Head injuries, what more can be done?
Discussion
.jpg/300px-Chieftain_Tank_(9628802829).jpg)
eccles said:
I can't help think all this is a bit of an over reaction. When you look at how many open cockpit racing formulas there are around the world and the numbers participating versus how many people die after being hit by debris, the figure is tiny.
No sport is 100% safe.
It's about mitigating risk. Racing in many formula's has become relatively safe that GP2 in particular seems to be where massive liberties are being taken with regards to driving standards. If the acceptable risk is watching Sir John Surtees breakdown while describing how Henry was killed, or another black front cover of Autosport with a tribute to Bianchi or Wilson, then I think I'm out.No sport is 100% safe.
I know all about the risk as most people reel in horror when I tell them I race a quad bike, but I don't want to see anymore decent human beings killed in the name of tradition.
I don't even know that the answer needs to be overly complicated.
Edited by marshall100 on Tuesday 1st September 10:32
I think that there is a strong argument now that many of the accidents occuring in open wheel formulae (at many levels) are due to drivers having a huge amount of disregard for their own safety PRECISELY because they feel pretty invulnerable in their modern cars.
The standards in GP2 this year have been very, very low and I am worried that we will have fatality in that series before long - despite the cars being safer than they ever have been.
The standards in GP2 this year have been very, very low and I am worried that we will have fatality in that series before long - despite the cars being safer than they ever have been.
I wouldn't object to LMP style roofs if it can be proven to be a step forward in safety. Interestingly, the move from open top to coupe in LMP2 was partly driven by amateur gentleman-drivers not being able to get insurance if they raced an open car.
There have been a lot of near misses in recent years, most going unreported. Max Chilton's cockpit was hit by Kimi's wheel at Silverstone in 2014. He was very, very lucky.
There have been a lot of near misses in recent years, most going unreported. Max Chilton's cockpit was hit by Kimi's wheel at Silverstone in 2014. He was very, very lucky.
ash73 said:
Interesting Merc concept
The issue with something like this, apart from visibility restrictions is that it won't stop something small like a bolt or a spring though it might have saved Jules Bianchi, Justin Wilson or maybe Marie De Villota. I guess we'll never know, but I don't think the 'we shouldn't do anything, they know the risks, its as safe as it can be already' argument is acceptable any more. Something must be done. Yes - stop motor sport altogether. That would eliminate the risk entirely.
What level of risk would you be comfortable with?
The "we've got to do something" mantra is our society's nemesis. Before long we will have neutered our world to such an extent that the risk taking aspect of humanity will be so eradicated that we may not be "humanity" at all.
My argument is "we've got to do nothing". and let them get on with it. If the activity is too difficult for you to enjoy - take an interest in some risk free activity, like tiddlywinks or knitting (although even knitting needles can be deadly, come to think of it).
What level of risk would you be comfortable with?
The "we've got to do something" mantra is our society's nemesis. Before long we will have neutered our world to such an extent that the risk taking aspect of humanity will be so eradicated that we may not be "humanity" at all.
My argument is "we've got to do nothing". and let them get on with it. If the activity is too difficult for you to enjoy - take an interest in some risk free activity, like tiddlywinks or knitting (although even knitting needles can be deadly, come to think of it).
Eric Mc said:
Yes - stop motor sport altogether. That would eliminate the risk entirely.
What level of risk would you be comfortable with?
The "we've got to do something" mantra is our society's nemesis. Before long we will have neutered our world to such an extent that the risk taking aspect of humanity will be so eradicated that we may not be "humanity" at all.
My argument is "we've got to do nothing". and let them get on with it. If the activity is too difficult for you to enjoy - take an interest in some risk free activity, like tiddlywinks or knitting (although even knitting needles can be deadly, come to think of it).
So would it be ok if we still had 1960's levels of driver and spectator protection? What level of risk would you be comfortable with?
The "we've got to do something" mantra is our society's nemesis. Before long we will have neutered our world to such an extent that the risk taking aspect of humanity will be so eradicated that we may not be "humanity" at all.
My argument is "we've got to do nothing". and let them get on with it. If the activity is too difficult for you to enjoy - take an interest in some risk free activity, like tiddlywinks or knitting (although even knitting needles can be deadly, come to think of it).
Every safety improvement that has been made to racing cars has been as a result of people sustaining injury of a particular kind, prompting efforts to eliminate them in the future.
We have had far too many people recently suffering head injuries and I think it is only right that ways are found to reduce them in the future.
If we didnt have this attitude to safety then countless other drivers would have been lost over the years and who honestly can say that they would be fine with that?
Where do we stop?
I wouldn't want to return to the 1960s but I don't see that trying to eliminate EVERY potential fatal accident situation is going to improve the sport much from where it is now.
How do you feel about motor cycle racing? Should they race in a closed type cage as well?
Motor sport is actually falling in popularity. If we neuter it even more, it may very well disappear as a mass spectator activity.
We need to be realistic - not over-reactive.
I wouldn't want to return to the 1960s but I don't see that trying to eliminate EVERY potential fatal accident situation is going to improve the sport much from where it is now.
How do you feel about motor cycle racing? Should they race in a closed type cage as well?
Motor sport is actually falling in popularity. If we neuter it even more, it may very well disappear as a mass spectator activity.
We need to be realistic - not over-reactive.
glazbagun said:
Does anyone know what actually is the leading cause of injury?
It is not the impact per-se but the rapid deceleration and it's effect on the brain inside the skull, continuing to move forward at a rapid rate when the head has stopped. I believe Bianchi's crash helmet was intact, as was Wilson's and that of Henry Surtees.I posted a photo earlier of Stefan Bellof in a very exposed Tyrrell. He was killed in a very enclosed sports car. Although 35 odd years ago, this does suggest that enclosed canopies would not necessarily be the saviour some think.
Whilst the pursuit of risk minimisation is to be applauded, it must be balanced with the fact that to pursue risk elimination is a fruitless exercise. A cricketer died earlier this year as a result of injuries sustained during a game yet I hear no cries for full face helmets for batsmen. How many people die or seriously injure themselves by choosing to hurl themselves out of perfectly healthy aeroplanes and I assume that the statistic that Coarse Angling takes more lives than any other leisure pursuit still holds true.
Eric Mc said:
Where do we stop?
I wouldn't want to return to the 1960s but I don't see that trying to eliminate EVERY potential fatal accident situation is going to improve the sport much from where it is now.
How do you feel about motor cycle racing? Should they race in a closed type cage as well?
Motor sport is actually falling in popularity. If we neuter it even more, it may very well disappear as a mass spectator activity.
We need to be realistic - not over-reactive.
It will be improved if the number of head injuries are reduced IMO. If it is possible to protect against such injuries while maintaining the essence of high speed competition then I'm all for it. I wouldn't want to return to the 1960s but I don't see that trying to eliminate EVERY potential fatal accident situation is going to improve the sport much from where it is now.
How do you feel about motor cycle racing? Should they race in a closed type cage as well?
Motor sport is actually falling in popularity. If we neuter it even more, it may very well disappear as a mass spectator activity.
We need to be realistic - not over-reactive.
I take your point about motorbikes and acknowledge that there are many many dangerous activities that people partake in. Even in Moto GP safety improvements are made where possible. there are perhaps fewer opportunities to implement safety features on a bike.
I guess viewpoints will differ according to people's perception and acceptance of risk but personally I dont want to see anyone suffer for my Sunday afternoon's entertainment.
24lemons said:
It will be improved if the number of head injuries are reduced IMO. If it is possible to protect against such injuries while maintaining the essence of high speed competition then I'm all for it.
I take your point about motorbikes and acknowledge that there are many many dangerous activities that people partake in. Even in Moto GP safety improvements are made where possible. there are perhaps fewer opportunities to implement safety features on a bike.
I guess viewpoints will differ according to people's perception and acceptance of risk but personally I dont want to see anyone suffer for my Sunday afternoon's entertainment.
Neither do I.I take your point about motorbikes and acknowledge that there are many many dangerous activities that people partake in. Even in Moto GP safety improvements are made where possible. there are perhaps fewer opportunities to implement safety features on a bike.
I guess viewpoints will differ according to people's perception and acceptance of risk but personally I dont want to see anyone suffer for my Sunday afternoon's entertainment.
But I also don't want the sport to be so sanitised and neutralised that it loses any more than it has already lost.
Motorsport is on the verge of "safing" itself out of existence - if it doesn't take heed.
There is a point where you will get diminishing returns and I think we are close to this point - if we haven't already passed it.
24lemons said:
We have had far too many people recently suffering head injuries and I think it is only right that ways are found to reduce them in the future.
That's just it though, we haven't had many people suffering head injuries. Two of the ones being quoted hit stuff that wasn't meant to be hit (lorries/recovery vehicles). Massa was the last one who was injured in F1, and that was years ago. Amongst all the other open cockpit formulas all over the world there is hardly a steady stream of head injuries each season. Generally someone getting injured is a one off freak accident, and legistating against those is notoriously difficult.
Don't get me wrong, I'm all for safety. Things like the roll out of HANS devices to lower formulas is a great idea, but there are some things you can't protect from without taking away the whole essence of the sport.
100% agree.
Ironically, the way modern cars disintegrate on impact with walls and barriers is part of their designed in safety - and as a result we get bits flying all over the place.
30 or 40 years ago, poor Justin Wilson probably wouldn't have been hit by a flying nose cone - although the driver of the car that hit the wall might have been seriously injured or killed from impact injuries or fire.
Ironically, the way modern cars disintegrate on impact with walls and barriers is part of their designed in safety - and as a result we get bits flying all over the place.
30 or 40 years ago, poor Justin Wilson probably wouldn't have been hit by a flying nose cone - although the driver of the car that hit the wall might have been seriously injured or killed from impact injuries or fire.
Gassing Station | Formula 1 | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff