Redbull not to use Renault engines in 2016

[JonRB]

suffolk009 said:

I doubt that Bernie's idea of "it's all sorted", matches yours or mine.

Bernie's idea of "all sorted" is that he has been given a sttonne of cash.

[williamp]

if a competitior wanted to use my engines, I think I would rather keep them to myself then give them the latest version (the one I am using). Unless they deliver 2015 engines on Dec 31st 2015, so the red bull engines are "current" for that year. Just not for the forthcoming year

[Vaud]

Same spec, or same spec AND controls?

Toto said they had offered a spec engine but with fewer control options and no-one wanted it.

Could a works engine with less flexibility be allowed still?

[VolvoT5]

Interesting that the likes of Mercedes and Ferrari are unwilling to supply Redbull with up to date engines.......... I guess I can understand why but in one way if they fear getting beat by their own engine in a customer car it doesn't say much about the confidence in their own ability does it?

[Composite Guru]

VolvoT5 said:

Interesting that the likes of Mercedes and Ferrari are unwilling to supply Redbull with up to date engines.......... I guess I can understand why but in one way if they fear getting beat by their own engine in a customer car it doesn't say much about the confidence in their own ability does it?

Too true. They can't be having that happen.

[Vaud]

VolvoT5 said:

Interesting that the likes of Mercedes and Ferrari are unwilling to supply Redbull with up to date engines.......... I guess I can understand why but in one way if they fear getting beat by their own engine in a customer car it doesn't say much about the confidence in their own ability does it?

I think most people would fear Newey + their engine.

[MartG]

VolvoT5 said:

Interesting that the likes of Mercedes and Ferrari are unwilling to supply Redbull with up to date engines.......... I guess I can understand why but in one way if they fear getting beat by their own engine in a customer car it doesn't say much about the confidence in their own ability does it?

Why risk it when you don't have to - especially if you've sunk millions into your own team to advertise your own brand. It's the converse argument to the one Red Bull are using about not winning affecting their brand.

[aeropilot]

I'm beginning to think more and more than that Red Bull had done the deal with VAG in all but a signed and sealed official announcement hence their lack of concern about phissing off Renault during the year, and VAG's con artist trick in the USA has now furbar'd them completely...?

[LivewareProblem]

Or Renault have decided to scrap the Lotus buyout and offer RedBull a get out of jail free card by using them as the new works team?

That way they don't have to pay the ludicrous fine for leaving early and Renault get a well sorted team that only need an engine with the option of getting hold of a "Junior" team also?

[Composite Guru]

aeropilot said:

I'm beginning to think more and more than that Red Bull had done the deal with VAG in all but a signed and sealed official announcement hence their lack of concern about phissing off Renault during the year, and VAG's con artist trick in the USA has now furbar'd them completely...?

If VAG had any intension of getting into F1 then they will still. F1 is a drop in the ocean compared to the figures that company brings in every year.

[marshall100]

Whats stop a customer going and taking say the Ferrari customer engine and spending their own tokens developing it?

Not sure you could do it with the Merc unit after Mercedes increased the stake in Illmor, it's not very clear who owns them anymore...

[JonRB]

marshall100 said:

Whats stop a customer going and taking say the Ferrari customer engine and spending their own tokens developing it?

I would imagine the word "customer" is what would stop them.

If you have a customer engine you have bought it as a customer. You're not an engine manufacturer and you don't have any tokens.

[HTP99]

JonRB said:

marshall100 said:

Whats stop a customer going and taking say the Ferrari customer engine and spending their own tokens developing it?

I would imagine the word "customer" is what would stop them.

If you have a customer engine you have bought it as a customer. You're not an engine manufacturer and you don't have any tokens.

Plus I would imagine the engine manufacturer being none too pleased about their customer pissing about with their engine.

[spats]

Having heard Redbulls newest approach to the problem by effectively calling Merc and Ferrari scaredy cats for not wanting to be beaten by their own engines, wont win any hearts or minds at either camp.

In fact it just helps concrete that their decision to not supply them is the right one, even if it means loosing RB.

[Scuffers]

MartG said:

VolvoT5 said:

Interesting that the likes of Mercedes and Ferrari are unwilling to supply Redbull with up to date engines.......... I guess I can understand why but in one way if they fear getting beat by their own engine in a customer car it doesn't say much about the confidence in their own ability does it?

Why risk it when you don't have to - especially if you've sunk millions into your own team to advertise your own brand. It's the converse argument to the one Red Bull are using about not winning affecting their brand.

I don't think that's actually their issue, I think they are more concerned with having to deal with RB's management and bullst.

As Renault have said, in all the years they were winning with Renault, they never got a mention, soon as the going get's tough, they st all over them very publically.

Nobody want's a st for a customer.

aeropilot said:

I'm beginning to think more and more than that Red Bull had done the deal with VAG in all but a signed and sealed official announcement hence their lack of concern about phissing off Renault during the year, and VAG's con artist trick in the USA has now furbar'd them completely...?

no chance, even if VAG wanted to, they would need a 18-24 month development to come up with the bear minimum spec, and with no tokens any more, they would be suicidal to do this in anything like a hurry.

[Vaud]

Scuffers said:

no chance, even if VAG wanted to, they would need a 18-24 month development to come up with the bear minimum spec, and with no tokens any more, they would be suicidal to do this in anything like a hurry.

Do you think they will wait for the 2020 regs?

[NRS]

Scuffers said:

MartG said:

VolvoT5 said:

Interesting that the likes of Mercedes and Ferrari are unwilling to supply Redbull with up to date engines.......... I guess I can understand why but in one way if they fear getting beat by their own engine in a customer car it doesn't say much about the confidence in their own ability does it?

Why risk it when you don't have to - especially if you've sunk millions into your own team to advertise your own brand. It's the converse argument to the one Red Bull are using about not winning affecting their brand.

I don't think that's actually their issue, I think they are more concerned with having to deal with RB's management and bullst.

As Renault have said, in all the years they were winning with Renault, they never got a mention, soon as the going get's tough, they st all over them very publically.

Nobody want's a st for a customer.

Have to agree. In effect Mercedes (and to a lesser extent in some ways Ferrari too) is in F1 for the advertising. If Mercedes thought they would get a lot of advertising through Red Bull competing with their engine they'd have to consider it strongly, even if it meant their team losing. It would also open the possibility of cutting costs and removing their own team if they wanted. However when they will gain no advertising in the good times and just get mentioned during the bad times it's of no benefit to them.

Let alone meaning you have to work with those type of people personally on a day to day basis.

[Scuffers]

NRS said:

Have to agree. In effect Mercedes (and to a lesser extent in some ways Ferrari too) is in F1 for the advertising. If Mercedes thought they would get a lot of advertising through Red Bull competing with their engine they'd have to consider it strongly, even if it meant their team losing. It would also open the possibility of cutting costs and removing their own team if they wanted. However when they will gain no advertising in the good times and just get mentioned during the bad times it's of no benefit to them.

Let alone meaning you have to work with those type of people personally on a day to day basis.

if you think about it, Merc have no issue supplying their road car engines to other OEM's, like Zonda, and Aston Martin....

the difference is they will get the credit for them.

[MartG]

spats said:

Having heard Redbulls newest approach to the problem by effectively calling Merc and Ferrari scaredy cats for not wanting to be beaten by their own engines, wont win any hearts or minds at either camp.

In fact it just helps concrete that their decision to not supply them is the right one, even if it means loosing RB.

[Derek Smith]

The negotiations between RB and merc went on for some time, if reports are to be believed, and I wondered if one stumbling block might have been calling RB Red Bull Mercedes given Renault's caomplaint about not receiving credit when they were part of the winning package.