****The Official Belgian (Spa) Grand Prix thread 2015****
Discussion
I guess Pirelli will investigate Nico's and Seb's failures, but I agree that tyres shouldn't fail structurally due to wear (or at least not until several other warning signs have been ignored)
I know it was a long time ago, and it was on intermediates, but you could argue that Lewis' tyres in China 2007 showed how a completely shagged tyre should behave - if his tyres didn't explode then, there's no reason that current tyres should either
I know it was a long time ago, and it was on intermediates, but you could argue that Lewis' tyres in China 2007 showed how a completely shagged tyre should behave - if his tyres didn't explode then, there's no reason that current tyres should either
Vaud said:
Genius. Maybe Mr Bolt should be more regulated - have shortened legs or have to carry a weight penalty? Maybe Ronnie Corbett in a rucksack? Or have his lane wetted first? It's all about the show...
...and of course level the field by having single make, slick shoes and a push-to-pass system.Nigel_O said:
I guess Pirelli will investigate Nico's and Seb's failures, but I agree that tyres shouldn't fail structurally due to wear (or at least not until several other warning signs have been ignored)
I know it was a long time ago, and it was on intermediates, but you could argue that Lewis' tyres in China 2007 showed how a completely shagged tyre should behave - if his tyres didn't explode then, there's no reason that current tyres should either
Key thing is no-one knows what the cause of Seb's tyre failure was - wear, damage from kerb or debris, setup, manufacture, random bad luck... there are so many factors involved and it might be a combination of things that led to the failure.I know it was a long time ago, and it was on intermediates, but you could argue that Lewis' tyres in China 2007 showed how a completely shagged tyre should behave - if his tyres didn't explode then, there's no reason that current tyres should either
ash73 said:
Derek Smith said:
M3ax said:
I enjoyed the race but then, I usually do as F1 is my favourite sport. I did briefly switch channels though to watch the 100m final from Beijing. Talk about boring. The same guy always wins. He's won 3 world championships in a row! They really should change the rules so someone else can win otherwise people will stop watching.
Your point is well made. 
entropy said:
RichB said:
I have no idea, he hammered it over the kerbs at Eau Rouge, full speed, heavy downloads and then it failed. I'm sure the fact it was worn through contributed.
Doesn't help trying to one stop.Pirelli are judge and jury with regard to their product failing or otherwise.
As Vettel grasped, and was vocal about, is that Pirelli are not going to say they made a bad/faulty tyre (again), are they?
Normally tyres wear out by the black rings you see of missing tread that is worn out in holes/patches.
Now a worn out tyre just explodes.
Pirelli are not making sense, are they?
With regard to Rosberg's failure, and listening to Pirelli's explanation is that the tyre was punctured/cut, but kind of inside-out, so it fell to bits on the inside first, then exploded. So Rosberg drove for half a lap at full speed, in an F1 car at Spa, with a tyre that had a cut in it?
I don't think so.
Last year as soon as Hamilton was tapped by Rosberg his tyre was punctured/cut it went flat, not half a lap later.
And presumably Vettel's 3 remaining tyres were about to explode as well?
On a clockwise circuit like Spa you would expect more wear on the outside tyre, not the inside as in Rosberg's and Vettel's.
Nothing makes sense. Not only are F1 drivers being treated like they are thick, but we all are. Again.
The guy in charge of Pirelli appears better suited to managing a supermarket store/bank with his 'blame everyone else' culture. He's always been a bit arrogant/smarmy I think. Rather than looking into the problem properly and going through the motions, he has upset the teams as well as making a fool of Pirelli, at a time when Michelin are looking into taking over things again.
As Vettel grasped, and was vocal about, is that Pirelli are not going to say they made a bad/faulty tyre (again), are they?
Normally tyres wear out by the black rings you see of missing tread that is worn out in holes/patches.
Now a worn out tyre just explodes.
Pirelli are not making sense, are they?
With regard to Rosberg's failure, and listening to Pirelli's explanation is that the tyre was punctured/cut, but kind of inside-out, so it fell to bits on the inside first, then exploded. So Rosberg drove for half a lap at full speed, in an F1 car at Spa, with a tyre that had a cut in it?
I don't think so.
Last year as soon as Hamilton was tapped by Rosberg his tyre was punctured/cut it went flat, not half a lap later.
And presumably Vettel's 3 remaining tyres were about to explode as well?
On a clockwise circuit like Spa you would expect more wear on the outside tyre, not the inside as in Rosberg's and Vettel's.
Nothing makes sense. Not only are F1 drivers being treated like they are thick, but we all are. Again.
The guy in charge of Pirelli appears better suited to managing a supermarket store/bank with his 'blame everyone else' culture. He's always been a bit arrogant/smarmy I think. Rather than looking into the problem properly and going through the motions, he has upset the teams as well as making a fool of Pirelli, at a time when Michelin are looking into taking over things again.
JustinF said:
Vettle's tyre wasn't down to the carcass, the tread separated from it. It's not a stretch to ask if that separation was due to side-wall flex beyond the usual parameters, caused by the constant bashing over the kerbs?
race ccts have had kerbs from day one, making tyres that cannot deal with hitting them is plain criminal.FFS this is not rocket science, it's nothing new, Pirelli need to deal with it.
JustinF said:
Vettle's tyre wasn't down to the carcass, the tread separated from it. It's not a stretch to ask if that separation was due to side-wall flex beyond the usual parameters, caused by the constant bashing over the kerbs?
I'd have thought if there was something on the track damaging the tyres to the point of failure then out of the 300+ odd sets used over the weekend there'd be others showing preliminary damage?VladD said:
Can it be a coincidence that Vettel's tyre blew just after Eau Rouge and Rosberg's tyre first showed damage just after Eau Rouge? Could there have been something on the Eau Rouge kerb that was cutting the tyre?
Nico's tyre showed signs of damage on the inside right-rear and later exploded whereas Seb's tyre didn't explode as such - the tread surface ripped itself off at the outer edge of the right-rear but the canvas was still intact.BlimeyCharlie said:
Pirelli are judge and jury with regard to their product failing or otherwise.
I'm not sure they will be.The tyres on the other cars will be examined, and I have no doubt the various lap times, lap speed, etc, and I would assume they will have to produce their results to an official.
I think the only person who was judge and jury was Vettel. He might be right, but then equally he might be wrong.
I would assume this will be quite big in F1 circles and a quick rejection of the accusation is not sufficient.
entropy said:
RichB said:
I have no idea, he hammered it over the kerbs at Eau Rouge, full speed, heavy downloads and then it failed. I'm sure the fact it was worn through contributed.
Doesn't help trying to one stop.As mentioned it's also dangerous so, y'know... better fix it.
Mr_Thyroid said:
But as fans we want to see drivers hammering it over kerbs and trying risky one-stop strategies. There has been so much talk about improving the show over the last few months that Pirelli's shortcomings should not be allowed dilute these aspects.
As mentioned it's also dangerous so, y'know... better fix it.
kerb hopping is part of motorsport:As mentioned it's also dangerous so, y'know... better fix it.
you don't see touring cars suffer so many catastrophic tyre failures do you?
As Hembrey said if the tyre had lasted then Vettel and Ferrari would have been deemed geniuses.
It was worth it see Eddie Jordan going on about Renault in relation to the team now known as Lotus getting on the podium with Grosjean despite them having a Mercedes engine.
It was worth it see Eddie Jordan going on about Renault in relation to the team now known as Lotus getting on the podium with Grosjean despite them having a Mercedes engine.
Edited by carinaman on Monday 24th August 18:38
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