Would you work in F1?
Discussion
I'm fortunate/crazy enough to work in F1.
On the one hand it is very cool, and working for the team I have followed since childhood and fulfilling an ambition is very rewarding.
But... The money is crap. At least at my team. We pay way below the going rate at 'motorsport valley' teams, and it's expected that we will still get the staff because of the 'prestige' of working for a historically big team. Unfortunately we're not doing so well lately and the poor pay is beginning to bite them on the ass, as people are leaving for the massive pay rise available just by moving to another team. We can't attract experienced staff from elsewhere - just graduates or chancers who don't exactly help the situation. Morale is low because the pay is poor and we know people doing the same job elsewhere are getting paid >£15k more.. The attitude from management is if you don't like it you know where the door is, and they have a hundred people every month applying for each job, even if we're not recruiting.
All this is amplified by the fact we are based in the most expensive part of the country to live in, and personally I cannot afford to buy my first property in Surrey because it's crazy prices around here, so I'm looking at at least an hours commute either side of a minimum 14 hour day.
On an average Sunday I wake up at 3.30am and get home from work about 9.15pm. It's a long day! That said it's only a 4 day week, because the hours are compressed into a few long days. Yet everyone does at least 2 days overtime to make up the money needed to live in this part of the country.
It really takes a certain type of person to work in F1 and be successful. It's certainly not glamorous, and the money in the sport doesn't really trickle down to the guys at the factory doing the real work.
Also, you see that the media is full of crap. 99% of what I read about my team is completely made up or so far removed from any context that it's laughable. The real news is often incredibly complex with so much politics going on that the casual fan wouldn't understand it.
It's so frustrating reading the stuff that people write on here too, F1 is way more complex than many people on here seem to be aware of!
Despite all this, I love working in F1. No other motorsport comes close.
On the one hand it is very cool, and working for the team I have followed since childhood and fulfilling an ambition is very rewarding.
But... The money is crap. At least at my team. We pay way below the going rate at 'motorsport valley' teams, and it's expected that we will still get the staff because of the 'prestige' of working for a historically big team. Unfortunately we're not doing so well lately and the poor pay is beginning to bite them on the ass, as people are leaving for the massive pay rise available just by moving to another team. We can't attract experienced staff from elsewhere - just graduates or chancers who don't exactly help the situation. Morale is low because the pay is poor and we know people doing the same job elsewhere are getting paid >£15k more.. The attitude from management is if you don't like it you know where the door is, and they have a hundred people every month applying for each job, even if we're not recruiting.
All this is amplified by the fact we are based in the most expensive part of the country to live in, and personally I cannot afford to buy my first property in Surrey because it's crazy prices around here, so I'm looking at at least an hours commute either side of a minimum 14 hour day.
On an average Sunday I wake up at 3.30am and get home from work about 9.15pm. It's a long day! That said it's only a 4 day week, because the hours are compressed into a few long days. Yet everyone does at least 2 days overtime to make up the money needed to live in this part of the country.
It really takes a certain type of person to work in F1 and be successful. It's certainly not glamorous, and the money in the sport doesn't really trickle down to the guys at the factory doing the real work.
Also, you see that the media is full of crap. 99% of what I read about my team is completely made up or so far removed from any context that it's laughable. The real news is often incredibly complex with so much politics going on that the casual fan wouldn't understand it.
It's so frustrating reading the stuff that people write on here too, F1 is way more complex than many people on here seem to be aware of!
Despite all this, I love working in F1. No other motorsport comes close.
Otispunkmeyer said:
citizensm1th said:
Otispunkmeyer said:
Did you do your PhD at Loughborough? BTW, thank you all (so far) for the sensible posts. I was worried it would be derailed at some point. Thanks too to those who have worked or are still working in/for F1 and have chimed in with their experiences; very useful insights. Good luck to those guys getting interviewed hope you get the jobs you want!
Edited by Otispunkmeyer on Tuesday 6th October 22:52
He also likes to shoot white stuff at other men at the weekends (if you get that reference we do know each other)
So the basic answer seems to be that people want to work in F1 because of what it is, and some (most?) of them will put up with crap hours and pay because of it. It sounds a lot like some talented people are having their employer take the piss because they can, because 'F1'.
Personally I don't find novelty lasts very long as a reason to do a job. And that's when you get to actually play with the toys, not just look at someone else playing with them. Whatever it is you're playing with, however cool it sounds, and even if people would be willing to pay a lot of money to do the same; if it's 'work' then after a while there isn't any particular attraction to it. Same thing with travelling the world, it's interesting to go places but after a while even exotic destinations, nice hotels and a fat per diem aren't that attractive compared to just having a life outside work to do what you want when you want.
Basically it has to boil down to whether the work is interesting/challenging, do you feel valued for your contribution, do you feel secure in your role, are you being paid properly for your contribution and is the work/life balance right. Otherwise what's the point?
Personally I don't find novelty lasts very long as a reason to do a job. And that's when you get to actually play with the toys, not just look at someone else playing with them. Whatever it is you're playing with, however cool it sounds, and even if people would be willing to pay a lot of money to do the same; if it's 'work' then after a while there isn't any particular attraction to it. Same thing with travelling the world, it's interesting to go places but after a while even exotic destinations, nice hotels and a fat per diem aren't that attractive compared to just having a life outside work to do what you want when you want.
Basically it has to boil down to whether the work is interesting/challenging, do you feel valued for your contribution, do you feel secure in your role, are you being paid properly for your contribution and is the work/life balance right. Otherwise what's the point?
citizensm1th said:
Otispunkmeyer said:
citizensm1th said:
Otispunkmeyer said:
Did you do your PhD at Loughborough? BTW, thank you all (so far) for the sensible posts. I was worried it would be derailed at some point. Thanks too to those who have worked or are still working in/for F1 and have chimed in with their experiences; very useful insights. Good luck to those guys getting interviewed hope you get the jobs you want!
Edited by Otispunkmeyer on Tuesday 6th October 22:52
He also likes to shoot white stuff at other men at the weekends (if you get that reference we do know each other)
Trying to think who you are now...!
Edited by Otispunkmeyer on Thursday 8th October 10:25
Edited by Otispunkmeyer on Thursday 8th October 10:27
The guys who work for a couple of years and the lifers is a truism. I know someone who worked in WTCC and that was tough! Travelling the world and putting in the hours back at base which included fettling about with a Nissan Juke & GTR innards. I know another guy who should be enjoying retirement but works for Manor.
On another forum there's a guy who still manages races in clubbies during off weekends who day job is(IIRC) data engineer for Strakka Racing in WEC.
On another forum there's a guy who still manages races in clubbies during off weekends who day job is(IIRC) data engineer for Strakka Racing in WEC.
I work in historic motorsport, mainly F1 at the moment but also with sports cars, GT and touring cars. The workload is relentless. If you want a normal work/life balance then from my experience you wont last long or wont be successful in motorsport. It's not a job, it's a way of life and is all consuming.
When not working (which is not very often), I find myself competing in sprints to relax.
Motorsport for those who are really engrossed in it is an illness that cant be cured. Don't try and justify it from a money/time/free time basis because it doesn't make any sense.
When not working (which is not very often), I find myself competing in sprints to relax.
Motorsport for those who are really engrossed in it is an illness that cant be cured. Don't try and justify it from a money/time/free time basis because it doesn't make any sense.
DeltonaS said:
Muzzer79 said:
The drivers are paid according to demand.
Most nowadays actually don't earn that much. I'm talking the Maldonado, Verstappen, Sainz & Ericssons of this world. Either because they're young and inexperienced, or they get paid by their sponsors.
There's then a middle bracket of reasonable earners - low-ish millions per year, in which I include Button, Massa, Ricciardo, Rosberg and probably now Raikkonen.
Only the top few get multi-multi million deals - Hamilton, Alonso and Vettel are currently the only ones in this bracket I think.
It's easy to say they get too much, but there's very few people in the world who can drive an F1 car fast and even fewer who are the fastest.
Rosberg and Kimi are in the top category as well with £9,5M and €18M respectively, and Button isn't doing to bad either with £7M (I've heard £6M too).Most nowadays actually don't earn that much. I'm talking the Maldonado, Verstappen, Sainz & Ericssons of this world. Either because they're young and inexperienced, or they get paid by their sponsors.
There's then a middle bracket of reasonable earners - low-ish millions per year, in which I include Button, Massa, Ricciardo, Rosberg and probably now Raikkonen.
