Is Jenson Button the best driver in F1?

[BarbaricAvatar]

RobM77 said:

BarbaricAvatar said:

RobM77 said:

angrymoby said:

Both great drivers (& i know which one i'd rather got to the pub with) but...

last year one took a pay cut to be in a car at the back of the grid ...the other got a pay rise even though he was already in the best car on the grid. Says it all really.

That's not entirely true either - McLaren came fifth in constructors' championship in 2014 with Mercedes power. Their woes didn't start until 2015 with the new Honda engine. Nobody had predicted Honda's 2015 performance when Button signed his contract.

Really?! I would say their woes started in 2013 when their car still had the best engine but failed to win a single race. The highlights being one 4th and two 5th's. That was a bad season, and 2014 would've been even worse were it not for the lucky podium they got at rnd 1.
They've been on the decline for a few years now, it's just the slip from 5th to 9th was more prominent than the slip from 3rd to 5th.
They'll be lucky if they can get back to 5th this year.

I agree with you, their woes started then. I was responding to the suggestion that Button accepted a drive in a car at the back of the grid. That's not true; McLaren may have been struggling in '13 and '14, but they weren't at the back of the grid!

Sorry, i took it out of context. You are right of course. And being McLaren one would expect them to move forwards, not backwards. Still, if the 2015 car had actually been okay then i doubt Button would've been given another year so it worked out for him in the end!

[RobM77]

BarbaricAvatar said:

RobM77 said:

BarbaricAvatar said:

RobM77 said:

angrymoby said:

Both great drivers (& i know which one i'd rather got to the pub with) but...

last year one took a pay cut to be in a car at the back of the grid ...the other got a pay rise even though he was already in the best car on the grid. Says it all really.

That's not entirely true either - McLaren came fifth in constructors' championship in 2014 with Mercedes power. Their woes didn't start until 2015 with the new Honda engine. Nobody had predicted Honda's 2015 performance when Button signed his contract.

Really?! I would say their woes started in 2013 when their car still had the best engine but failed to win a single race. The highlights being one 4th and two 5th's. That was a bad season, and 2014 would've been even worse were it not for the lucky podium they got at rnd 1.
They've been on the decline for a few years now, it's just the slip from 5th to 9th was more prominent than the slip from 3rd to 5th.
They'll be lucky if they can get back to 5th this year.

I agree with you, their woes started then. I was responding to the suggestion that Button accepted a drive in a car at the back of the grid. That's not true; McLaren may have been struggling in '13 and '14, but they weren't at the back of the grid!

Sorry, i took it out of context. You are right of course. And being McLaren one would expect them to move forwards, not backwards. Still, if the 2015 car had actually been okay then i doubt Button would've been given another year so it worked out for him in the end!

For some reason Ron Dennis wasn't happy with his performance; that was the real reason for the pay cut, or at least that's what appeared to be the case from press reports.

Needless to say, I'm not championing either driver, I'm just trying to get the facts straight and counter any claims that are untrue (or just plain silly!).

[angrymoby]

RobM77 said:

I agree with you, their woes started then. I was responding to the suggestion that Button accepted a drive in a car at the back of the grid. That's not true; McLaren may have been struggling in '13 and '14, but they weren't at the back of the grid!

re-read it. I never said he did ...but that's where the McL ended up.

But he certainly has for 2016.

[RobM77]

angrymoby said:

RobM77 said:

I agree with you, their woes started then. I was responding to the suggestion that Button accepted a drive in a car at the back of the grid. That's not true; McLaren may have been struggling in '13 and '14, but they weren't at the back of the grid!

re-read it. I never said he did ...but that's where the McL ended up.

But he certainly has for 2016.

You said that Jenson took a pay cut to be in a car on the back of the grid, which is clearly saying he accepted low money to drive for a crap team. That wasn't known at the time of his contract negotiation.

[angrymoby]

RobM77 said:

angrymoby said:

RobM77 said:

I agree with you, their woes started then. I was responding to the suggestion that Button accepted a drive in a car at the back of the grid. That's not true; McLaren may have been struggling in '13 and '14, but they weren't at the back of the grid!

re-read it. I never said he did ...but that's where the McL ended up.

But he certainly has for 2016.

You said that Jenson took a pay cut to be in a car on the back of the grid, which is clearly saying he accepted low money to drive for a crap team. That wasn't known at the time of his contract negotiation.

you've misconstrued the 'to be'

[RobM77]

angrymoby said:

RobM77 said:

angrymoby said:

RobM77 said:

I agree with you, their woes started then. I was responding to the suggestion that Button accepted a drive in a car at the back of the grid. That's not true; McLaren may have been struggling in '13 and '14, but they weren't at the back of the grid!

re-read it. I never said he did ...but that's where the McL ended up.

But he certainly has for 2016.

You said that Jenson took a pay cut to be in a car on the back of the grid, which is clearly saying he accepted low money to drive for a crap team. That wasn't known at the time of his contract negotiation.

you've misconstrued the 'to be'

What did you mean then? It seems pretty clear to me.

[angrymoby]

RobM77 said:

What did you mean then? It seems pretty clear to me.

'to be' as in, ended up. which was true.

as was the comment about about 2016. which is also true.

What IS conjecture is your 'opinion' that Ron wasn't happy with Jenson's performance (which was & still is pretty good!) ...it could have been because of a number of things, including internal politiking at McL

[RobM77]

angrymoby said:

What IS conjecture is your 'opinion' that Ron wasn't happy with Jenson's performance (which was & still is pretty good!) ...it could have been because of a number of things, including internal politiking at McL

That's not my opinion at all, it was simply what was reported in the press, as I thought I made quite clear:

RobM77 said:

For some reason Ron Dennis wasn't happy with his performance; that was the real reason for the pay cut, or at least that's what appeared to be the case from press reports.

I think you need some reading and writing practise

[angrymoby]

RobM77 said:

angrymoby said:

What IS conjecture is your 'opinion' that Ron wasn't happy with Jenson's performance (which was & still is pretty good!) ...it could have been because of a number of things, including internal politiking at McL

That's not my opinion at all, it was simply what was reported in the press, as I thought I made quite clear:

RobM77 said:

For some reason Ron Dennis wasn't happy with his performance; that was the real reason for the pay cut, or at least that's what appeared to be the case from press reports.

I think you need some reading and writing practise

That's not what Allen or Saward were saying- you need to stop reading the tabloids

& you're still avoiding 2016 i see

& are you sure about that it's me that needs the practise ??

[RobM77]

angrymoby said:

RobM77 said:

angrymoby said:

What IS conjecture is your 'opinion' that Ron wasn't happy with Jenson's performance (which was & still is pretty good!) ...it could have been because of a number of things, including internal politiking at McL

That's not my opinion at all, it was simply what was reported in the press, as I thought I made quite clear:

RobM77 said:

For some reason Ron Dennis wasn't happy with his performance; that was the real reason for the pay cut, or at least that's what appeared to be the case from press reports.

I think you need some reading and writing practise

That's not what Allen or Saward were saying- you need to stop reading the tabloids

& you're still avoiding 2016 i see

& are you sure about that it's me that needs the practise ??

No, you said it quite clearly I'm afraid; everyone can see that. My comment in quotes above is also quite obvious.

ETA: If you're not English, then I apologise! I realise this is an international forum.

Edited by RobM77 on Thursday 14th January 10:42

[angrymoby]

RobM77 said:

angrymoby said:

RobM77 said:

angrymoby said:

What IS conjecture is your 'opinion' that Ron wasn't happy with Jenson's performance (which was & still is pretty good!) ...it could have been because of a number of things, including internal politiking at McL

That's not my opinion at all, it was simply what was reported in the press, as I thought I made quite clear:

RobM77 said:

For some reason Ron Dennis wasn't happy with his performance; that was the real reason for the pay cut, or at least that's what appeared to be the case from press reports.

I think you need some reading and writing practise

That's not what Allen or Saward were saying- you need to stop reading the tabloids

& you're still avoiding 2016 i see

& are you sure about that it's me that needs the practise ??

No, you said it quite clearly I'm afraid; everyone can see that. My comment in quotes above is also quite obvious.

ETA: If you're not English, then I apologise! I realise this is an international forum.

Edited by RobM77 on Thursday 14th January 10:42

everyone can see your interpretation- that's for sure.

& everyone can see you avoiding answering about 2016.

So ill leave you to white knight Jenson for a bit ...i'm sure someone else who cares will be along shortly for you to have an argument with ...failing that, there's always your local phonebox

[paua]

Perhaps it's time the season started again - would give something to discuss ( instead of all this "he said she said I said" stuff )

[Moominator]

Post- testing/pre-first race will Alonso be in the McHonda on the grid? IF he is I'd take it as a sign that the car has some promise. Agree?

[anonymous-user]

No

[deadslow]

Yes

[RobM77]

I'm not sure he has a crystal ball and I would also guess he's not the sort of person to walk away if the car is slow in pre-season testing, so yes, I think he'll be sat in the car doing his job as best as he can regardless.

[Moominator]

Last year I.e first year agree. 2nd year, same position/feel. Bye bye IMO.