New HALO system tested
Discussion
I really struggle to see how this is going to help. There have been five accidents in recent years with fatal or serious injuries cause by being hit on the head:
Henry Surtees - Hit on top of the head by a wheel
Felipe Massa - Hit on the front of the head by a spring
Maria de Villota - Hit a tail lift
Jules Bianchi - Hit a wheel loader
Justin Wilson - Hit on top of the head by a front wing
Take a look at the over head view:
I don't believe this device would have helped Jules or Maria, very little will hitting something as solid as those. I can't see how a gaping hole like that above the driver would have helped Henry or Justin.
As far as I can see, the only person this *might* have helped is Felipe. And it would only require a trajectory change of a few mm's for there to be a very different outcome if it did help.
Henry Surtees - Hit on top of the head by a wheel
Felipe Massa - Hit on the front of the head by a spring
Maria de Villota - Hit a tail lift
Jules Bianchi - Hit a wheel loader
Justin Wilson - Hit on top of the head by a front wing
Take a look at the over head view:
I don't believe this device would have helped Jules or Maria, very little will hitting something as solid as those. I can't see how a gaping hole like that above the driver would have helped Henry or Justin.
As far as I can see, the only person this *might* have helped is Felipe. And it would only require a trajectory change of a few mm's for there to be a very different outcome if it did help.
They have to be a bit careful here I think. i can actually see cases where this deflector creates an incident..
Say you were driving and something relatively small was flicked up, a spring or something similar to what hit Felipe.
Now say that in this particular case in a current formula 1 car that spring was flicked up and actually missed your head, just to the right or left.
Now you are driving with this head protecting frame work. The spring or similar takes the same trajectory, but actually now collides with the under side surface of the 'halo part'. This deflects the spring into your helmet, or into the cockpit opening causing something to hit you that otherwise wouldn't.
I can see how it might help with large objects, but with smaller shrapnel I can see this potentially causing problems.
Say you were driving and something relatively small was flicked up, a spring or something similar to what hit Felipe.
Now say that in this particular case in a current formula 1 car that spring was flicked up and actually missed your head, just to the right or left.
Now you are driving with this head protecting frame work. The spring or similar takes the same trajectory, but actually now collides with the under side surface of the 'halo part'. This deflects the spring into your helmet, or into the cockpit opening causing something to hit you that otherwise wouldn't.
I can see how it might help with large objects, but with smaller shrapnel I can see this potentially causing problems.
amgmcqueen said:
Remember when F1 car's used to be beautiful? No neither can I it's been so long ago.....
Other than an improvement in 2009 when they got rid of the winglets everywhere, I'd say early 90's. Jordan 191, Sauber C12, red and black Ferraris, yellow/blue/white Williams, Marlboro McLarens 
kambites said:
Henry Fiddleton said:
How has it ended up with this as opposed the canopy, as per Le Mans esk cars!
I think there were two concerns with the canopy - keeping it clean and dry so the driver can actually see; and the potential difficulty of getting the driver out of the car in an accident. //j17 said:
Yea, because in the WEC no-ones ever leaked any fluids or hit an insect, it never rains and the tyres have zero wear so no rubber flys off. Oh and they all have personal teleporters to get out in the case of a crash...
A WEC car also has doors and windscreen wipers... The main challenges against this in a f1 car are i can imagine trying to design doors into an f1 car would essentially lead to a prototype race car a la WEC, and also the wec canopies are far wider than would be put on an F1 car, hence wipers have a much easier surface to work on. The canopy on an f1 car would be much narrower, and much harder to get a wiper to work on. (i am sure I actually read the wipers used on the Pug le mans car were off one of their road cars!) Plus both of these would add significant weight and complexity to the design.
kambites said:
//j17 said:
Yea, because in the WEC no-ones ever leaked any fluids or hit an insect, it never rains and the tyres have zero wear so no rubber flys off. Oh and they all have personal teleporters to get out in the case of a crash...
Do they have windscreen wipers in WEC? 
Edited by ajprice on Thursday 3rd March 16:09
designndrive62 said:
//j17 said:
Yea, because in the WEC no-ones ever leaked any fluids or hit an insect, it never rains and the tyres have zero wear so no rubber flys off. Oh and they all have personal teleporters to get out in the case of a crash...
A WEC car also has doors and windscreen wipers... The main challenges against this in a f1 car are i can imagine trying to design doors into an f1 car would essentially lead to a prototype race car a la WEC, and also the wec canopies are far wider than would be put on an F1 car, hence wipers have a much easier surface to work on. The canopy on an f1 car would be much narrower, and much harder to get a wiper to work on. (i am sure I actually read the wipers used on the Pug le mans car were off one of their road cars!) Plus both of these would add significant weight and complexity to the design.Firstly- I think it looks terrible. I know looks aren't the point but it is absolutely awful thing to look at.
Secondly a I agree many infamous accidents this might not have helped- Massa might have been lucky but the others look like it wouldn't have helped however-
To say "it would not have helped" as a factoid is a bit naive IMO.
An F1 car, even with alot of momentum is still "light" and hitting heavy (wheeled loaders) or solid (walls) objects is a problem, while most of the car is a crumple zone to dissipate energy a solid roll bar around the driver "may" deflect the car away from things that could hit his/her head. That is potentially a good thing.
Until they do/show some crash testing footage/results we're not know.
However, I return to my initial gut reaction- its eye gougingly ugly
Secondly a I agree many infamous accidents this might not have helped- Massa might have been lucky but the others look like it wouldn't have helped however-
Megaflow said:
Jules Bianchi - Hit a wheel loader
Jules hit the back/bottom edge of the loader counterweight at a glancing angle and speared underneath- if this Halo is very strong (I presume it has to be) I would like to think the car may have behaved differently in that impact, perhaps been deflected more or the loader would have been moved by the halo rather than his head... RIP Jules :-(To say "it would not have helped" as a factoid is a bit naive IMO.
An F1 car, even with alot of momentum is still "light" and hitting heavy (wheeled loaders) or solid (walls) objects is a problem, while most of the car is a crumple zone to dissipate energy a solid roll bar around the driver "may" deflect the car away from things that could hit his/her head. That is potentially a good thing.
Until they do/show some crash testing footage/results we're not know.
However, I return to my initial gut reaction- its eye gougingly ugly
My heart sinks whenever I hear of a motor racing driver killed or injured while doing their job or their hobby.
However, a similar (or larger) number of jockeys are killed each year, but I don't see the horsey world inventing barmy contraptions to try to eliminate the chances of getting hurt. Sure, they wear helmets and protective eye wear, but I think I know what jockeys would say if their governing body made them wear airbag-equipped colours or riding with some kind of protective cage around them.
Drivers, jockeys and participants of just about any sport this side of crown green bowls know the risks when they compete. I'm all for minimising risks where appropriate, but the HALO device is a step too far IMHO
The solution to preventing Massa-style injuries is to prevent bits falling off cars. The solution to Bianchi-style tragedies is to compel cars to slow down more during waved yellows, or at worse, not to deploy 6-tonne agricultural equipment onto the run-off area unless the cars are travelling at massively reduced speeds. The virtual safety car (or even the real one) should be able to bring the speeds down to the point where there's zero chance of an accident happening on top of a previous one being dealt with.
That said, if a death or serious injury happens this season, and it transpires that this device would have saved a life or prevented an injury, I'd struggle to argue against it
However, a similar (or larger) number of jockeys are killed each year, but I don't see the horsey world inventing barmy contraptions to try to eliminate the chances of getting hurt. Sure, they wear helmets and protective eye wear, but I think I know what jockeys would say if their governing body made them wear airbag-equipped colours or riding with some kind of protective cage around them.
Drivers, jockeys and participants of just about any sport this side of crown green bowls know the risks when they compete. I'm all for minimising risks where appropriate, but the HALO device is a step too far IMHO
The solution to preventing Massa-style injuries is to prevent bits falling off cars. The solution to Bianchi-style tragedies is to compel cars to slow down more during waved yellows, or at worse, not to deploy 6-tonne agricultural equipment onto the run-off area unless the cars are travelling at massively reduced speeds. The virtual safety car (or even the real one) should be able to bring the speeds down to the point where there's zero chance of an accident happening on top of a previous one being dealt with.
That said, if a death or serious injury happens this season, and it transpires that this device would have saved a life or prevented an injury, I'd struggle to argue against it
ajprice said:
amgmcqueen said:
Remember when F1 car's used to be beautiful? No neither can I it's been so long ago.....
Other than an improvement in 2009 when they got rid of the winglets everywhere, I'd say early 90's. Jordan 191, Sauber C12, red and black Ferraris, yellow/blue/white Williams, Marlboro McLarens scubadude said:
Firstly- I think it looks terrible. I know looks aren't the point but it is absolutely awful thing to look at.
Secondly a I agree many infamous accidents this might not have helped- Massa might have been lucky but the others look like it wouldn't have helped however-
To say "it would not have helped" as a factoid is a bit naive IMO.
An F1 car, even with alot of momentum is still "light" and hitting heavy (wheeled loaders) or solid (walls) objects is a problem, while most of the car is a crumple zone to dissipate energy a solid roll bar around the driver "may" deflect the car away from things that could hit his/her head. That is potentially a good thing.
Until they do/show some crash testing footage/results we're not know.
However, I return to my initial gut reaction- its eye gougingly ugly
It is only my opinion, but I don't believe it would have helped him. That wheel loader weighed 8 tonnes. Very little is going to stand up against that when moving at the speed of an F1 car.Secondly a I agree many infamous accidents this might not have helped- Massa might have been lucky but the others look like it wouldn't have helped however-
Megaflow said:
Jules Bianchi - Hit a wheel loader
Jules hit the back/bottom edge of the loader counterweight at a glancing angle and speared underneath- if this Halo is very strong (I presume it has to be) I would like to think the car may have behaved differently in that impact, perhaps been deflected more or the loader would have been moved by the halo rather than his head... RIP Jules :-(To say "it would not have helped" as a factoid is a bit naive IMO.
An F1 car, even with alot of momentum is still "light" and hitting heavy (wheeled loaders) or solid (walls) objects is a problem, while most of the car is a crumple zone to dissipate energy a solid roll bar around the driver "may" deflect the car away from things that could hit his/her head. That is potentially a good thing.
Until they do/show some crash testing footage/results we're not know.
However, I return to my initial gut reaction- its eye gougingly ugly
Megaflow said:
It is only my opinion, but I don't believe it would have helped him. That wheel loader weighed 8 tonnes. Very little is going to stand up against that when moving at the speed of an F1 car.
Agree that it should be treated as an immovable object for the purposes of a crash, but he was doing 126 kph. It might have made it survivable? Was it the deceleration that caused the basal fracture, or the impact with the crane?Looks dreadful. Is this really the best that the world of F1 can come up with??
I still maintain a windscreen of some description is the best answer, it would be far easier to come up with a tear off/rip 'n' roll system than nailing that s
t to a car. Still don't think any of them would have saved Wilson or Surtees where the object was falling into the drivers path.
I still maintain a windscreen of some description is the best answer, it would be far easier to come up with a tear off/rip 'n' roll system than nailing that s
t to a car. Still don't think any of them would have saved Wilson or Surtees where the object was falling into the drivers path.Gassing Station | Formula 1 | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff