***** The Official Abu Dhabi GP Thread 2015 *****
Discussion
jsf said:
What is needed is another team to give enough competitive pressure to Mercedes that they have to abandon the policy of having one strategy team running both cars. Each driver should have their own dedicated team who's sole purpose is to beat the other guy, without that you don't have a fight at the ultimate limit of what is available.
Right now Mercedes are simply cruising around in a low risk formation, they may just find when the fight reappears from the likes of Ferrari, Red Bull and McLaren (and it will) they find they are unable to counter it as they are so out of practice of having to fight for the results and be creative.
This lack of risk taking is as much the drivers fault as the teams, they both showed they were incapable last year of being adult about it, so the team stamped on them, which is a shame as it's resulted in the borefest we have seen the last few races. The aero this year has been very much a step backwards also, the introduction of the new nose regs has destroyed the ability to follow a similar spec car, 2014 wasn't half as bad in this respect.
Very insightfulRight now Mercedes are simply cruising around in a low risk formation, they may just find when the fight reappears from the likes of Ferrari, Red Bull and McLaren (and it will) they find they are unable to counter it as they are so out of practice of having to fight for the results and be creative.
This lack of risk taking is as much the drivers fault as the teams, they both showed they were incapable last year of being adult about it, so the team stamped on them, which is a shame as it's resulted in the borefest we have seen the last few races. The aero this year has been very much a step backwards also, the introduction of the new nose regs has destroyed the ability to follow a similar spec car, 2014 wasn't half as bad in this respect.
I think your right about the playing safe being the root of the issues.
ZX10R NIN said:
I have to say that when LH leading I didn't see Lewis complaining that Mercedes strategy meant Rosberg couldn't beat him, infact the one time it did favour Rosberg was when Lewis & his side of the garage decided to pit at Monaco & we all remember how well Lewis reacted to that don't we.
I don't think there was a race where Nico was close enough to really challenge Lewis this year so the comparison isn't particularly valid. I think Lewis was pretty fair in his reaction at Monaco, he dominated the whole weekend and really wanted a Monaco win but a poor call (partly his own fault which he acknowledged) lost it for him - he was right to be pissed off surely, what would you expect?Edited by ZX10R NIN on Monday 30th November 21:53
I agree he had the right to be pissed off but part of his anger was he thought they'd given Nico the better strategy thus handing him the race, also had they picked a different strategy for the 2nd car more regularly Nico might have been closer.
My point is that it hasn't been a problem until Nico started winning.
My point is that it hasn't been a problem until Nico started winning.
ZX10R NIN said:
I agree he had the right to be pissed off but part of his anger was he thought they'd given Nico the better strategy thus handing him the race, also had they picked a different strategy for the 2nd car more regularly Nico might have been closer.
My point is that it hasn't been a problem until Nico started winning.
how are you in a position to say that?My point is that it hasn't been a problem until Nico started winning.
we have no idea what's been said in previous races, only what FOCA choose for us to hear.
Although, as said, Nico has not really been in the same position that much, I would like to know what his thoughts/frustrations were at the time.
It's already been said, but the nose changes to the cars for 2015 have made following near impossible compared to 2014 (which was not great), it really is time they stopped playing about the edges of the aero rules and bit the bullet.
we have gone from this (1990)
to this:
Edited by Scuffers on Tuesday 1st December 08:26
andyps said:
I don't think there was a race where Nico was close enough to really challenge Lewis this year so the comparison isn't particularly valid. I think Lewis was pretty fair in his reaction at Monaco, he dominated the whole weekend and really wanted a Monaco win but a poor call (partly his own fault which he acknowledged) lost it for him - he was right to be pissed off surely, what would you expect?
It's not team Lewis or team Nico it's team Mercedes, if Lewis wants a team that's solely focussed on him winning races then he should start his own, providing Mercedes get first and second, or second and first it's job done for them. Mercedes have given him a car that's two seconds a lap faster than everyone other than his team mate, I don't think he's got any right to be pissed off at them, and if he is he would surely be welcome to try winning in another team's car.Mercedes could put any two of the top dozen F1 drivers in their cars and get regular 1-2s, or 2-1s, Vettel, Raikkonen, Ricciardo, Bottas, Verstappen, Alonso, Button, Grosjean, Hulkenberg, Perez, Sainz, anyone of them could replace either Hamilton or Rosberg and Mercedes would still got first and second in 2014, 2015 and most likely 2016. Hamilton should count his blessings.
Scuffers said:
It's already been said, but the nose changes to the cars for 2015 have made following near impossible compared to 2014 (which was not great), it really is time they stopped playing about the edges of the aero rules and bit the bullet.
we have gone from this (1990)
to this:
I don't know enough about aero to know what difference that makes but when they talk about cost savings I reckon that going back to the simple single or double plane wings could probably render the talk about engine costs irrelevant. Various costs have been suggested for the front wings, and they get through a lot during the year so must be a major expense which doesn't make the "show" any better as far as I can tell.we have gone from this (1990)
to this:
Edited by Scuffers on Tuesday 1st December 08:26
RYH64E said:
andyps said:
I don't think there was a race where Nico was close enough to really challenge Lewis this year so the comparison isn't particularly valid. I think Lewis was pretty fair in his reaction at Monaco, he dominated the whole weekend and really wanted a Monaco win but a poor call (partly his own fault which he acknowledged) lost it for him - he was right to be pissed off surely, what would you expect?
It's not team Lewis or team Nico it's team Mercedes, if Lewis wants a team that's solely focussed on him winning races then he should start his own, providing Mercedes get first and second, or second and first it's job done for them. Mercedes have given him a car that's two seconds a lap faster than everyone other than his team mate, I don't think he's got any right to be pissed off at them, and if he is he would surely be welcome to try winning in another team's car.Mercedes could put any two of the top dozen F1 drivers in their cars and get regular 1-2s, or 2-1s, Vettel, Raikkonen, Ricciardo, Bottas, Verstappen, Alonso, Button, Grosjean, Hulkenberg, Perez, Sainz, anyone of them could replace either Hamilton or Rosberg and Mercedes would still got first and second in 2014, 2015 and most likely 2016. Hamilton should count his blessings.
andyps said:
I don't think he was pissed off with the team, just pissed off in general with the way things worked out. I never heard him blame the team, hos radio call was "We've lost this haven't we" which certainly implied to me that he wasn't blaming anyone specific. In that situation I doubt anyone as motivated to win as F1 drivers are would be anything but pissed off.
'We' didn't lose this, 'we' as in Mercedes won the race and got a 1-3 if I remember correctly. Not as good as a 1-2 (or 2-1), but hardly a disaster.RYH64E said:
Mercedes could put any two of the top dozen F1 drivers in their cars and get regular 1-2s, or 2-1s, Vettel, Raikkonen, Ricciardo, Bottas, Verstappen, Alonso, Button, Grosjean, Hulkenberg, Perez, Sainz, anyone of them could replace either Hamilton or Rosberg and Mercedes would still got first and second in 2014, 2015 and most likely 2016. Hamilton should count his blessings.
About sums it up for me.vonuber said:
RYH64E said:
Mercedes could put any two of the top dozen F1 drivers in their cars and get regular 1-2s, or 2-1s, Vettel, Raikkonen, Ricciardo, Bottas, Verstappen, Alonso, Button, Grosjean, Hulkenberg, Perez, Sainz, anyone of them could replace either Hamilton or Rosberg and Mercedes would still got first and second in 2014, 2015 and most likely 2016. Hamilton should count his blessings.
About sums it up for me.
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