How was the 2015 Season for you?
Discussion
BigBob said:
I think that's the problem. Us 'Diehards' still think of it as a sport - CVC/FOM/Bernie etc see it as an 'Entertainment Experience' and marketing excercise.
BB
It has been about marketing for years, even before the JPS, but there has been lip service to providing a spectacle. It has done quite well in the past. BB
It is a bit extreme now with night races to catch the TV viewers but even so, it makes a change. Over a fair number of years it has been increasingly packaged, to a degree that has meant homogenisation of circuits, cars and drivers. That does not necessarily preclude it being attractive to fans I think.
Over the last few years, the intent has been to make it saleable and therein lies the problem I think.
I disagree with you in that Ecclestone's view of F1 isn't entertainment. He wants to make money out of it.
Derek Smith said:
Over a fair number of years it has been increasingly packaged, to a degree that has meant homogenisation of circuits, cars and drivers. That does not necessarily preclude it being attractive to fans I think.
Over the last few years, the intent has been to make it saleable and therein lies the problem I think.
I disagree with you in that Ecclestone's view of F1 isn't entertainment. He wants to make money out of it.
I think that the homogenisation certainly can have the effect of making it less attractive to fans as the variety is lost. The circuits are one of the biggest problems IMO. I'm yet to hear anyone compliment any of the Tilke tracks on anything other than how impressive the facilities are. The layouts are, for the most part bland and they all look the same on TV. The racing is nothing to write home about either which is criminal since they had a clean piece of paper to start from. In the 90's you had 16 or so races, on tracks that challenged drivers and punished mistakes. I'd give anything to go back to the sort of calendar we had in 1996-7Over the last few years, the intent has been to make it saleable and therein lies the problem I think.
I disagree with you in that Ecclestone's view of F1 isn't entertainment. He wants to make money out of it.
Ecclestone wants to make money out of F1 but he hasn't done anything to engage with the fans in ways that other sports do, whether it's online broadcasting, use of social media, open access to fans trackside etc..
F1 needs to be easy to follow, as it once was. These days you need a dictionary of acronyms just to follow the commentary, and then you have every last misdemeanor warranting a stewards investigation. Not to mention the over complicated rules surrounding fuel use, tyre compounds, engine and gearbox use, DRS, ERS, etc etc.. Who cares? Does any of this actually improve the spectacle for the viewers?
There will always be some dull races but at least in the recent past you could still marvel at the fact that the cars were being driven to their absolute limits with the engines screaming all the way. Hair on the back of the neck stuff. I cant get quite as enthused about lift and coast and strat 1,2,3 etc..
rubystone said:
Gaz. said:
My only real bug bear was the awful tyres. LMP1 can lean on their tyres 100% for 4 x 45 minute stints and enable the cars to have multiple tries at attacking the car infront. The F1 tyres seem to have a memory and need to be baby'd. A single lock up should not go through to the canvas.
The noise does not bother me, to me it's as irrelevant as the uniforms worn by the waitresses in a restaurant.
Mclaren were sorely missed from the front end, the sport desperately needs their unique attitude to letting their drivers race each other but even when they have a good car they still snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.
The racing in the main has been good from 4th-14th but with Merc neutering their drivers on Sundays and Raikkonen just not bothering at all, the racing in the podium positions has been pitiful.
However, the rose tinted brigade really do get on my nerves. Both BBC and Sky show the old races virtually on rotation so you can rewatch with fresh eyeballs that this 'golden era' never existed. People harping on about gladiators wheelbanging for 60 laps either are in denial or have s
t memories. The latter can be cured by watching the classic races again, the former will always be a glass half empty gobste. F1 has never, ever resembled the close racing of Formula Ford from 1987.
The other thing- WEC. I am a fan of both series, but anyone hoping to see wheel banging, loud screamers, full grandstands at legendary circuits with no fuel management is in for a very big shock. I bet there were more drivers in the cars than spectators in the grandstands in Bahrain. Japan spent 45 minutes behind the safety car because it was too wet (sound familiar?), the turn out in the USA was so low WEC are scratching their heads, 4 of the 8 races are at Tilkedromes - the same ones people bh about in F1 and LMP1H is just as quiet as F1, oh and there's st loads of fuel management too in all classes.
On the other hand, competition improves the breed and hopefully WEC has been a massive wake-up call for F1 as FOM have rested on their laurels for far too long. Perhaps WEC has been the driver for the 2017 overhaul, either way 2017 cannot come soon enough.
Thanks for saving me the trouble of typing a response Gaz. Spot on. I'd simply add that the first couple of laps of every GP this season have more midfield action than I've ever seen before. Today's race was a good example of that. Without the presence of the works Mercedes I'd wager that the opinions on the season would be very different, too.The noise does not bother me, to me it's as irrelevant as the uniforms worn by the waitresses in a restaurant.
Mclaren were sorely missed from the front end, the sport desperately needs their unique attitude to letting their drivers race each other but even when they have a good car they still snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.
The racing in the main has been good from 4th-14th but with Merc neutering their drivers on Sundays and Raikkonen just not bothering at all, the racing in the podium positions has been pitiful.
However, the rose tinted brigade really do get on my nerves. Both BBC and Sky show the old races virtually on rotation so you can rewatch with fresh eyeballs that this 'golden era' never existed. People harping on about gladiators wheelbanging for 60 laps either are in denial or have s
t memories. The latter can be cured by watching the classic races again, the former will always be a glass half empty gobste. F1 has never, ever resembled the close racing of Formula Ford from 1987.The other thing- WEC. I am a fan of both series, but anyone hoping to see wheel banging, loud screamers, full grandstands at legendary circuits with no fuel management is in for a very big shock. I bet there were more drivers in the cars than spectators in the grandstands in Bahrain. Japan spent 45 minutes behind the safety car because it was too wet (sound familiar?), the turn out in the USA was so low WEC are scratching their heads, 4 of the 8 races are at Tilkedromes - the same ones people b
h about in F1 and LMP1H is just as quiet as F1, oh and there's st loads of fuel management too in all classes.On the other hand, competition improves the breed and hopefully WEC has been a massive wake-up call for F1 as FOM have rested on their laurels for far too long. Perhaps WEC has been the driver for the 2017 overhaul, either way 2017 cannot come soon enough.
For me theres very little that needs to be done. Loose the aero which is stopping overtaking by following someone close. Give them ground effect instead. Give them tyre which still have to managed so they don't over heat, but that can be used properly and for a decent distance. Stop team orders. If a team mate is in front but not as quick as the guy behind, hopefully with the things Ive said above will allow him to overtake. If he cant that's his tough luck.
Allow in season testing, for both tyre manufacturers and teams alike.
Gaz. said:
However, the rose tinted brigade really do get on my nerves. Both BBC and Sky show the old races virtually on rotation so you can rewatch with fresh eyeballs that this 'golden era' never existed. People harping on about gladiators wheelbanging for 60 laps either are in denial or have st memories. The latter can be cured by watching the classic races again, the former will always be a glass half empty gobste. F1 has never, ever resembled the close racing of Formula Ford from 1987.
The other thing- WEC. I am a fan of both series, but anyone hoping to see wheel banging, loud screamers, full grandstands at legendary circuits with no fuel management is in for a very big shock. I bet there were more drivers in the cars than spectators in the grandstands in Bahrain. Japan spent 45 minutes behind the safety car because it was too wet (sound familiar?), the turn out in the USA was so low WEC are scratching their heads, 4 of the 8 races are at Tilkedromes - the same ones people bh about in F1 and LMP1H is just as quiet as F1, oh and there's st loads of fuel management too in all classes.
Couldn't possibly agree more. People's vision/memory seems short when it comes to F1 and WEC (and I say that as a huge fan of both).t memories. The latter can be cured by watching the classic races again, the former will always be a glass half empty gobste. F1 has never, ever resembled the close racing of Formula Ford from 1987.The other thing- WEC. I am a fan of both series, but anyone hoping to see wheel banging, loud screamers, full grandstands at legendary circuits with no fuel management is in for a very big shock. I bet there were more drivers in the cars than spectators in the grandstands in Bahrain. Japan spent 45 minutes behind the safety car because it was too wet (sound familiar?), the turn out in the USA was so low WEC are scratching their heads, 4 of the 8 races are at Tilkedromes - the same ones people b
h about in F1 and LMP1H is just as quiet as F1, oh and there's st loads of fuel management too in all classes.It's not been a vintage title year (in spite of it going down to the 16th race), but we've had plenty of good racing and some real statements by rookies.
Season highlights
- Vettel proving his doubters wrong and instilling a real passion in the Ferrari team again.
- Max Verstappen some of his overtakes this season made the hairs on the back of my neck stand up particularly the ones at Spa, future World Champion I should think.
- Manor getting a Mercedes engine deal, considering what they've gone through its amazing they are still here, let alone getting a decent engine supply.
Season lowlights
- Jules Bianchi passing away.
- McLarens struggles, two world champions talents being wasted at the back of the grid.
- Ferrari being just about unable to compete with Mercedes.
- Nico not being able to make more of a fight of it at the front and the Championship winner being very obvious from very early on.
- Cars being good but not capable of being driven hard due to stupid fuel flow and tyre situation.
- Vettel proving his doubters wrong and instilling a real passion in the Ferrari team again.
- Max Verstappen some of his overtakes this season made the hairs on the back of my neck stand up particularly the ones at Spa, future World Champion I should think.
- Manor getting a Mercedes engine deal, considering what they've gone through its amazing they are still here, let alone getting a decent engine supply.
Season lowlights
- Jules Bianchi passing away.
- McLarens struggles, two world champions talents being wasted at the back of the grid.
- Ferrari being just about unable to compete with Mercedes.
- Nico not being able to make more of a fight of it at the front and the Championship winner being very obvious from very early on.
- Cars being good but not capable of being driven hard due to stupid fuel flow and tyre situation.
Gaz. said:
However, the rose tinted brigade really do get on my nerves. Both BBC and Sky show the old races virtually on rotation so you can rewatch with fresh eyeballs that this 'golden era' never existed. People harping on about gladiators wheelbanging for 60 laps either are in denial or have st memories. The latter can be cured by watching the classic races again, the former will always be a glass half empty gobste. F1 has never, ever resembled the close racing of Formula Ford from 1987.
The other thing- WEC. I am a fan of both series, but anyone hoping to see wheel banging, loud screamers, full grandstands at legendary circuits with no fuel management is in for a very big shock. I bet there were more drivers in the cars than spectators in the grandstands in Bahrain. Japan spent 45 minutes behind the safety car because it was too wet (sound familiar?), the turn out in the USA was so low WEC are scratching their heads, 4 of the 8 races are at Tilkedromes - the same ones people bh about in F1 and LMP1H is just as quiet as F1, oh and there's st loads of fuel management too in all classes.
Far too much common sense and truth in one post! t memories. The latter can be cured by watching the classic races again, the former will always be a glass half empty gobste. F1 has never, ever resembled the close racing of Formula Ford from 1987.The other thing- WEC. I am a fan of both series, but anyone hoping to see wheel banging, loud screamers, full grandstands at legendary circuits with no fuel management is in for a very big shock. I bet there were more drivers in the cars than spectators in the grandstands in Bahrain. Japan spent 45 minutes behind the safety car because it was too wet (sound familiar?), the turn out in the USA was so low WEC are scratching their heads, 4 of the 8 races are at Tilkedromes - the same ones people b
h about in F1 and LMP1H is just as quiet as F1, oh and there's st loads of fuel management too in all classes.
London424 said:
What many people's comments say to me is that they've changed as people and we all have much more choice in what we do with our time nowadays.
This wasn't a great season by any stretch but people suggesting this was worse than some of the 2000s seasons are clearly deluded.
I'm sure back in the day you planned your life around it, but that's when you had 4 channels and the Internet barely existed.
I think Gaz mentioned the classic races they show on Sky...I really think some of you need to watch them and see how awful the "classics" really were without the rose tinted specs on.
Things 'mattered more' then. The cars are too 'smooth' now, they aren't really racing cars anymore, in the early 90's they were like big f3 cars. This wasn't a great season by any stretch but people suggesting this was worse than some of the 2000s seasons are clearly deluded.
I'm sure back in the day you planned your life around it, but that's when you had 4 channels and the Internet barely existed.
I think Gaz mentioned the classic races they show on Sky...I really think some of you need to watch them and see how awful the "classics" really were without the rose tinted specs on.
Eric Mc said:
C70R said:
It's not been a vintage title year (in spite of it going down to the 16th race),
In year's gone by that would more than likely have been the last race of the season - and people would have been saying what an exciting finale to the season we had.Less is more, sometimes.
mollytherocker said:
London424 said:
Unfortunately we've got a 21 race calendar for next year
The way forward is surely a 10 race season, ie 1 per month. This would save a fortune and allow for more testing. I would want 30 cars too.It wont happen of course, because its less revenue for BE.
markcoznottz said:
mollytherocker said:
London424 said:
Unfortunately we've got a 21 race calendar for next year
The way forward is surely a 10 race season, ie 1 per month. This would save a fortune and allow for more testing. I would want 30 cars too.It wont happen of course, because its less revenue for BE.
mollytherocker said:
markcoznottz said:
mollytherocker said:
London424 said:
Unfortunately we've got a 21 race calendar for next year
The way forward is surely a 10 race season, ie 1 per month. This would save a fortune and allow for more testing. I would want 30 cars too.It wont happen of course, because its less revenue for BE.
PW said:
I enjoyed F1 2015. I don't believe the glorified fantasy version of F1 people think exists just over the horizon, that they compare the actual sport against so unfavorably.
I enjoyed seeing 20 top quality drivers in amazing cars that are remarkable feats of engineering racing round a great selection of tracks. There were some great battles, wheel to wheel and strategically.
My main complaints with F1 are the same as usual - that according to the media, everything that happens is a major drama to be blown out of all proportion and scrutinized in overbearing detail, simply so they can have at least one big headline on their website every day.
And that according to the fans, everything that happens is the death knell of the sport, simply so they can spend the time between races complaining and arguing on the internet.
If you watch it every week, surely you must enjoy some aspect of it, so why not act like it? No one is going to come and beat you up if you admit to enjoying it, or god forbid find something positive to say.
It's annoying that I have to avoid everything about F1 but the races so that I'm not constantly being told how much I should hate it.
Are you really tuning into races to see people in the grandstands? And don't forget that Nakajima broke his neck at Spa after crashing in wet conditions - I think the WEC's commitment to safety over spectacle is laudable, with a grid containing massive differences in the speed of cars and ability of drivers.
Fully agreed.I enjoyed seeing 20 top quality drivers in amazing cars that are remarkable feats of engineering racing round a great selection of tracks. There were some great battles, wheel to wheel and strategically.
My main complaints with F1 are the same as usual - that according to the media, everything that happens is a major drama to be blown out of all proportion and scrutinized in overbearing detail, simply so they can have at least one big headline on their website every day.
And that according to the fans, everything that happens is the death knell of the sport, simply so they can spend the time between races complaining and arguing on the internet.
If you watch it every week, surely you must enjoy some aspect of it, so why not act like it? No one is going to come and beat you up if you admit to enjoying it, or god forbid find something positive to say.
It's annoying that I have to avoid everything about F1 but the races so that I'm not constantly being told how much I should hate it.
Gaz. said:
I bet there were more drivers in the cars than spectators in the grandstands in Bahrain. Japan spent 45 minutes behind the safety car because it was too wet
I think this speaks for the need for the PH community to find fault and complain about everything - In a thread about F1, someone manages to complain about WEC!Are you really tuning into races to see people in the grandstands? And don't forget that Nakajima broke his neck at Spa after crashing in wet conditions - I think the WEC's commitment to safety over spectacle is laudable, with a grid containing massive differences in the speed of cars and ability of drivers.
F1 has always been boring to some degree and people will always find something to moan about. When I was as school in the 90s I had the piss taken for following a boring sport. A proportion of viewers today moan that the cars aren't dramatic enough or fast enough but if you go back to the refuelling era people were moaning how boring it looked, the cars are too easy to drive flat out and no skill in managing the car - I will guarantee this argument will go round in circles when car reg cycles into easier to drive flat out then onus on car management and back to flat out and so forth.
Why was refuelling re-introduced in the 90s? To supposedly create a better spectacle.
Why were the cars made more narrow and grooved tyres? To make the cars supposedly more challenging and increase the spectacle and yet if you remember reading Autosport in 90s Nigel Roebuck was constantly advocating banning wings and more mechanical grip - yet therein lies the problem with F1: how do you achieve consensus when there are numerous ideas (and sometimes contradictory) of creating a better show, more overtaking?
For sure, 2014 will be looked on much more favourably than 2015 and you have the narrative of Nico & Lewis who were rivals in karting and team mate rivalry but then no one complains about 1996 when Williams had the best car, Hill & Villeneuve rarely or if at all went wheel to wheel; Mansell dominated in 1992 but hardly anyone moans about him having the best car; Prost & Senna dominated when they were McLaren team mates, rarely engaged wheel to wheel and history regards this as favourable ie. clash of the titans; Piquet & Mansell rarely went wheel to wheel and pretty much had a dominant era yet history looks down on it favourably with their rivalry.
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