Only the top few get multi-multi million deals - Hamilton, Alonso and Vettel are currently the only ones in this bracket I think.
It's easy to say they get too much, but there's very few people in the world who can drive an F1 car fast and even fewer who are the fastest.
Complete list (if correct):
http://www.grandprixtimes.com/news/display/10530
Great thread by the way.
I wouldn't seek it out, saw a job advertised once very average pay, and didn't apply, from my experience at club level racing I bet you see nothing of the race, and having had jobs with serious travel I would imagine f1 would be the pits, I've seen loads of the world on weekends by delaying my travel home, by definition F1 means working the weekend.
Having said that the few people I've known in my life who have worked there loved it, if you need the ask the question then the answer is no don't work in f1
Having said that the few people I've known in my life who have worked there loved it, if you need the ask the question then the answer is no don't work in f1
Interesting thread.
I've been an F1 nut since I was a kid (now 29)
I would love to work within the industry and also have a couple of friends who currently do.
I know a development driver personally for a well known team and it's true about the hours etc, you need to be FULLY committed or not committed at all. The work loads seems to be very much but I guess that's expected the the top end of motorsport.
But like someone said he has missed weddings (mine and his cousins) births, birthdays etc because he is all over the world (Currently Sochi)
Another lad I know is a "Facilities Manager" or F1 Janitor as I call him. His job can range from hoovering, gardening to fetching materials etc. Very varied. Again not paid greatly but he loves the environment,people ect. He work's odd hours and is not a stranger to 70+ hour weeks
I've been an F1 nut since I was a kid (now 29)
I would love to work within the industry and also have a couple of friends who currently do.
I know a development driver personally for a well known team and it's true about the hours etc, you need to be FULLY committed or not committed at all. The work loads seems to be very much but I guess that's expected the the top end of motorsport.
But like someone said he has missed weddings (mine and his cousins) births, birthdays etc because he is all over the world (Currently Sochi)
Another lad I know is a "Facilities Manager" or F1 Janitor as I call him. His job can range from hoovering, gardening to fetching materials etc. Very varied. Again not paid greatly but he loves the environment,people ect. He work's odd hours and is not a stranger to 70+ hour weeks
My Italian brother in law worked for Ferrari during the Schumacher era and he was almost working around the clock, it was hard work but he enjoyed it. He was painting the cars, so was based at the factory. The money was good and there were, and still are, a lot of Brits working there as most of them work on the composites. I applied to work there last year as i like the idea of seasonal work which means off season i can do my own thing. At the moment i'm working for Lamborghini and am really enjoying it, but i would be prepared to move to Ferrari.
On another note, i have a mate, a Brit, who works for Ferrari engineering, they do the Formula 1 engines. He's the guy who makes the Turbo systems for the cars. His boss is Piero Ferrari and he loves working there. The money is good and the pressure is very intense but he loves the Italian life style and they, the Italians, appreciate what he can bring to the table, skill wise.
On another note, i have a mate, a Brit, who works for Ferrari engineering, they do the Formula 1 engines. He's the guy who makes the Turbo systems for the cars. His boss is Piero Ferrari and he loves working there. The money is good and the pressure is very intense but he loves the Italian life style and they, the Italians, appreciate what he can bring to the table, skill wise.
I used to work in F1 as a designer, tried two different teams (at opposite ends of the grid) and hated both.
As others have said, the pay is rubbish and hours are ridiculous. I had a love of Motorsport and engineering so was desperate to get into F1. Trouble was I'd already worked in engineering before I got my F1 'break' so I knew what normal working & pay conditions were like. A lot of my colleagues had joined F1 straight from university, so had no idea of the outside world - for example at one team we got a free breakfast on a Saturday or Sunday (unpaid of course, and Saturday wasn't particularly optional) and this was seen as a good deal by some of my colleagues!
As a designer it killed me with boredom. Past 6pm I would never do anything constructive, having been in since 7.30am I was sick of CAD, but you're expected to stay till at least 7/8pm. But there's people queuing up for your job, or as I was told in my exit interview 'why do want to leave F1? It's an incredible career, we could sell your job on eBay for thousands!'.
There were some perks; I got to go to tests, have a go in the sim but your talking once every 6 months. It's not worth it for the effort you put in.
I still work in the automotive industry, but not Motorsport. It's so much better actually having a company that values you personally. Plus I actually have time to watch the F1 races now!
