What they'll look like in 2017
Discussion
angrymoby said:
Eric Mc said:
Four wheel drive had been tried in 1969/70 and could possibly have been more popular had not the advent of downforce produced increased grip with less complexity and weight.
Looking at the future from 1970, four wheel drive might have seemed a viable technology for F1.
they'd probably be using it now if it hadn't of been bannedLooking at the future from 1970, four wheel drive might have seemed a viable technology for F1.
It was dropped by the teams that tried it because they could get better grip using aerofoils for far less weight. And the few races where four wheel drive cars ran they didn't perform that well.
If AEROFOILS had been banned back in 1968/69, I'm pretty sure four wheel drive would have become a common feature of F1 cars.
Doing a bit of searching on the internet reveals that four wheel drive was formally banned in 1982 - so well after the era I'm referring to. The ban came about as a result of the Williams and March cars which featured four driven wheels at the back of the car - not really what we normally mean by four wheel drive systems.
Eric Mc said:
Was it banned back then?
It was dropped by the teams that tried it because they could get better grip using aerofoils for far less weight. And the few races where four wheel drive cars ran they didn't perform that well.
If AEROFOILS had been banned back in 1968/69, I'm pretty sure four wheel drive would have become a common feature of F1 cars.
Doing a bit of searching on the internet reveals that four wheel drive was formally banned in 1982 - so well after the era I'm referring to. The ban came about as a result of the Williams and March cars which featured four driven wheels at the back of the car - not really what we normally mean by four wheel drive systems.
i wasn't sure, but wiki seems to think that awd was banned as consequence of the banning of 4wd on the 6 wheeled FW08D in '82It was dropped by the teams that tried it because they could get better grip using aerofoils for far less weight. And the few races where four wheel drive cars ran they didn't perform that well.
If AEROFOILS had been banned back in 1968/69, I'm pretty sure four wheel drive would have become a common feature of F1 cars.
Doing a bit of searching on the internet reveals that four wheel drive was formally banned in 1982 - so well after the era I'm referring to. The ban came about as a result of the Williams and March cars which featured four driven wheels at the back of the car - not really what we normally mean by four wheel drive systems.
That is exactly my point.
Genuine four wheel drive (i.e. four wheel at each corner with the front "steering" wheels also being driven)) was tried in 1969/70 and found not to be as effective as downforce and therefore abandoned - but not banned at the time.
The actual banning did not take place for another 12 years - and then the four driven wheels were at the back of the car and were part of an aerodynamic package. The point of this later arrangement was to use smaller wheels at the rear to allow a better airflow through the aerodynamic sidepods in use at the time.
Downforce generating sidepods were themselves banned in 1983.
Genuine four wheel drive (i.e. four wheel at each corner with the front "steering" wheels also being driven)) was tried in 1969/70 and found not to be as effective as downforce and therefore abandoned - but not banned at the time.
The actual banning did not take place for another 12 years - and then the four driven wheels were at the back of the car and were part of an aerodynamic package. The point of this later arrangement was to use smaller wheels at the rear to allow a better airflow through the aerodynamic sidepods in use at the time.
Downforce generating sidepods were themselves banned in 1983.
Eric Mc said:
That is exactly my point.
Genuine four wheel drive (i.e. four wheel at each corner with the front "steering" wheels also being driven)) was tried in 1969/70 and found not to be as effective as downforce and therefore abandoned - but not banned at the time.
The actual banning did not take place for another 12 years - and then the four driven wheels were at the back of the car and were part of an aerodynamic package. The point of this later arrangement was to use smaller wheels at the rear to allow a better airflow through the aerodynamic sidepods in use at the time.
Downforce generating sidepods were themselves banned in 1983.
agree, nowhere near as effective as downforce, especially in mid-high speed corners ...but i reckon teams would at least be investigating it's use in F1 if they were allowed to, not only has awd advanced massively since the 80's (through rallying & we now have individually powered fronts thanks to hybrids) but we also have a lot more low-mid corners & chicanes in F1 these daysGenuine four wheel drive (i.e. four wheel at each corner with the front "steering" wheels also being driven)) was tried in 1969/70 and found not to be as effective as downforce and therefore abandoned - but not banned at the time.
The actual banning did not take place for another 12 years - and then the four driven wheels were at the back of the car and were part of an aerodynamic package. The point of this later arrangement was to use smaller wheels at the rear to allow a better airflow through the aerodynamic sidepods in use at the time.
Downforce generating sidepods were themselves banned in 1983.
Eric Mc said:
I agree with that. Times have moved on and, if F1 really wants to be associated with more mainstream automotive technology, then allowing proper 4WD might be a worthwhile thing to explore.
After all, rallying went 4WD many years ago.
It would be interesting to see what grip it would provide to then allow a reduction in front wing area/size.After all, rallying went 4WD many years ago.
4WD, whilst not providing comparable grip - at least it doesn't mess up the air flow...
Vaud said:
Eric Mc said:
I agree with that. Times have moved on and, if F1 really wants to be associated with more mainstream automotive technology, then allowing proper 4WD might be a worthwhile thing to explore.
After all, rallying went 4WD many years ago.
It would be interesting to see what grip it would provide to then allow a reduction in front wing area/size.After all, rallying went 4WD many years ago.
4WD, whilst not providing comparable grip - at least it doesn't mess up the air flow...
Eric Mc said:
You might even get front engined cars again. Now THAT would be interesting.
Nissan GT-R LMP with the bodywork off…
Put some open wheel bodywork on that, oh and get the hybrid system working to the rear wheels.
Eric Mc said:
It'd be fun to let them try.
I agree. Would be interesting to see what they came up with - like early KERS there were a few different approaches.One idea to help the racing/car community - why not enforce "open source" after a time delay - i.e. say 5 years after a system is integrated, the specs, design and source code has to be released to the market under OSS terms.
It's a long enough period that no performance could be gained by a competitor - but might help foster a whole generation of new ideas from budding engineers? Just a thought.
So it looks like they might be coming to an agreement on ground effects, actually agreeing on something between f1 teams is a milestone in itself!
http://www.grandprixtimes.com/news/display/10600
Ground effects the likely way it'll go by the sound of this
http://www.grandprixtimes.com/news/display/10600
Ground effects the likely way it'll go by the sound of this
Vaud said:
It would be interesting to see what grip it would provide to then allow a reduction in front wing area/size.
4WD, whilst not providing comparable grip - at least it doesn't mess up the air flow...
How sensitive would the rest of the cars aero be to the rotating drive shaft to we reckon? 4WD, whilst not providing comparable grip - at least it doesn't mess up the air flow...
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