*** The official Formula One 2015-16 off season thread ***
Discussion
Scuffers said:
redneckLT said:
I am looking forward to find out:
4. Haas performance (most likely Sauber/Torro Rosso levels).
I'll speculate that Haas are better than this in year one, Team need to learn to be a team, but I bet their car is dam near a front running package.4. Haas performance (most likely Sauber/Torro Rosso levels).
I have heard of Haas (if it is indeed Haas as in Newman-Haas Racing?) but don't really know about their successes or anything. Is it an all-american outfit (remember how bad that turned out last time).?
Otispunkmeyer said:
What makes you say so?
I have heard of Haas (if it is indeed Haas as in Newman-Haas Racing?) but don't really know about their successes or anything. Is it an all-american outfit (remember how bad that turned out last time).?
Google them - they have been using Ferrari wind tunnels (without limitations unlike teams that are in the championship), have a Ferrari engine and gearbox and some very smart people.I have heard of Haas (if it is indeed Haas as in Newman-Haas Racing?) but don't really know about their successes or anything. Is it an all-american outfit (remember how bad that turned out last time).?
They will screw up with race operations but that car is as close to a Ferrari B team as the regulations allow. Plus Grosjean who is pretty damn quick.
Wild guess - Ferrari aero next year will also be awesome given the above.
Vaud said:
Google them - they have been using Ferrari wind tunnels (without limitations unlike teams that are in the championship), have a Ferrari engine and gearbox and some very smart people.
They will screw up with race operations but that car is as close to a Ferrari B team as the regulations allow. Plus Grosjean who is pretty damn quick.
Wild guess - Ferrari aero next year will also be awesome given the above.
you beet me to it!They will screw up with race operations but that car is as close to a Ferrari B team as the regulations allow. Plus Grosjean who is pretty damn quick.
Wild guess - Ferrari aero next year will also be awesome given the above.
Merc are already upset that Ferrari have been using Haas as cover for *many* hours of wind tunnel time (to avoid the limits for an F1 team).
no way will the car be a dog, and as said, the 2016 Ferrari may well be megga.
(This is why Brackley are looking for 1.5 sec's)
Just seen a story on Motorsport.com, apparently Wolff has been saying that the tension and troubles caused between the drivers is the biggest problem in the team. He further implied that if it continues he may be changing the driver line up.
"Wolff: Driver tension may force line-up change
"Mercedes says it will consider replacing either Lewis Hamilton or Nico Rosberg if their troubled relationship starts hurting the Formula 1 team. In a dramatic post-season warning to his drivers made by motorsport boss Toto Wolff, the Austrian claims that the dynamic between them – plus how they work with team members – has become the title-winning outfit's biggest weakness. He says that ongoing difficulties that come up whenever one of the drivers loses are no longer acceptable. "We struggle sometimes in winning races on Sunday and having always one [driver] upset," said Wolff
Rosberg has a contract until the end of 2016, Hamilton until end of 2018. I can only see that as meaning Wherlein is in for 2017.
"Wolff: Driver tension may force line-up change
"Mercedes says it will consider replacing either Lewis Hamilton or Nico Rosberg if their troubled relationship starts hurting the Formula 1 team. In a dramatic post-season warning to his drivers made by motorsport boss Toto Wolff, the Austrian claims that the dynamic between them – plus how they work with team members – has become the title-winning outfit's biggest weakness. He says that ongoing difficulties that come up whenever one of the drivers loses are no longer acceptable. "We struggle sometimes in winning races on Sunday and having always one [driver] upset," said Wolff
Rosberg has a contract until the end of 2016, Hamilton until end of 2018. I can only see that as meaning Wherlein is in for 2017.
Don't really understand the wind tunnel thing. Is the issue that they are using it for in season development? I thought that teams could start developing their next season cars whenever they wanted depending on budget split as in how much to spend on current car to remain competitive and how much to spend on the new car. The suggestion was that Brawn racing won their title because they basically stopped developing their then current Honda and started developing next years car quite early on.
So after the long winded question, would the extra wind tunnel time affect the speed of development for competitor cars?
So after the long winded question, would the extra wind tunnel time affect the speed of development for competitor cars?
Doink said:
Tyres.
Why are pirelli so obsessed with this 'cliff' they want to reintroduce...... WHY! All it means is that drivers will tootle around trying the stretch the stint, be the last to hit this cliff and to make the last stint shorter!
Drivers want to push not babysit tyres, why are you doing this pirelli why why why?
I would imagine that Pirelli will build the tyres exactly how the FIA specify them. They take a lot of flack from all corners (especially on here) for no good reason. Why are pirelli so obsessed with this 'cliff' they want to reintroduce...... WHY! All it means is that drivers will tootle around trying the stretch the stint, be the last to hit this cliff and to make the last stint shorter!
Drivers want to push not babysit tyres, why are you doing this pirelli why why why?
Not seen this mentioned yet?
http://www.skysports.com/f1/news/12472/10086595/le...
Shirley this is likely to be Rosberg dropped on his arse?
http://www.skysports.com/f1/news/12472/10086595/le...
Shirley this is likely to be Rosberg dropped on his arse?
KarlMac said:
Not seen this mentioned yet?
http://www.skysports.com/f1/news/12472/10086595/le...
Shirley this is likely to be Rosberg dropped on his arse?
Really? 4 posts up!http://www.skysports.com/f1/news/12472/10086595/le...
Shirley this is likely to be Rosberg dropped on his arse?
KarlMac said:
Not seen this mentioned yet?
http://www.skysports.com/f1/news/12472/10086595/le...
Shirley this is likely to be Rosberg dropped on his arse?
It would be easier to drop LH. He is, after all, the one who always claims the team cheated him when he doesn't win and I doubt his petted lip routine goes down too well with the mechanics.http://www.skysports.com/f1/news/12472/10086595/le...
Shirley this is likely to be Rosberg dropped on his arse?
If the car remains in front, loads of drivers could win in it, and it would emphasise Merc's engineering expertise to throw the gansta out of the car and let Carlos/Max/Danny/Perez/Bottas show how its done.
Ain't gonna happen
deadslow said:
It would be easier to drop LH. He is, after all, the one who always claims the team cheated him when he doesn't win and I doubt his petted lip routine goes down too well with the mechanics.
If the car remains in front, loads of drivers could win in it, and it would emphasise Merc's engineering expertise to throw the gansta out of the car and let Carlos/Max/Danny/Perez/Bottas show how its done.
Ain't gonna happen
Something tells me you aren't Lewis's number one fan are you?If the car remains in front, loads of drivers could win in it, and it would emphasise Merc's engineering expertise to throw the gansta out of the car and let Carlos/Max/Danny/Perez/Bottas show how its done.
Ain't gonna happen
I'm looking forward to seeing what Ferrhaasi can do and how the A team suddenly have a car with superior aero work. It would be nice to see Renault take over Lotus, saving all those jobs and hopefully showing up RB next year.
Also be interesting to see McHonda next year. What with Manor being Merc and Williams hyrid, and Ferrhaasi getting help they really will need to sort their issues out. Im sure they know what to do, bigger turbo, better heat management and not so much size zero next year!
Pascal Wehrlein would be in line for a Mercedes drive before any 'outsiders' like Bottas or Verstappen.
Is it confirmed yet that Toro Rosso will have the year old spec Ferrari engines next year? If so, and if Red Bull keep the Renault engines, Toro Rosso will be ahead of Red Bull. The TR has been pretty handy this year, considering it's a Renault engine. With a faster and more reliable engine, Max and Carlos should have a good year.
Is it confirmed yet that Toro Rosso will have the year old spec Ferrari engines next year? If so, and if Red Bull keep the Renault engines, Toro Rosso will be ahead of Red Bull. The TR has been pretty handy this year, considering it's a Renault engine. With a faster and more reliable engine, Max and Carlos should have a good year.
cho said:
Don't really understand the wind tunnel thing. Is the issue that they are using it for in season development? I thought that teams could start developing their next season cars whenever they wanted depending on budget split as in how much to spend on current car to remain competitive and how much to spend on the new car. The suggestion was that Brawn racing won their title because they basically stopped developing their then current Honda and started developing next years car quite early on.
So after the long winded question, would the extra wind tunnel time affect the speed of development for competitor cars?
wind tunnel time is limited full stop, not just in-season and for the current years car.So after the long winded question, would the extra wind tunnel time affect the speed of development for competitor cars?
same with CFD time.
Haas are currently not a F1 team, so the limits do not apply to them, hence they are using all the tunnel time Ferrari can afford - the question is who's car are they working on?
suffolk009 said:
I read on the internet that Ferrari fired a bunch of their aero guys. Haas immediately employed them. Haas have now fired them. Unsurprisingly, they've been re-hired by Ferrari.
Shocking if true.
You clearly haven't followed F1 for very long ;-)Shocking if true.
That's one of the least shocking things I've heard in years!
Operating within the letter of the rules, though maybe not the spirit...
leglessAlex said:
HarryFlatters said:
As I understand it, in-season development was supposed to be frozen, but there was a loophole that all manufacturers exploited. To keep a cap on the costs, the FIA introduced the token system to prevent a free-for-all during the season. As the start of these regulations, there was a sliding scale on the %age of the engine that could be changed during the closed season, tending to 0% after 2018 (iirc). Now the season is over, the engine manufacturers are free to change essentially anything the like as long as they can present something to the FIA in February for homologation.
Honda couldn't change what they needed to change in season because the fundamental design of the engine (turbo and MGU-H too small) meant that they didn't have enough tokens to make any difference to these.
Now that the season is over, I'm pretty sure that they're currently strapping a massive turbo and a massive H to a redesigned ICU. In fact, they've probably had that on the dyno since mid season.
Interesting. Honda couldn't change what they needed to change in season because the fundamental design of the engine (turbo and MGU-H too small) meant that they didn't have enough tokens to make any difference to these.
Now that the season is over, I'm pretty sure that they're currently strapping a massive turbo and a massive H to a redesigned ICU. In fact, they've probably had that on the dyno since mid season.
This is the article that I thought was clearest, but I couldn't work out if the 32 tokens they were talking about related to all development between the end of one season and the beginning of another, or just between the homologation date in late February and the end of that season in November.
Edit: Forgot the link! Here it is: http://en.espn.co.uk/f1/motorsport/story/194433.ht...
I had assumed it was the former and that the homologation date in February only applied to new engine manufacturers, if you had already homologated an engine the previous year you had to work with that, you couldn't change everything and re-homologate it.
The intended plan was:
-Homologate engine prior to season start
-Race same-spec engine throughout the entire season
-Apply tokens for development in the off-season
-Re-homologate the developed engine before the next season start
-Race same-spec engine throughout the entire season
-Repeat with a diminishing number of development tokens season by season.
Because of the struggles of Honda and Renault in 2015, the FIA have decided to maintain the same number of tokens for development in 2016, rather than reducing them as originally planned, and will continue in-season development rather than forcing pre-season homologation.
Just because it's the off-season doesn't mean they can now go banzai and build an completely new engine. It still needs to be based off the old engine with developments as allowed by the token system. As the 2015 season has now finished, any developments they make from now until the end of 2016 will come from their 2016 token allocation.
thegreenhell said:
......any developments they make from now until the end of 2016 will come from their 2016 token allocation.
Which I guess leads me to my original point, can Honda sort out the problems they have with the tokens they'll be given? I'm guessing no, but I hope I'm wrong.
noell35 said:
Am I wrong in thinking changes to improve reliability are allowed without using up tokens?
Surely Honda could bin the lot and start again based solely on reliability!
They potentially could, however...Surely Honda could bin the lot and start again based solely on reliability!
In order to make a design change for reliability without any cost in tokens, a manufacturer has to submit to the FIA detailed design plans of the affected area showing both the problem and the proposed solution. This is then circulated to all the other engine manufacturers (in order for them to vet that it's purely to improve reliability as claimed and not performance) before it is approved as a reliability design change.
If they are hiding some secret masterpiece of design in there and just struggling to get it to work properly then this is a sure fire way to let all the others know exactly what they're up to. To date, I don't think Honda have submitted a single reliability update request.
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