As others have said, the pay is rubbish and hours are ridiculous. I had a love of Motorsport and engineering so was desperate to get into F1. Trouble was I'd already worked in engineering before I got my F1 'break' so I knew what normal working & pay conditions were like. A lot of my colleagues had joined F1 straight from university, so had no idea of the outside world - for example at one team we got a free breakfast on a Saturday or Sunday (unpaid of course, and Saturday wasn't particularly optional) and this was seen as a good deal by some of my colleagues!
As a designer it killed me with boredom. Past 6pm I would never do anything constructive, having been in since 7.30am I was sick of CAD, but you're expected to stay till at least 7/8pm. But there's people queuing up for your job, or as I was told in my exit interview 'why do want to leave F1? It's an incredible career, we could sell your job on eBay for thousands!'.
There were some perks; I got to go to tests, have a go in the sim but your talking once every 6 months. It's not worth it for the effort you put in.
I still work in the automotive industry, but not Motorsport. It's so much better actually having a company that values you personally. Plus I actually have time to watch the F1 races now!
I'd love to work in F1.
I'm a software engineer (not the brainiest kid around, so I doubt I will ever be given a chance).
I'm not sure if I'd like the job - based on what people have said here - however it's got to be worth a try. Even if I did it for a year, it's an opportunity of a lifetime and I'd love to experience it.
I'm a software engineer (not the brainiest kid around, so I doubt I will ever be given a chance).
I'm not sure if I'd like the job - based on what people have said here - however it's got to be worth a try. Even if I did it for a year, it's an opportunity of a lifetime and I'd love to experience it.
craigsup said:
I'd love to work in F1.
I'm a software engineer (not the brainiest kid around, so I doubt I will ever be given a chance).
I'm not sure if I'd like the job - based on what people have said here - however it's got to be worth a try. Even if I did it for a year, it's an opportunity of a lifetime and I'd love to experience it.
To put your "it's got to be worth a try" comment into perspective, before I did my 4 year stint, the guy before me lasted a week, before him a month, and before that a year.I'm a software engineer (not the brainiest kid around, so I doubt I will ever be given a chance).
I'm not sure if I'd like the job - based on what people have said here - however it's got to be worth a try. Even if I did it for a year, it's an opportunity of a lifetime and I'd love to experience it.
The guy who replaced me had a mental breakdown after 9 months and announced at 3AM on the day he was due to leave for a race that he couldn't do it.
No offence but giving it a try does not cut it, you really need a mixture of pig headed stubbornness and a burning desire to succeed. Easier said than done when after a week of no sleep you find yourself arguing with the team manager over where a cooling fan should go (long story for maybe another time).
pozi said:
To put your "it's got to be worth a try" comment into perspective, before I did my 4 year stint, the guy before me lasted a week, before him a month, and before that a year.
The guy who replaced me had a mental breakdown after 9 months and announced at 3AM on the day he was due to leave for a race that he couldn't do it.
No offence but giving it a try does not cut it, you really need a mixture of pig headed stubbornness and a burning desire to succeed. Easier said than done when after a week of no sleep you find yourself arguing with the team manager over where a cooling fan should go (long story for maybe another time).
Not sure if I worded that correctly - I meant that it's kind of a once in a lifetime opportunity, and that if you don't take it you don't know if you're going to fit in / enjoy it or not.The guy who replaced me had a mental breakdown after 9 months and announced at 3AM on the day he was due to leave for a race that he couldn't do it.
No offence but giving it a try does not cut it, you really need a mixture of pig headed stubbornness and a burning desire to succeed. Easier said than done when after a week of no sleep you find yourself arguing with the team manager over where a cooling fan should go (long story for maybe another time).
I understand the hours are horrendous and the conditions might not be what they seem on the outside, however to work in the sport that I love and spend a lot of time watching / researching would be worth that.
On the flip side, once I work there for x amount of time, I might change my view - however I still would have spent time working in the sport - which at the end of the day, is an achievement as mentioned before about the compeititveness of jobs.
mikearwas said:
LivewareProblem said:
I've been offered the job at Red Bull after my interview, the pay is better than i'm getting working in Finance in London so i'm jumping ship and taking a gamble
Congratulations. What's the role if you don't mind me asking?So until I get anything in writing its all academic really.
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