Greatest Driver of all time statistical analysis
Discussion
el stovey said:
I've applied some statistics and come up with this list.
1) Clark
2) Hunt
3) Stewart
4) Moss
5) Hamilton
6) G Hill
7) Mansell
8) Fangio
9) Senna
10) Prost
Any Top10 F1 list without Schuey isn't correct IMHO.1) Clark
2) Hunt
3) Stewart
4) Moss
5) Hamilton
6) G Hill
7) Mansell
8) Fangio
9) Senna
10) Prost
My bias stems from Mansell not signing an autograph in the early 1990s, whereas Michael had no objections to doing so.. also IMHO, James Hunt and Jenson Button should get bonus points for their "enjoyment" of the F1 carnival
mcflurry said:
Any Top10 F1 list without Schuey isn't correct IMHO.
He may not be everyone's favourite but any Top 10 list excluding MS is a mockery.FWIW I met him on three occasions and each time he was very friendly, chatty and pleasant. Even when he had to go into an engineers meeting he excused himself and wished me well.
Don't believe the media hype.
I don't think the media EVER hyped Schumacher's bad behaviour on track. They didn't need to. He was perfectly capable of tarnishing his own reputation without any assistance.
Off track, like Senna, I am sure he was the utmost caring individual. On track, he (and Senna) were different animals.
Off track, like Senna, I am sure he was the utmost caring individual. On track, he (and Senna) were different animals.
Eric Mc said:
I don't think the media EVER hyped Schumacher's bad behaviour on track. They didn't need to. He was perfectly capable of tarnishing his own reputation without any assistance.
Off track, like Senna, I am sure he was the utmost caring individual. On track, he (and Senna) were different animals.
Not sure what media you were looking at for over 20 years but every UK tabloid had a field day with him and crucified every move he made with a healthy dose of xenophobia thrown in for good measure which those unable to make objective judgments bought into lock stock.Off track, like Senna, I am sure he was the utmost caring individual. On track, he (and Senna) were different animals.
I also had a chat with Damon Hill about MS once and it's interesting how respected he was by his peers (and those whom the tabloids alleged he had huge issues with). Damon did not even seem that upset by Adelaide 94 though it was many years later. He said he had an outside chance at best that year which was exaggerated by the points taken away from MS during the summer.
andyps said:
el stovey said:
I've applied some statistics and come up with this list.
1) Clark
2) Hunt
3) Stewart
4) Moss
5) Hamilton
6) G Hill
7) Mansell
8) Fangio
9) Senna
10) Prost
Your statistical calculations seem to have slipped up from position 8 down as they haven't sufficiently biased UK drivers 1) Clark
2) Hunt
3) Stewart
4) Moss
5) Hamilton
6) G Hill
7) Mansell
8) Fangio
9) Senna
10) Prost
cgt2 said:
Not sure what media you were looking at for over 20 years but every UK tabloid had a field day with him and crucified every move he made with a healthy dose of xenophobia thrown in for good measure which those unable to make objective judgments bought into lock stock.
I also had a chat with Damon Hill about MS once and it's interesting how respected he was by his peers (and those whom the tabloids alleged he had huge issues with). Damon did not even seem that upset by Adelaide 94 though it was many years later. He said he had an outside chance at best that year which was exaggerated by the points taken away from MS during the summer.
Aha - "tabloids" you say!!!!!!!I also had a chat with Damon Hill about MS once and it's interesting how respected he was by his peers (and those whom the tabloids alleged he had huge issues with). Damon did not even seem that upset by Adelaide 94 though it was many years later. He said he had an outside chance at best that year which was exaggerated by the points taken away from MS during the summer.
cgt2 said:
Eric Mc said:
I don't think the media EVER hyped Schumacher's bad behaviour on track. They didn't need to. He was perfectly capable of tarnishing his own reputation without any assistance.
Off track, like Senna, I am sure he was the utmost caring individual. On track, he (and Senna) were different animals.
Not sure what media you were looking at for over 20 years but every UK tabloid had a field day with him and crucified every move he made with a healthy dose of xenophobia thrown in for good measure which those unable to make objective judgments bought into lock stock.Off track, like Senna, I am sure he was the utmost caring individual. On track, he (and Senna) were different animals.
I also had a chat with Damon Hill about MS once and it's interesting how respected he was by his peers (and those whom the tabloids alleged he had huge issues with). Damon did not even seem that upset by Adelaide 94 though it was many years later. He said he had an outside chance at best that year which was exaggerated by the points taken away from MS during the summer.
cgt2 said:
mcflurry said:
Any Top10 F1 list without Schuey isn't correct IMHO.
He may not be everyone's favourite but any Top 10 list excluding MS is a mockery.FWIW I met him on three occasions and each time he was very friendly, chatty and pleasant. Even when he had to go into an engineers meeting he excused himself and wished me well.
Don't believe the media hype.
VladD said:
I never understand this type of argument. I'm sure thousands of people met Jimmy Saville and thought he was a lovely man. I'm not comparing the two, I'm just saying that meeting someone and finding them personable is no real indication of who they really are.
You are correct but for someone who was treated as F1's version of a pantomine villain for so many years it was pleasant to find the reality was very different. I also know many people who are moderately successful and have the most puffed up over inflated egos, so it was nice to see someone who has smashed all F1 records and had every reason to be obnoxious being very personable and friendly, that is all.
Sadly, the way this year is going I get the feeling we are going to have some bad news about Schumacher soon. Whatever people's views of him it is a tragic situation for his family.
cgt2 said:
VladD said:
I never understand this type of argument. I'm sure thousands of people met Jimmy Saville and thought he was a lovely man. I'm not comparing the two, I'm just saying that meeting someone and finding them personable is no real indication of who they really are.
You are correct but for someone who was treated as F1's version of a pantomine villain for so many years it was pleasant to find the reality was very different. I also know many people who are moderately successful and have the most puffed up over inflated egos, so it was nice to see someone who has smashed all F1 records and had every reason to be obnoxious being very personable and friendly, that is all.
Sadly, the way this year is going I get the feeling we are going to have some bad news about Schumacher soon. Whatever people's views of him it is a tragic situation for his family.
"Greatness" in sport is not ONLY about results but also about character and sportsmanship. In the latter areas, Schumacher falls well short (irrespective of what he is/was like away from the race track).
And , as I mentioned earlier, the survey was nothing to do with defining "greatness".
And , as I mentioned earlier, the survey was nothing to do with defining "greatness".
whatxd said:
VladD said:
It's a shame we don't have clarity on how great he really was.
We do have clarity and it can be found at the top of every meaningful Formula 1 record.If you want to put that down to "alleged Ferrari favouritism" or "running people off the road" then that's your business.
VladD said:
Success and greatness aren't the same thing, which was my point. You can't argue with the success, but you can make arguments about the greatness.
Well in my opinion, you are pretty great if you smash every Formula 1 record. The controversies along the way (which only count for a fraction of his success anyway) do not change my opinion on that.In football, I'm pretty sure Luis Suarez will be remembered as one of the greatest strikers ever, despite him missing almost an entire season's worth of football due to biting and racism.
Ultimately, some people can look past a person's mistakes/flaws to see how great they are, others can't.
whatxd said:
Ultimately, some people can look past a person's mistakes/flaws to see how great they are, others can't.
Only if they if they are of the opinion that a person's behaviour in sport matters not a jot - as long as they get the desired results.In other words - the ends justifies the means.
whatxd said:
Ultimately, some people can look past a person's mistakes/flaws to see how great they are, others can't.
But that makes no sense. If the achievements add to the greatness then the flaws and mistakes subtract from it. By completely ignoring one or the other you're not getting the complete picture and you're getting a distorted view.Gassing Station | Formula 1 | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff