Will McLaren survive their Honda contract?
Discussion
Adam Ansel said:
Jenson already exceeded 100 laps today and is 5th in the timings.
Not too shabby.
No, I agree, they seem to be showing some sensible pace, and (dare I say it) reliability.Not too shabby.
My fear is that this is it, they get it reliable but 2 sec's off the pace with no way to improve though the year.
This comes from me being a McLaren fan of old...
To be fair to Mclaren, they've always been very good at in season development and in times past when it was less about the engine and more chassis/aero they normally have one of the best cars.
I think if Honda can develop the engine well then they could be top 3 by the end of the year.
I think if Honda can develop the engine well then they could be top 3 by the end of the year.
sirtyro said:
To be fair to Mclaren, they've always been very good at in season development and in times past when it was less about the engine and more chassis/aero they normally have one of the best cars.
I think if Honda can develop the engine well then they could be top 3 by the end of the year.
that certainly wasn't the case with them last yearI think if Honda can develop the engine well then they could be top 3 by the end of the year.
There is a lot of bits and bobs to show that the chassis is actually pretty nifty. Last sector times, turn 3 exit speeds etc. unfortunately that engine is out of Mclaren's hands to a greater or lesser degree and the development curve is much shallower than with chassis.
Whilst this upgrade appears to have been a step, they will need the same step from the next upgrade and then a couple more to be top 3 I fear.
Whilst this upgrade appears to have been a step, they will need the same step from the next upgrade and then a couple more to be top 3 I fear.
Scuffers said:
sirtyro said:
To be fair to Mclaren, they've always been very good at in season development and in times past when it was less about the engine and more chassis/aero they normally have one of the best cars.
I think if Honda can develop the engine well then they could be top 3 by the end of the year.
that certainly wasn't the case with them last yearI think if Honda can develop the engine well then they could be top 3 by the end of the year.
sirtyro said:
They had no control over the engine which was the main problem last year. One homologated they were stuck with a problem the entire season. It's another reason to get rid of the token system and let engine manufactures invest as much as they want...it is technology that after all is meant to trickle down to normal car users.
total clap-trap.road car hybrids have zero development based on F1, it's pretty much been the other way round, the F1 challenge has been about getting it small and light enough with higher peak energy flows.
Scuffers said:
sirtyro said:
They had no control over the engine which was the main problem last year. One homologated they were stuck with a problem the entire season. It's another reason to get rid of the token system and let engine manufactures invest as much as they want...it is technology that after all is meant to trickle down to normal car users.
total clap-trap.road car hybrids have zero development based on F1, it's pretty much been the other way round, the F1 challenge has been about getting it small and light enough with higher peak energy flows.
Scuffers said:
So, which came first?
Toyota and Honda hybrids, or f1 hybrids?
Of course the road hybrids came first. However by pushing the technology hard for racing it helps you improve understanding what is possible etc. But however you look at it then it's far more relevant than building a big V12 (as much as we may not like that from a sound perspective). Toyota and Honda hybrids, or f1 hybrids?
NRS said:
Of course the road hybrids came first. However by pushing the technology hard for racing it helps you improve understanding what is possible etc. But however you look at it then it's far more relevant than building a big V12 (as much as we may not like that from a sound perspective).
SO, show us the f1 derived hybrid tech in a road car then?Scuffers said:
sirtyro said:
They had no control over the engine which was the main problem last year. One homologated they were stuck with a problem the entire season. It's another reason to get rid of the token system and let engine manufactures invest as much as they want...it is technology that after all is meant to trickle down to normal car users.
total clap-trap.road car hybrids have zero development based on F1, it's pretty much been the other way round, the F1 challenge has been about getting it small and light enough with higher peak energy flows.
sirtyro said:
Scuffers said:
sirtyro said:
They had no control over the engine which was the main problem last year. One homologated they were stuck with a problem the entire season. It's another reason to get rid of the token system and let engine manufactures invest as much as they want...it is technology that after all is meant to trickle down to normal car users.
total clap-trap.road car hybrids have zero development based on F1, it's pretty much been the other way round, the F1 challenge has been about getting it small and light enough with higher peak energy flows.
