Has F1 reached a new low?

[thegreenhell]

I'm sure Ford would also have given Lotus some form of compensation for changing their contract like that. It wouldn't have been purely altruistic on Chapman's part, 'for the good of the sport'.

[thegreenhell]

Speaking of new lows, it seems BE has been defending Sepp Blatter and corruption in sport as a necessity, as well as criticising the USA just a week before the F1 circus rolls up in Texas.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/34552570

[leglessAlex]

thegreenhell said:

Speaking of new lows, it seems BE has been defending Sepp Blatter and corruption in sport as a necessity, as well as criticising the USA just a week before the F1 circus rolls up in Texas.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/34552570

He really is an odious little man.

He did good things for F1 in the past but now the sooner F1 is rid of him the better I reckon.

[dr_gn]

entropy said:

Gaz. said:

entropy said:

I agree its a complex problem.

Viewing figures and attendances figures for NASCAR have drastically been down for a a number of years when it peaked in the 2000s.

A common theme regularly mentioned in Motorsport magazine's blogs is that Millennials aren't interested in things automotive. In the UK turning 17 and getting a driving license isn't so much of a rites of passage, sports bikes sales have been in decline; cost of insurance, particularly for young 'uns is expensive. Kids don't to show off their new rides but want smartphones, tablets, social media and whatnot.

Viewing figures for everything is in decline as more channels chase the same number of households. Look at soaps, Eastenders biggest audience was 30m in 1988 and was regularly above 20m in the 1980s and early 1990s. Their typical audience now is 6m with the odd peak of 10-12m every four years. Saturday evening entertainment shows like Blind Date, Strike It Lucky, Noel's House Party would piss 20m viewers each week while in May Cowell was over the moon that 12m watched the X-Factor as it was one of the biggest audiences for years especially when 8m was considered a jack pot.

If anyone thinks they can get 20m people to tune in regularly for a Grand Prix, East Enders or X Factor you'd better get your C.Vs in and you'll be naming your price too.

Last year the strongest TV markets was the US and UK even though UK TV figures have been going downhill since the SKY deal; British GP attendance is one of if not the best attended GPs over a weekend even though its been bloody expensive for years. Cf. Germany falling TV figures, falling GP attendance and they don't seem to warm to Vettel as they did with Schumi.

Eric Mc said:

dr_gn said:

Ford weren't running their own team; if a DFV won in any chassis, it was still a victory for a Ford engine. With Mercedes, it's different because they've invested millions in their own team.

The important thing is that Lotus had an exclusive contract. They could have held Ford to that contract. They didn't - for the good of the sport.

I'm more inclined to agree with dr_gn. In 1993 McLaren pressured Ford in to getting equal top spec engines even though Benetton were the factory team. Would've been a different story if it was a full on factory outfit making chassis and engine.

Kind of the same with Honda opting to supply both BAR and Jordan with works engines in - c. 2000? - rather than an exclusive works deal with BAR, and Jordan via. Mugen. I guess it made sense for Honda to spread the risk of exclusively powering a duff chassis.

FWIW I'd take a grid full of old Mugen V10's over the current MagiMix crap any day of the week.

[rallycross]

leglessAlex said:

thegreenhell said:

Speaking of new lows, it seems BE has been defending Sepp Blatter and corruption in sport as a necessity, as well as criticising the USA just a week before the F1 circus rolls up in Texas.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/34552570

He really is an odious little man.

He did good things for F1 in the past but now the sooner F1 is rid of him the better I reckon.

Looks like new lows being achieved with increasing vigour, why would any manufacturer want to be involved in this mess?
Bizarre and worrying especially as he has just been reinstated as a director.

https://joesaward.wordpress.com/2015/10/16/bernie-...

[Eric Mc]

entropy said:

Eric Mc said:

I'm not sure of your point. Are you disputing that Lotus didn't agree to the engines they had exclusive use of being made available to others?

No, just highlighting different times, different eras. Self interest is far too prevalent due to money. F1 World Championship didn't pay out much pre-Bernie whereas the WCC has become more and more important over the years.

That's what I was saying - different times, different attitudes.

We agree - I think.

[longblackcoat]

rallycross said:

leglessAlex said:

thegreenhell said:

Speaking of new lows, it seems BE has been defending Sepp Blatter and corruption in sport as a necessity, as well as criticising the USA just a week before the F1 circus rolls up in Texas.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/34552570

He really is an odious little man.

He did good things for F1 in the past but now the sooner F1 is rid of him the better I reckon.

Looks like new lows being achieved with increasing vigour, why would any manufacturer want to be involved in this mess?
Bizarre and worrying especially as he has just been reinstated as a director.

https://joesaward.wordpress.com/2015/10/16/bernie-...

I really couldn't watch that; just appalling. Switched off after the first few minutes.

BE's turned into your doddery old uncle, the one who you liked but now only have over for Cristmas dinner because he can't stop himself from saying offensive things and upsetting your wife.

[rdjohn]

The OP asked the question - has F1 reached a new low?

With this latest outburst from BE the answer is, without any doubt, a resounding YES!!

The bigger problem is that it took years for less mud to stick on Blatter, BE has already washed-off much worse.

[Walford]

rdjohn said:

The OP asked the question - has F1 reached a new low?

With this latest outburst from BE the answer is, without any doubt, a resounding YES!!

The bigger problem is that it took years for less mud to stick on Blatter, BE has already washed-off much worse.

Football becoming more complicated and less interesting

[entropy]

Eric Mc said:

That's what I was saying - different times, different attitudes.

We agree - I think.

To a degree. I question whether Ford would have done the same thing had they been a constructor; if Chapman had reservations why not Ford?

Engine supplier is a bit different. Remember that Walter Hayes was Ford PR man and it wasn't just a sporting gesture as the other gain was that success could be spread across F1 and not just with Lotus - a bit like Renault in the mid 90s with Williams & Benetton.

[Chrisgr31]

leglessAlex said:

thegreenhell said:

Speaking of new lows, it seems BE has been defending Sepp Blatter and corruption in sport as a necessity, as well as criticising the USA just a week before the F1 circus rolls up in Texas.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/34552570

He really is an odious little man.

He did good things for F1 in the past but now the sooner F1 is rid of him the better I reckon.

That interview and indeed how frequently Putin was shown on the world TV feed shows why F1 should not be racing in Russia, basically just PR for Putin.

[dr_gn]

At last...

“I think there is a big argument for back to basics, where the driver has a steering wheel and maybe even a gear lever, and brakes and an accelerator and a very powerful engine and he has to get on with it.”

http://www.jamesallenonf1.com/2015/10/bernie-eccle...

[amgmcqueen]

The engines are utter crap and have ruined the formula. It's pathetic that they pandered to the environmentalists, and insulting to suggest that these V6 engines are 'green'.

The 15 race V10 era is way more green than the 21 race V6 era. All those planes transporting the trucks and equipment don't run on fairy dust. It's all just delusional, hypocritical nonsense that has alienated the real fans and attracted no new ones.

I also could not give a toss about 'ERS' and fake DRS. The irony is they all love to talk about how advanced and modern the new 'power plants' are. And how we can't go back to those 'dinosaur' V10 engines, which are rather embarrassingly for the sport, roughly 4 seconds a lap quicker! This is with grooved tyres and no DRS either!

[London424]

amgmcqueen said:

The engines are utter crap and have ruined the formula. It's pathetic that they pandered to the environmentalists, and insulting to suggest that these V6 engines are 'green'.

The 15 race V10 era is way more green than the 21 race V6 era. All those planes transporting the trucks and equipment don't run on fairy dust. It's all just delusional, hypocritical nonsense that has alienated the real fans and attracted no new ones.

I also could not give a toss about 'ERS' and fake DRS. The irony is they all love to talk about how advanced and modern the new 'power plants' are. And how we can't go back to those 'dinosaur' V10 engines, which are rather embarrassingly for the sport, roughly 4 seconds a lap quicker! This is with grooved tyres and no DRS either!

They've been deliberately slowed down through the regulations.

[stephen300o]

amgmcqueen said:

The engines are utter crap and have ruined the formula. It's pathetic that they pandered to the environmentalists, and insulting to suggest that these V6 engines are 'green'.

The 15 race V10 era is way more green than the 21 race V6 era. All those planes transporting the trucks and equipment don't run on fairy dust. It's all just delusional, hypocritical nonsense that has alienated the real fans and attracted no new ones.

I also could not give a toss about 'ERS' and fake DRS. The irony is they all love to talk about how advanced and modern the new 'power plants' are. And how we can't go back to those 'dinosaur' V10 engines, which are rather embarrassingly for the sport, roughly 4 seconds a lap quicker! This is with grooved tyres and no DRS either!

Everyone has to 'pander to the environmentalists' as the whole motor racing thing is getting more and more of a joke. Especially F1, just a waste of time now, and because F1 is such a joke, it makes the lower one pointless too, the ones which are supposedly a stepping stone up to the 'pinnacle'. But then certainly no worse than the endless birth of millions of unwanted cars every day, what a fking mess it all is.

[mondeoman]

stephen300o said:

amgmcqueen said:

The engines are utter crap and have ruined the formula. It's pathetic that they pandered to the environmentalists, and insulting to suggest that these V6 engines are 'green'.

The 15 race V10 era is way more green than the 21 race V6 era. All those planes transporting the trucks and equipment don't run on fairy dust. It's all just delusional, hypocritical nonsense that has alienated the real fans and attracted no new ones.

I also could not give a toss about 'ERS' and fake DRS. The irony is they all love to talk about how advanced and modern the new 'power plants' are. And how we can't go back to those 'dinosaur' V10 engines, which are rather embarrassingly for the sport, roughly 4 seconds a lap quicker! This is with grooved tyres and no DRS either!

Everyone has to 'pander to the environmentalists' as the whole motor racing thing is getting more and more of a joke. Especially F1, just a waste of time now, and because F1 is such a joke, it makes the lower one pointless too, the ones which are supposedly a stepping stone up to the 'pinnacle'. But then certainly no worse than the endless birth of millions of unwanted cars every day , what a fking mess it all is.

WTF?