****The Official Hungarian Grand Prix thread 2015****

[coetzeeh]

vonuber said:

coetzeeh said:

yes, several back markers he lapped.

Try watching the race again. After his puncture he made up a few places to come in 8th.

[coetzeeh]

So NOW the truth is out - according to the BBC F1 gossip column Lewis went on a date with Rihanna the week before the Hungarian race.

No wonder he was at sixes and sevens!

[Dr Z]

Absolutely stellar race with many wheelbanging, stellar overtakes and moves that were quite...Bianchi-esque if I may use such a term. It was as if Bianchi's racing spirit was with every one of them as they went racing.

It was very interesting to see the lap time data to compare the Ferrari vs Merc pace during this race, quite revealing too. Quite a few myths busted, especially the one where Ferrari only have the pace in high track temperatures.

Also, the myth of the all-conquering W06, a crack in the armour of Mercedes has been exposed. Whatever advantage Merc has over the field is pure aero on the evidence of the British and Hungarian GPs. And it was quite evident that they struggle when heavy, when they don't have clear air--or atleast, the W06 that had the most inherent pace in Hamilton's hands seemed to struggle, whilst Rosberg's even more so.

Ferrari...now that was a turnaround few expected in these forums, surely? I've been banging on about the tyres for a while now but I think the most clear demonstration of that was what we saw during this race and the British GP. It seems this is a gene inherited from the cars churned out of Maranello during the V8 era and not an 'Allison' trait. It was amazing how the pace from Vettel just evaporated on the Mediums for the final stint after safety car, yet he was able to keep Rosberg at bay. I think Rosberg will rue the mistake of looking in his mirrors than looking forwards with the tyre choice for that stint. Anyhow, Rosberg's Monaco luck seems to have evened out from here on in.

Lots of amazing drives but I think I liked Vettel's the most. After all the Red Bull years where I came to loathe exactly the kind of drive he put in yesterday, it was wonderfully (!) nostalgic to see that in this race. There were very few drives of Vettel's that I remember from his RB days but this one I will remember for a long, long time indeed.

As a side note: Pleased to see McLaren get both cars to the flag...so Alonso overtakes Raikkonen who was running without MGU-K. IOW, loss of 160hp. Boullier has been quoted as saying they're down by about 120hp. If that's true, then if Honda sort themselves out, McLaren should be atleast on Ferrari pace...c'mon Honda!

[London424]

For Ferrari I just see Redbull last year. Best of the rest picking up wins when Merc balls up.

There's nothing there that makes me think that (in the hands of Ham at least) the Merc is still at least 0.5 secs a lap faster than Ferrari.

[swisstoni]

I wish Lewis would show a bit more composure when trying to recover. He seems to advertise his moves with failed passing attempts all over the place before he is actually close enough and wears his tyres out and risks other grief in the process.
Having said that he's very effective as what he does and it can't be fun having him behind you.

[Mr_Thyroid]

swisstoni said:

I wish Lewis would show a bit more composure when trying to recover. He seems to advertise his moves with failed passing attempts all over the place before he is actually close enough and wears his tyres out and risks other grief in the process.
Having said that he's very effective as what he does and it can't be fun having him behind you.

I don't know if it was his normal line but it looked like he kept trying to go round the outside at turn 2 - trying to show that he could do what Daniel Ric did to him last year.

It was great to see Daniel have a go into turn 1. I reckon only him and Max V would attempt that.

[johnfm]

DeltonaS said:

ash73 said:

Hungrymc said:

And DR's dive up the inside of Nico, it was only Nico staying wide that avoided an incident (exactly the opposite to how DR squeezed Lewis earlier on). It was a bit of a kamikaze pass - but it's OK by me.
Nico letting his car run out into DR - ironically, had DR been further alongside it may have been a lesser incident (or it may have been a tangle of wheels and a car on its roof).

I'd be slightly critical of Daniel for that one personally, he'd dived up the inside from way back all locked up and lost the corner, Nico gave him a wide berth then just followed the normal line; but the thing is they have to hold their ground otherwise people take liberties the next time (e.g. Lewis on Bottas).

Totally agree, if Verstappen would've made that move Eddie Jordan would be all over him on the BBC; rookie error, he's too young for the sport, this isn't F3 etc.

Ricciardo did lose control under brakes - but had fully regained control of the car before he was hit by Rosberg. Rosberg wasn't in control of the car, if he was he wouldn't have hit Ricciardo, though it is a tricky one in the Ricciardo had managed to get himself onto the part of the track that Rosberg needed to be on. This rubbish about 'bullying' or 'taking liberties' is poppycock. Racing incident was generous but probably the right call. Would have been too harsh on Nico I think.

[johnfm]

ash73 said:

Seems it wasn't Nico's call here. One more lap and he would have been on softs, and probably won the race. Lewis is so jammy.

Yes dear, of course he is...

[Mr_Thyroid]

johnfm said:

Ricciardo did lose control under brakes - but had fully regained control of the car before he was hit by Rosberg. Rosberg wasn't in control of the car, if he was he wouldn't have hit Ricciardo, though it is a tricky one in the Ricciardo had managed to get himself onto the part of the track that Rosberg needed to be on. This rubbish about 'bullying' or 'taking liberties' is poppycock. Racing incident was generous but probably the right call. Would have been too harsh on Nico I think.

Disagree. Rosberg was in control. I reckon he saw DR come flying past, thought "he's off" and took his normal line.

I reckon the in-control Rosberg verses the out-of-control Hamilton was the crucial difference that meant Hamilton got the extra penalty. Can we read the stewards' reasoning anywhere?

[Mr_Thyroid]

Hungrymc said:

And DR's dive up the inside of Nico, it was only Nico staying wide that avoided an incident (exactly the opposite to how DR squeezed Lewis earlier on). It was a bit of a kamikaze pass - but it's OK by me.
Nico letting his car run out into DR - ironically, had DR been further alongside it may have been a lesser incident (or it may have been a tangle of wheels and a car on its roof).

Oh come on! There was no squeeze by Ricciardo - Lewis slid wide into him. Ricciardo has every right to assume that Hamilton will be able to maintain control of his car.

I don't think there was anything at all wrong with DRs attempt on Rosberg either. If memory serves he locked one wheel, Rosberg didn't have to avoid, and Ricciardo never left the track. It was a valiant attempt and Rosberg will know that he made a big mistake in not avoiding the contact of the exit.

[IainT]

Mr_Thyroid said:

Oh come on! There was no squeeze by Ricciardo - Lewis slid wide into him. Ricciardo has every right to assume that Hamilton will be able to maintain control of his car.

I don't think there was anything at all wrong with DRs attempt on Rosberg either. If memory serves he locked one wheel, Rosberg didn't have to avoid, and Ricciardo never left the track. It was a valiant attempt and Rosberg will know that he made a big mistake in not avoiding the contact of the exit.

Spot on. Ham didn't expect the amount of understeer he encountered - he probably should have a the stewards viewed it his fault and gave him a (fairly harsh) penalty.

DR did nothing wrong with NR, maybe Nico should have been smarter when moving back to the track limits and left enough room for Daniel - if he had he'd have had a lot more points from the race.

[Europa1]

coetzeeh said:

So NOW the truth is out - according to the BBC F1 gossip column Lewis went on a date with Rihanna the week before the Hungarian race.

No wonder he was at sixes and sevens!

I really hope the date story isn't true. From what one reads in the papers, she seems to be "a bit of a handful", to put it mildly, and I suspect that's the last thing Lewis Hamilton needs in a tight championship race.

[johnfm]

ash73 said:

johnfm said:

This rubbish about 'bullying' or 'taking liberties' is poppycock.

If you race with the same people regularly you learn who you can take liberties with, and who you can't. And it constantly evolves as incidents happen from time to time. For example I would say Bottas is an easy touch wheel to wheel, Danny isn't.

That's a fair view. Now I see what you mean.

Pretty clear that Rosberg has no qualms with driving into people (first LH last year and Ricciardo last week).

[London424]

johnfm said:

ash73 said:

johnfm said:

This rubbish about 'bullying' or 'taking liberties' is poppycock.

If you race with the same people regularly you learn who you can take liberties with, and who you can't. And it constantly evolves as incidents happen from time to time. For example I would say Bottas is an easy touch wheel to wheel, Danny isn't.

That's a fair view. Now I see what you mean.

Pretty clear that Rosberg has no qualms with driving into people (first LH last year and Ricciardo last week).

I guess the irony is he can't complain too loudly about what Ric did, as he did exactly the same to Lewis last year. Can't have it both ways.

[VladD]

Some interesting comments and facts from Mark Hughes again.

[Catatafish]

Ok so something similar happened at the start in Silverstone, but the Mercs ended up one-two. Why didn't that happen here? - lower track temp meant that the Merc setup didn't work like the day before, with the cars more of a handful, and the lower peak speeds/ less straights of Hungaroring equalises the merc powerplant's advantages...

or an alternative (one race goldfish memory) view: Vettel is God and Scuderia Ferrari are going to spank mercedes from here on in, just like they did after Malaysia

Also, Rhianna clearly handled the goods on the first date IMO

[London424]

Catatafish said:

Ok so something similar happened at the start in Silverstone, but the Mercs ended up one-two. Why didn't that happen here? - lower track temp meant that the Merc setup didn't work like the day before, with the cars more of a handful, and the lower peak speeds/ less straights of Hungaroring equalises the merc powerplant's advantages...

or an alternative (one race goldfish memory) view: Vettel is God and Scuderia Ferrari are going to spank mercedes from here on in, just like they did after Malaysia

Also, Rhianna clearly handled the goods on the first date IMO

Fewer, shorter, straights so harder to overtake, Ham had a shocker so was never in position to challenge and Rosberg never seemed to have a decent set up all weekend.

[rdjohn]

VladD said:

Some interesting comments and facts from Mark Hughes again.

Fand a Q&A from Toto here

Q: But then when did you lose Nico’s race? He was in a promising position and at one point looked set to take the lead in the championship…

TW: Nico struggled on the soft tyres at the beginning - then we put the prime on. It was a very unlucky situation for a tyre change: you put the tyres under the pot to heat in case you have an accident and have to pit - and because it was 28 or something laps to the chequered flag the prime tyre was still under the pot and when the virtual safety car came out. He was three corners from the pit lane entrance then, so we called him in - and the only tyre available that very moment was the prime tyre. If he had done a lap under the virtual safety car then we would have switched from the prime to the option as his final tyre - but you have to live with your decisions. We will enter this race in the books as our contribution for a sizzling race. Don’t expect us to do this more than once! (laughs) We will do anything to get back to where we’ve been.

This seems a bit odd, I thought teams had a few sets in blankets, ready-to-go, at any one time.

[VladD]

ash73 said:

London424 said:

I guess the irony is he can't complain too loudly about what Ric did, as he did exactly the same to Lewis last year. Can't have it both ways.

Good point, but Nico got in an awful lot of trouble for that, not least on here. Where is the same criticism of Danny?

I think the big difference is that last year Nico claimed that he could have pulled out but chose not to.

[Hungrymc]

johnfm said:

Ricciardo did lose control under brakes - but had fully regained control of the car before he was hit by Rosberg. Rosberg wasn't in control of the car, if he was he wouldn't have hit Ricciardo, though it is a tricky one in the Ricciardo had managed to get himself onto the part of the track that Rosberg needed to be on. This rubbish about 'bullying' or 'taking liberties' is poppycock. Racing incident was generous but probably the right call. Would have been too harsh on Nico I think.

you're getting a little excited and misunderstanding me.

Nico had to 'accommodate' Daniels dive up the inside from way to far back (hence Daniel being on a very, very wide and slow compromised line out of the corner). Nico couldn't turn in when he needed too because Daniel sailed past the apex out of control. Had Nico turned in, I think DR would have been done for causing a collision.

Everyone was aware that Nico was going to use the way DR ran far too deep before getting turned to cut back inside and re-claim the exit and put his car where Daniel wanted to be.

Racing incident was the right call because they both contributed.

Poor execution by both.

My view (as someone who really doesn't like Nico and highly rates Daniel) is that Daniel was lucky to have got away with the dive up the inside which triggered the whole thing.

I'm not asking you to agree by the way. View it as you wish.

Edited by Hungrymc on Friday 31st July 09:03