F1 isn't playing catch up, it's heading in a different direction. I'm not sure there's much in WEC that's truly relevant to mass produced road cars
Most major manufacturers are done with real hybrid development and are putting their efforts into EVs. The new hybrids being launched are no more than tax avoidance niceties.
FE shows that's electric's not going to be suitable for F1 in the foreseeable, so they've gone hybrid to mollify criticism.
Scuffers said:
SO, show us the f1 derived hybrid tech in a road car then?
Do take price in being deliberately obtuse?Engine technology developed in F1 will filter down and have use in road vehicles, its the one of the major reasons for the path taken in recent engine changes. Saying 'show me the tech in a road car' is somewhat over simplifying and missing the point. What is being done in modern f1 with packaging, heat cycle and efficiency and thermodynamic boundary pushing is really quite amazing.
Some of the claptrap spouted here really makes me chuckle.
gibbon said:
Engine technology developed in F1 will filter down and have use in road vehicles, its the one of the major reasons for the path taken in recent engine changes.
I think you've fallen for the propaganda, it's a marketing ploy pure and simple, both F1 and the car manufacturers want to persuade the gullible that they're green. The car manufacturers aren't in F1 for technical development purposes, they're in it because their marketing departments think it will help them sell more cars. The driving characteristics and power requirements of F1 cars are so radically different from that of road cars that the technology transfer will be negligible, and certainly not worth anything like the amount of money being spent.
RYH64E said:
I think you've fallen for the propaganda, it's a marketing ploy pure and simple, both F1 and the car manufacturers want to persuade the gullible that they're green.
The car manufacturers aren't in F1 for technical development purposes, they're in it because their marketing departments think it will help them sell more cars. The driving characteristics and power requirements of F1 cars are so radically different from that of road cars that the technology transfer will be negligible, and certainly not worth anything like the amount of money being spent.
I dont think i have, i have an MEng in mechanical engineering, so have some loose basis for my view, the trickle down of technology is not direct, you are not going to visually see components appear from one to the other of course, but look a layer or three deeper and the technology and science development does indeed have worth for road cars. Look at the trend in engine design for all types of road car, small forced induction with hybrid technology. Pretty clear to see the ideas are entirely relevant.The car manufacturers aren't in F1 for technical development purposes, they're in it because their marketing departments think it will help them sell more cars. The driving characteristics and power requirements of F1 cars are so radically different from that of road cars that the technology transfer will be negligible, and certainly not worth anything like the amount of money being spent.
gibbon said:
I dont think i have, i have an MEng in mechanical engineering, so have some loose basis for my view, the trickle down of technology is not direct, you are not going to visually see components appear from one to the other of course, but look a layer or three deeper and the technology and science development does indeed have worth for road cars. Look at the trend in engine design for all types of road car, small forced induction with hybrid technology. Pretty clear to see the ideas are entirely relevant.
sorry, but even your example is blatantly wrong.there are plenty of examples of this being used before F1 went hybrid.
About the only thing F1 going hybrid has done is the development of turbines optimised for energy recovery, however, the the real world, they would not have gone this way, they would have borrowed the tech from gas turbines rather than start with a simple turbo.
Scuffers said:
sorry, but even your example is blatantly wrong.
there are plenty of examples of this being used before F1 went hybrid.
About the only thing F1 going hybrid has done is the development of turbines optimised for energy recovery, however, the the real world, they would not have gone this way, they would have borrowed the tech from gas turbines rather than start with a simple turbo.
Ok mate, carry on reading whatever you want to read into the words written to try to fit your point.there are plenty of examples of this being used before F1 went hybrid.
About the only thing F1 going hybrid has done is the development of turbines optimised for energy recovery, however, the the real world, they would not have gone this way, they would have borrowed the tech from gas turbines rather than start with a simple turbo.
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