't even know precisely what EJ said but Ron should probably listen
te best suited to small doses, but he doesn't really care who he offends or puts in their place and the world would be greyer with less hims telling-it-like-it-is and more suckups.Ron... seems to be in utter denial of the fact that mclaren are a rolling disaster, they have been in uniform decline for a few years and that points to something comprehensively wrong IMO, but the way he glosses over it like it's a hitch that'll breeze over in no time makes it even worse.
Compare to Ferrari who were in a bad place, but made some fundamental changes. They didn't publically criticise themselves but it wasn't hard to read between the lines.
I don't even know precisely what EJ said but Ron should probably listen
hairyben said:
I don't even know precisely what EJ said but Ron should probably listen
I think Ron did listen. That's why he called him the village idiot. Ferrari turned blaming everyone else into an art form. At least Ron is not doing that.
The change in McLaren's fortune was when car production took over as Dennis' main concern.
I wouldn't listen to Jordan when it comes to fashion advice, let alone something important. He's selling controversy.
I'd like someone on the BBC team who asks a question without making a statement of their own views first.
Coulthard is informative by asking questions we want the answers to.
Villiage idiot said:
"You can say Honda is a mess. But so are McLaren.
“They have been a shadow of their former selves since they arrogantly stated that Lewis Hamilton would rue the day he left McLaren. Look how that has rebounded on them.
"That arrogance is still there at the top of McLaren. They are hopelessly off the pace and anyone who thinks it is just the engine is deluding themselves. The engine is a lot of it, but there are lots of other issues there.
"I personally think the day McLaren started building road cars was the day they took their eye off the ball in F1, and I will be surprised if they ever come close to winning titles again while that road car programme is still going and while the current management structure is in place.
“McLaren boss Ron Dennis sacked ex-team principal Martin Whitmarsh. But Whitmarsh never did the job of running that team as badly as Dennis is doing it now."
Whats so controversial about this? “They have been a shadow of their former selves since they arrogantly stated that Lewis Hamilton would rue the day he left McLaren. Look how that has rebounded on them.
"That arrogance is still there at the top of McLaren. They are hopelessly off the pace and anyone who thinks it is just the engine is deluding themselves. The engine is a lot of it, but there are lots of other issues there.
"I personally think the day McLaren started building road cars was the day they took their eye off the ball in F1, and I will be surprised if they ever come close to winning titles again while that road car programme is still going and while the current management structure is in place.
“McLaren boss Ron Dennis sacked ex-team principal Martin Whitmarsh. But Whitmarsh never did the job of running that team as badly as Dennis is doing it now."
Hamiltons hardly rueing the day he left I think it's fair to say?
I'd agree too the problems are more than just engine, it's debated at legth here but hardly controversial; the road car link is conjecture but again not unreasonable or unprecedented, the arrogance accusation is harsh but fair given the way they still act like they firmly believe they're a top team when they haven't so much as challenged for a race win for about 3 years.
It's also true that sacking whitmarsh hasn't done anything to change their fortunes.
Struggling to see whats so idiotic about this...
Jordan is the man who said on TV "My sources tell me Massa is fine" after Felipe's almost fatal accident after hitting that loose spring in Hungary. And Jake Humphrey standing right next to him remarked that he has been standing next to him the whole time and hasn't spoken to anyone.
Once an idiot, always an idiot.
Once an idiot, always an idiot.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/motoring/motorsport/272...
Telegraph article by Peter Dron said:
I can boast that I knew Eddie Jordan before he stopped being bald. Eddie is a fine fellow, and I would not spill the beans if this topic were not a matter of pointless debate for people with nothing better to do. Yes, he has three well-made wigs of different length, which he wears in rotation, and yes, he is as bald as a snooker ball under all of them.
I think they are both right, to an extent. Yes, McLaren are not doing well and EJ has some valid points, but their main issue is the Honda engine right now and I don't think anyone would have questioned the logic in partnering with Honda even 12 months ago. I suspect that will come right, however. As for the comments on the road car division, I suspect it has affected the team to some extent, but it is difficult to say how much. They aren't going to give it up and as it gets more established it will take less effort away from the F1 team as it looks after itself more and more.
RD is also right about EJ being the village idiot, I don't have a problem with EJ, he says what comes out of his mouth and often is well informed, and even has very valid points to make at times. His reputation is partly due to being the one who acts the idiot, and he doesn't seem bothered by it.
Overall though, RD has been, and continues to be, much more successful as an F1 team owner/boss.
RD is also right about EJ being the village idiot, I don't have a problem with EJ, he says what comes out of his mouth and often is well informed, and even has very valid points to make at times. His reputation is partly due to being the one who acts the idiot, and he doesn't seem bothered by it.
Overall though, RD has been, and continues to be, much more successful as an F1 team owner/boss.
andyps said:
I think they are both right, to an extent. Yes, McLaren are not doing well and EJ has some valid points, but their main issue is the Honda engine right now and I don't think anyone would have questioned the logic in partnering with Honda even 12 months ago. I suspect that will come right, however. As for the comments on the road car division, I suspect it has affected the team to some extent, but it is difficult to say how much. They aren't going to give it up and as it gets more established it will take less effort away from the F1 team as it looks after itself more and more.
RD is also right about EJ being the village idiot, I don't have a problem with EJ, he says what comes out of his mouth and often is well informed, and even has very valid points to make at times. His reputation is partly due to being the one who acts the idiot, and he doesn't seem bothered by it.
Overall though, RD has been, and continues to be, much more successful as an F1 team owner/boss.
EJ's only doing his job and critical comments is part of punditry. The guys getting the flack have to prove their critics wrong by performing better. RD is also right about EJ being the village idiot, I don't have a problem with EJ, he says what comes out of his mouth and often is well informed, and even has very valid points to make at times. His reputation is partly due to being the one who acts the idiot, and he doesn't seem bothered by it.
Overall though, RD has been, and continues to be, much more successful as an F1 team owner/boss.
Didn't the mechanics alter one of the signs on the cars back in the day to say "So no to rugs" rather than drugs when sponsored by a government anti drug policy?
When you see EJ as a TV pundit, you find it hard to believe that he ran a successful F1 team. However, you can see how he let it go to the dogs from 2000 onwards. Anyway Ron and EJ have always got on well so no doubt the village idiot was tongue in cheek.
When you see EJ as a TV pundit, you find it hard to believe that he ran a successful F1 team. However, you can see how he let it go to the dogs from 2000 onwards. Anyway Ron and EJ have always got on well so no doubt the village idiot was tongue in cheek.
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