Will McLaren survive their Honda contract?
Discussion
NRS said:
MG CHRIS said:
Well looks like the will McLaren finish below team hass has gone of to a good start 8 points down already.
It wasn't a "correct" result though. 6 cars retired, and quite a few of the cars behind Haas got the call on tyres wrong (Torro Roso both cars, McLaren etc.). I am sure McLaren will finish above Haas this year. You can only do the best with what you have, but a lot of the Haas position came down to "luck" as a result of the right call by Haas, not having pitted before (like Hamilton for example) and other teams getting the wrong strategy of tyres after the red flag.Interesting info:
Last year's Aus GP fastest lap by a Ferrari was: 1:31.426 (L36; Avg speed: 208.811 kph)
This year's Aus GP fastest lap by McLaren: 1:31.684 (L33; Avg speed: 208.223 kph)
Ferrari was on Soft vs Button on Mediums and the other fastest lap by Vettel on medium in 2015 is also similar in speed.
The question is then, are McLaren up to 2015 Ferrari pace? How quickly can they catch up? If their chassis is good as they are want to point out, then they should be fighting with Torro Rosso who have a good bench mark with the 2015 Ferrari PU. I look forward to next race. Two long straights. Will be interesting.
Last year's Aus GP fastest lap by a Ferrari was: 1:31.426 (L36; Avg speed: 208.811 kph)
This year's Aus GP fastest lap by McLaren: 1:31.684 (L33; Avg speed: 208.223 kph)
Ferrari was on Soft vs Button on Mediums and the other fastest lap by Vettel on medium in 2015 is also similar in speed.
The question is then, are McLaren up to 2015 Ferrari pace? How quickly can they catch up? If their chassis is good as they are want to point out, then they should be fighting with Torro Rosso who have a good bench mark with the 2015 Ferrari PU. I look forward to next race. Two long straights. Will be interesting.
speedy_thrills said:
Didn't look that impressive but it's very early in the year.
In many ways it would make sense for Honda to supply more than one team with engines if they wanted to improve more rapidly but as McLaren have used a veto on that so you have to assume they are in this for the very long term.
I believe that the right of veto that RD negotiated in the original contract is for the first 2 years only. Thus he won't be able to veto any decisions made for 2017. There could well be performance related clauses though.In many ways it would make sense for Honda to supply more than one team with engines if they wanted to improve more rapidly but as McLaren have used a veto on that so you have to assume they are in this for the very long term.
There are rumours about that Ron is trying to put together a mega-deal with BMW that will see them come in to supply "powertrains" 
to both the racing and road car parts of McLaren which will of course mean the end of the Honda deal.
The way things are at the moment though, I'd be gobsmacked if BMW would want anything to do with F1 in its current state and as they supply all the course cars to FE, I would have thought that would be more likely place for their investment.
to both the racing and road car parts of McLaren which will of course mean the end of the Honda deal.The way things are at the moment though, I'd be gobsmacked if BMW would want anything to do with F1 in its current state and as they supply all the course cars to FE, I would have thought that would be more likely place for their investment.
dibbers006 said:
Electric Formula
Oh, is that this thing? http://www.fiaformulae.com/BMW are entering a car in that instead of F1?
Flooble said:
dibbers006 said:
Electric Formula
Oh, is that this thing? http://www.fiaformulae.com/BMW are entering a car in that instead of F1?
And as I mentioned they already have a limited link to the Formula as they supply most of the course cars.
The Hypno-Toad said:
Not at the moment but given their current push towards hybrid/electric road cars and the current mess that F1 is in, my own opinion is that it would make more sense for them from a marketing point of view.
And as I mentioned they already have a limited link to the Formula as they supply most of the course cars.
Ah, I see. Looking at the BMW Motorsport site they seem to mostly be interested in closed wheel racing (DTM, IWSC, GT. Although there is a "Formula BMW Experience" ...) I see they do the Safety Cars for DRM and MotoGP too - http://www.bmw-motorsport.com/en/cars/bmw-m4-dtm-h...And as I mentioned they already have a limited link to the Formula as they supply most of the course cars.
Not sure I'd fancy being the "Safety Bike" in MotoGP though. "Here, it's dangerous out there, hop on your bike and slow all those really good riders down ..."
The Hypno-Toad said:
There are rumours about that Ron is trying to put together a mega-deal with BMW that will see them come in to supply "powertrains" to both the racing and road car parts of McLaren which will of course mean the end of the Honda deal.
The way things are at the moment though, I'd be gobsmacked if BMW would want anything to do with F1 in its current state and as they supply all the course cars to FE, I would have thought that would be more likely place for their investment.
I don't think that would make sense for either application - BMW struggled last time they were in F1 and don't seem to have shown any interest since. And the road cars are doing pretty well with their own engines (OK, they aren't in house but they are proprietary McLaren units) and I would think buying them in would reduce the credibility of McLaren Automotive as a manufacturer. Ferrari don't buy Mercedes engines do they! to both the racing and road car parts of McLaren which will of course mean the end of the Honda deal.The way things are at the moment though, I'd be gobsmacked if BMW would want anything to do with F1 in its current state and as they supply all the course cars to FE, I would have thought that would be more likely place for their investment.
robinessex said:
McLaren gets Ricardo, their present engine supplier, to make them a F1 engine. And no, it's not as daft as it sounds. You'd be surprised at what bits of F1, engines, gearboxes, and other bits can be seen goin through their workshop.
Unfortunately it's every bit as daft as it sounds, how much do you think it would cost to develop a competitive F1 engine with today's regulations?RYH64E said:
Unfortunately it's every bit as daft as it sounds, how much do you think it would cost to develop a competitive F1 engine with today's regulations?
About £150 million, give or takehttp://www.pitpass.com/52739/Mercedes-spending-acc...
RYH64E said:
Unfortunately it's every bit as daft as it sounds, how much do you think it would cost to develop a competitive F1 engine with today's regulations?
Indeed. And also FWIW I've visited many of the suppliers of everything from brake disks to final drives in Motorsport and I can promise you that there's kit there for every F1 team from Ferrari to Force India, McLaren included.Funny world isn't it? I remember when Brian Hart used to make turbo 4cyl engines in a shed in Harlow !! In the days when they produced up to 1500bhp (depends who you believe though). Hart 415T produced a reported 750 bhp. Ayrton Senna took second place at the 1984 Monaco Grand Prix with it !! Todays F1 engines are pussy cats compared those ! God knows what they find to spend the money on considering the development is restricted
Edited by robinessex on Sunday 27th March 18:57
robinessex said:
Funny world isn't it? I remember when Brian Hart used to make turbo 4cyl engines in a shed in Harlow !! In the days when they produced up to 1500bhp (depends who you believe though). Hart 415T produced a reported 750 bhp. Ayrton Senna took second place at the 1984 Monaco Grand Prix with it !! Todays F1 engines are pussy cats compared those ! God knows what they find to spend the money on considering the development is restricted
When you look at those engines, they're so primitive. Geoff Page has made them reliable and far more tractable with modern engine management systems now. In fact, they're now producing the 600 bhp they were actually producing in that era, rather than the 750 bhp claimed.Edited by robinessex on Sunday 27th March 18:57
rubystone said:
robinessex said:
Funny world isn't it? I remember when Brian Hart used to make turbo 4cyl engines in a shed in Harlow !! In the days when they produced up to 1500bhp (depends who you believe though). Hart 415T produced a reported 750 bhp. Ayrton Senna took second place at the 1984 Monaco Grand Prix with it !! Todays F1 engines are pussy cats compared those ! God knows what they find to spend the money on considering the development is restricted
When you look at those engines, they're so primitive. Geoff Page has made them reliable and far more tractable with modern engine management systems now. In fact, they're now producing the 600 bhp they were actually producing in that era, rather than the 750 bhp claimed.Edited by robinessex on Sunday 27th March 18:57
robinessex said:
Primitive? In engine management maybe, but the basic engine design and materials are still the same. Did you know the Hart F1 4cyl engine had a one piece block/cyl head !! Ambitious for a man in a shed !!
Not engine management. Turbo installation, turbo ancillaries and 'exhaust'. The second gen engine was the one piece design and was much more reliable that the first.Gassing Station | Formula 1 | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff