New HALO system tested

[greygoose]

Some Gump said:

There is no fun whatsoever seeing someone hurt in Motorsport. You lot saying "people want to watch heroes" are just mind boggling - what is heroic about avoidable danger? That's stupidity, not heroism.

I get that the halo test mule is ugly, but modern f1 cars are already butt ugly with their rediculously proportioned wings and contrived noses. I'm still in agreement with Vettel - I'd rather see something slightly less aesthetically pleasing, and still be able to watch Justin Wilson take up the fight for the Brits in Indycar.

I agree, the cars are ugly as sin so some safety equipment doesn't ruin anything.

[BarbaricAvatar]

Some Gump said:

There is no fun whatsoever seeing someone hurt in Motorsport. You lot saying "people want to watch heroes" are just mind boggling - what is heroic about avoidable danger? That's stupidity, not heroism.

I get that the halo test mule is ugly, but modern f1 cars are already butt ugly with their rediculously proportioned wings and contrived noses. I'm still in agreement with Vettel - I'd rather see something slightly less aesthetically pleasing, and still be able to watch Justin Wilson take up the fight for the Brits in Indycar.

Indycar is completely different. When you race around banked tracks with nothing more than concrete walls surrounding the cars then you're just asking for trouble and Justin's accident simply would not have occurred on a normal flat racing track with run-off. Would Felipe Massa have survived if turn 4 was lined with concrete? Doubtful.

With logic like yours F1 will become a rubber car race at 70mph over 20 laps because anything above that will be deemed to be an "avoidable danger". You can't have it both ways, you can't preserve the spirit of the Formula while at the same time waving a book of Health & Safety at it. The risk is acceptable, these guys have worked their way up through many (considerably more dangerous) lower racing series and get paid millions to take risks at high speeds, take the risk away and what have you got? 22 rich kids playing "Guess whose botty is poking through the hole in the curtain".

I don't really care that the cars aren't supermodels anymore, they're at least better looking now than they were 6 years ago. I just want to see 22 great drivers throwing caution to the wind in the name of being Number 1. Do you think Max Verstappen was thinking "Oooh dear, i might get hurt if i try to overtake around the outside at Blanchimont"? Or Mark Webber thought "I've been upside-down twice already in my career and this accident will be monumental and probably fatal if i go wheel-to-wheel with Alonso entering Eau Rouge"? No, of course not, because they're racing drivers, they accept the risks and they're going to do it anyway.

Irrespective of what you or i say on these boards, some form of head-protection will be applied in 2017 and hopefully it won't look like Ferrari's "Whale tail" solution. But the sport will become something that nanny-state busybodies (cowards) find acceptable, so any respect i currently have for the drivers will be lost; they're not doing anything more dangerous than i would be driving to Waitrose on a Sunday.

[suffolk009]

Gary Anderson in Autosport today points out that whilst this Halo might deflect things over the top, other things may also be deflected underneath, and onto the drivers.

I've also just looked at a James Allen piece with pictures of some of the FIA tests. It's interesting that they've tested the various options by firing tyres at the test rigs. Not tyres on wheels, or tyres on wheels with suspension arms attached.

I'm no scientist, but it seems to me that they're not being very thorough about any of this.

[24lemons]

Interesting to read what Indycar drivers make of it, and also to hear that Indycar are looking at their own form of head protection.

http://www.racer.com/indycar/item/127020-indycar-d...

[Disastrous]

Some Gump said:

There is no fun whatsoever seeing someone hurt in Motorsport. You lot saying "people want to watch heroes" are just mind boggling - what is heroic about avoidable danger? That's stupidity, not heroism.

Where do you stand on stuff like the TT?

I appreciate that it's not very right-on to say but dangerous things have attracted man since time immemorial. I guess we used to get our kicks hunting for dinner but now we've 'evolved' we still have that part of us that responds well to adrenalin and seeks thrills.

As far as I'm concerned, the drivers should be the people deciding what level of risk they feel comfortable with. Not anyone else. Spectators can vote with their feet if they feel a formula is too dangerous or not dangerous enough for them but the drivers are the ones facing it so their choice. If they're happy, I'm happy.

[Vaud]

There is a balance. Even TT riders wear helmets and safety gear?

[Disastrous]

Vaud said:

There is a balance. Even TT riders wear helmets and safety gear?

Well, not that it does much good if you hit a lamppost at 130 but yes they do. They don't campaign to make it safer though.

I'm not anti-safety if that's what you got from my post. I'm just anti anyone but the participants meddling with it, especially if it's at the cost of some of the excitement.

[Vaud]

Disastrous said:

Well, not that it does much good if you hit a lamppost at 130 but yes they do. They don't campaign to make it safer though.

I'm not anti-safety if that's what you got from my post. I'm just anti anyone but the participants meddling with it, especially if it's at the cost of some of the excitement.

I think the participants are the constructor and the driver in F1.

I'm undecided on the halo. HANS, helmets and fireproof overalls, together with improvements in impact tests are fine by me.

The public don't want to see their heroes dying at the weekend. Nor do sponsors.

TT is a niche.

[Eric Mc]

EVERY sport is a niche. F1 is a niche to many - and a niche that's getting smaller.

[Doink]

Red bulls version

http://blackflag.jalopnik.com/red-bull-wants-to-pr...

I knew they'd copy my idea of just wrapping a screen round it

[Ian974]

As LMP cars seem to have gone back and forth between open and closed cockpits a few times since the mid-late 90's and looking at the overall chassis makeup, would there be any significant issue in effectively building an open wheel LMP chassis?

The f1 design rules haven't exactly been consistent for long periods, every year is more or less a ground up design anyway so rather than messing about with what is beginning to look like a bodged solution (I'm not bothered by the aesthetics of it, but regardless of whether it is or not, that really does not look like a well engineered solution), if they want to make it safer why not run an LMP style tub for a couple of seasons? It can be changed back if the drivers/ fans don't like it. I'd consider the open wheel single seat design as being more core to formula 1 than whether or not it has a roof.

[longshot]

Doink said:

Red bulls version

http://blackflag.jalopnik.com/red-bull-wants-to-pr...

I knew they'd copy my idea of just wrapping a screen round it

I've been told by someone who should know that McLaren want a screen too.

[fatbutt]

Doink said:

Red bulls version

http://blackflag.jalopnik.com/red-bull-wants-to-pr...

I knew they'd copy my idea of just wrapping a screen round it

I prefer this approach but why retain the two uprights at the front that (slightly) block the drivers view? Surely you make the 'plastic' structurally strong enough so you don't need them. A curved piece of plastic, if a good 10mm thick, is quite strong.

[Eric Mc]

That's a far more elegant solution - and in keeping with the basic "style" of an F1 car.

[Doink]

I dont understand why some people in F1 are making it so complicated or dead against screens, merc publish their halo, OK not the prettiest thing but wrap a screen round it and it all of a sudden looks 100% better, Ferrari idea looks like a flip flop but wrap a screen round it and it looks better, redbull do just that and barring a few tweaks looks like the best of the bunch

[24lemons]

Doink said:

I dont understand why some people in F1 are making it so complicated or dead against screens, merc publish their halo, OK not the prettiest thing but wrap a screen round it and it all of a sudden looks 100% better, Ferrari idea looks like a flip flop but wrap a screen round it and it looks better, redbull do just that and barring a few tweaks looks like the best of the bunch

Yep, I think its a very sensible looking solution. The car is still open cockpit and I'm sure that it isn't beyond the reach of F1 engineers to devise a method of keeping the screen clear. It's not a million miles away from the sort of screens you used to see on racing cars in the 70's either.

[patmahe]

Maybe its already been discussed but why are these 'halos' considered a better solution than a jet fighter style canopy? I'm aware there will be some visual distortion, but is that the main reason it was rejected?

FWIW I'm in favour of some kind of head protection for drivers, I just wonder if this is the best solution.

[rscott]

Far as I can remember, there were several reasons they rejected a canopy - weight, visibility issues (distortion & dirt), potential problems escaping an inverted vehicle...

Red Bull seem to have taken the lazy way out - stuck a screen on without solving the big issue with that others have already highlighted. How to keep it clean..

[patmahe]

rscott said:

Far as I can remember, there were several reasons they rejected a canopy - weight, visibility issues (distortion & dirt), potential problems escaping an inverted vehicle...

Red Bull seem to have taken the lazy way out - stuck a screen on without solving the big issue with that others have already highlighted. How to keep it clean..

I see, not arguing with you, but just expressing an opinion, surely the weight penalty would be the same for everybody, could even be a standardised part. The dirt could be taken care of with a windscreen wiper and tearoffs at pitstops, and I don't see how the HALO solves the inverted vehicle problem in fact if anything shattered carbon fibre (assuming thats what its made from) could become quite 'stabby' if broken during a car becoming inverted. Plus a canopy would deflect all debris no matter how small.

I guess someone who knows more about F1 than me has thought about this and I'm not seeing the full picture.

[TheExcession]

patmahe said:

I guess someone who knows more about F1 than me has thought about this and I'm not seeing the full picture.

Me too

Why not put in a mandated FIA ejector seat? The driver could have a big red button in the middle of the steering wheel. Push it and BAM! I'm out of here. The car could probably make the same decision too - you know fit a reversing parking sensor from a Mini to fling the driver out of the car if someone approaches too fast.

That would be so much fun to watch. You're not going fast enough - the car behind approaching so quickly - BAM! you're in the air whilst the car goes straight on.

What's not to like?

Forgot to add - drivers need parchutes