Redbull not to use Renault engines in 2016
Discussion
Inertiatic said:
Right....
So Lotus are to become Renault. Lauda has said that it is possible that Merc will assist Renault with the transition back to a full race tean, including hybrid assistance (they want Renault to stay and be comptetive). Also suggests that Lotus will return to Renault next year as Manor have their engine slot.
So Red Bull could have really shot their bolt a year early. Renault could well start to improve their game, especially if development is opened up for 2016 as is being pushed for.
Yes but no.So Lotus are to become Renault. Lauda has said that it is possible that Merc will assist Renault with the transition back to a full race tean, including hybrid assistance (they want Renault to stay and be comptetive). Also suggests that Lotus will return to Renault next year as Manor have their engine slot.
So Red Bull could have really shot their bolt a year early. Renault could well start to improve their game, especially if development is opened up for 2016 as is being pushed for.
Mercedes are prepared to help Renault; they were not prepared to help Red Bull.
Scuffers said:
rubystone said:
Horner is a decent bloke actually.
Really?Based on his personal behavior, i would beg to differ...
On a personality note, the only one that's been involved in f1 that I didn't take to, from TV/media, was flavio.
Everyone is just doing their job. They'll change their tune on any aspect as it suits them which is to be expected and I'm not surprised. Sure it makes people look like dicks but that's because their job is naturally entirely self serving. Until that changes and the people involved in the sport across the board put the need of the sport above their own then it will continue to disappear up it's own arse.
Of course, twas ever thus but it really is in dire need of a reset at the moment after which the political shenanigans can begin again, albeit hopefully with a bit more of a focus on the long term rather than short term monetary gain.
This has nothing to do with Mercedes dominating, it's a problem that has been coming to a head for the last decade at least.
Credit where it's due, after some of the comments from Mercedes this weekend they seem to grasp this and help out by conceding things but the problem runs much deeper than anything they can do.
I know I'm just repeating what's already been said a thousand times, and with a hefty pinch of naivety, but f1 has become SO bloody dull in SO many aspects, not just the on track action it's interminably frustrating.
Everyone is just doing their job. They'll change their tune on any aspect as it suits them which is to be expected and I'm not surprised. Sure it makes people look like dicks but that's because their job is naturally entirely self serving. Until that changes and the people involved in the sport across the board put the need of the sport above their own then it will continue to disappear up it's own arse.
Of course, twas ever thus but it really is in dire need of a reset at the moment after which the political shenanigans can begin again, albeit hopefully with a bit more of a focus on the long term rather than short term monetary gain.
This has nothing to do with Mercedes dominating, it's a problem that has been coming to a head for the last decade at least.
Credit where it's due, after some of the comments from Mercedes this weekend they seem to grasp this and help out by conceding things but the problem runs much deeper than anything they can do.
I know I'm just repeating what's already been said a thousand times, and with a hefty pinch of naivety, but f1 has become SO bloody dull in SO many aspects, not just the on track action it's interminably frustrating.
If Red Bull do leave I wonder whether it would be good for McLaren?
Adrian Newey may be out of reach if Red Bull come good on their promise to let him design other s
t outside of F1, but there will be other key personnel and sponsors looking for a new home - even Red Bull as a minor sponsor?
Haas may benefit too.
Adrian Newey may be out of reach if Red Bull come good on their promise to let him design other s
t outside of F1, but there will be other key personnel and sponsors looking for a new home - even Red Bull as a minor sponsor?Haas may benefit too.
Emeye said:
If Red Bull do leave I wonder whether it would be good for McLaren?
Adrian Newey may be out of reach if Red Bull come good on their promise to let him design other st outside of F1, but there will be other key personnel and sponsors looking for a new home - even Red Bull as a minor sponsor?
Haas may benefit too.
more likely good for Renault...Adrian Newey may be out of reach if Red Bull come good on their promise to let him design other s
t outside of F1, but there will be other key personnel and sponsors looking for a new home - even Red Bull as a minor sponsor?Haas may benefit too.
rohrl said:
Munter said:
Newey has been out the door for over a year hasn't he?
He's still employed by Red Bull and I'm sure I saw him on TV at an F1 race recently.London424 said:
rohrl said:
Munter said:
Newey has been out the door for over a year hasn't he?
He's still employed by Red Bull and I'm sure I saw him on TV at an F1 race recently.Just reading the Loeb Dakar story - that car and team is all Red Bull branded, but not sure who designs the car.
Along with this and the VW WRC Polo, Red Bull have their fingers in almost every motorsport pie!
Do they sponsor anyone in Le mans?
Andrew Benson has some words on the RB / Renault relationship
the bit about RB apparantly funding some engine devolopment by Ilmor makes interesting reading (if true !)
the bit about RB apparantly funding some engine devolopment by Ilmor makes interesting reading (if true !)
And from that highly reliable source ( that was sarcasm by the way )....
http://www.f1today.net/en/news/205637/ferrari-new-...
http://www.f1today.net/en/news/205637/ferrari-new-...
MartG said:
And from that highly reliable source ( that was sarcasm by the way )....
http://www.f1today.net/en/news/205637/ferrari-new-...
Toro Rosso getting 2015 Ferrari engines next year, according to the article.http://www.f1today.net/en/news/205637/ferrari-new-...
I wonder if Red Bull will be have any luck getting hold of a 2016 unit? I'm sure there's a lot of arm-twisting, special pleading and implied threatening going on behind the scenes.
Emeye said:
He was supposed to be busy designing super racing yachts or summat, but I think he got dragged back to be more involved in the F1 team as they were struggling last year.
Just reading the Loeb Dakar story - that car and team is all Red Bull branded, but not sure who designs the car.
Along with this and the VW WRC Polo, Red Bull have their fingers in almost every motorsport pie!
Do they sponsor anyone in Le mans?
There's a couple of RB drivers in WEC, including Webber.Just reading the Loeb Dakar story - that car and team is all Red Bull branded, but not sure who designs the car.
Along with this and the VW WRC Polo, Red Bull have their fingers in almost every motorsport pie!
Do they sponsor anyone in Le mans?
rohrl said:
MartG said:
And from that highly reliable source ( that was sarcasm by the way )....
http://www.f1today.net/en/news/205637/ferrari-new-...
Toro Rosso getting 2015 Ferrari engines next year, according to the article.http://www.f1today.net/en/news/205637/ferrari-new-...
I wonder if Red Bull will be have any luck getting hold of a 2016 unit? I'm sure there's a lot of arm-twisting, special pleading and implied threatening going on behind the scenes.
London424 said:
They have a pretty bad bargaining position though don't they!?
Oh absolutely. The engine manufacturers are holding all the cards. Red Bull can threaten to leave and Bernie can threaten to cut their TV time but when all's said and done Ferrari and Mercedes (assuming the bridges to Renault are burned and Honda aren't in a position to supply) are under no obligation to give Red Bull anything.If RB end up with a 2015 Ferrari unit they'll only have themselves to blame and if Mateschitz pulls the plug then Formula One will carry on without them.
I think I heard that Red Bull are locked into F1 until 2020 anyway and it would cost them £500M if they pulled out.
TJ13 has been informed, since Singapore, Red Bull are now seriously considering not dissolving their 2016 engine power supply agreement with Renault.
Were Renault to unilaterally breach their agreement for 2016 with Red Bull the cost would be astronomic. So despite Carlos Ghosn’s grandstanding at the Frankfurt motor show where he claimed, “We said very clearly, it’s finished,” referring to Renault’s position as an F1 engine supplier.
“We already alerted the Formula 1 authorities: ‘Don’t count on us as a provider of an engine. It’s over’. We will honour our contracts, no problem, but the occasion of Renault as a developer and supplier of engines stops”.
However, Ghosn confirmed the dissolution of their current contracts is not finalised: “I think we are today renegotiating the contracts, so it’s too early to say what’s going to be the conclusion of the contract.
“We [Renault] will either exit or run our own team. We don’t have a clear decision yet.”
Red Bull can’t afford to drop out of F1 for a year while they develop their own power unit, the breach of contract with FOM would cost hundreds of millions.
And so their choice is simple. Ferrari ‘B’ engine or have one last baby together with Renault.
Were Renault to unilaterally breach their agreement for 2016 with Red Bull the cost would be astronomic. So despite Carlos Ghosn’s grandstanding at the Frankfurt motor show where he claimed, “We said very clearly, it’s finished,” referring to Renault’s position as an F1 engine supplier.
“We already alerted the Formula 1 authorities: ‘Don’t count on us as a provider of an engine. It’s over’. We will honour our contracts, no problem, but the occasion of Renault as a developer and supplier of engines stops”.
However, Ghosn confirmed the dissolution of their current contracts is not finalised: “I think we are today renegotiating the contracts, so it’s too early to say what’s going to be the conclusion of the contract.
“We [Renault] will either exit or run our own team. We don’t have a clear decision yet.”
Red Bull can’t afford to drop out of F1 for a year while they develop their own power unit, the breach of contract with FOM would cost hundreds of millions.
And so their choice is simple. Ferrari ‘B’ engine or have one last baby together with Renault.
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