Kvyat for the chop mid season?

Kvyat for the chop mid season?

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Discussion

jbudgie

8,841 posts

211 months

Monday 2nd May 2016
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rubystone said:
Baryonyx said:
He deserves to go after that blunder today.
I wouldn't be that hard on Vettel. He's a good driver.
wink

jamiebae

Original Poster:

6,245 posts

210 months

Monday 2nd May 2016
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rubystone said:
There's no doubt Kvyat is driving for his seat. There's also no doubt that RBR have to promote Max to a race seat in order to keep him for 2017.

There's a every possibility that they would let Ricciardo go as a 'sacrifice' to Ferrari in order to keep Max, which means that there is still a chance for Kvyat to keep his seat if he impresses this year. He was promoted a year early to RBR largely because of the deal with Max.
I don't think Ferrari will take Ricciardo - it would upset Vettel and given what they have invested in him, he will have some say in the decision for sure. I think at the moment Grosjean is in pole position for that drive but who knows how the season will unfold and that could change everything again.

ajprice

27,316 posts

195 months

Monday 2nd May 2016
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Is it too early yet for a 2017 silly season thread? hehe

rubystone

11,252 posts

258 months

Monday 2nd May 2016
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jamiebae said:
I don't think Ferrari will take Ricciardo - it would upset Vettel and given what they have invested in him, he will have some say in the decision for sure. I think at the moment Grosjean is in pole position for that drive but who knows how the season will unfold and that could change everything again.
You could be right. Unless they want to fire a rocket up him...

Likes Fast Cars

2,769 posts

164 months

Monday 2nd May 2016
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rubystone said:
jamiebae said:
I don't think Ferrari will take Ricciardo - it would upset Vettel and given what they have invested in him, he will have some say in the decision for sure. I think at the moment Grosjean is in pole position for that drive but who knows how the season will unfold and that could change everything again.
You could be right. Unless they want to fire a rocket up him...
Ricciardio is the closet Ferrari will get to an Italian driver (he may even have dual nationality??), and he can win races. Would make a lot of sense.

m444ttb

3,160 posts

228 months

Monday 2nd May 2016
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I'm unsure whether they will drop him mid-season but I'm certain he will go at the end of the season to get Verstappen in. There may be some dependence on Ferrari but I suspect if RedBulls performance moves forward with the spec engine then he may well take it rather than sit another year in a Torro Rosso. Does anyone know who is next up in the RedBull driver prog to go to F1? Although Verstappen wasn't in it prior to F1 was he so perhaps that doesn't matter?

Redlake27

2,255 posts

243 months

Tuesday 3rd May 2016
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Seb is very keen to persuade Horner to swap Kyvat and Verstappen because;

1) Vettel thinks he is a liability? or
2) If Red Bull don't keep Max happy, he becomes a target for Ferrari to sign as Seb's teammate?



Rude-boy

22,227 posts

232 months

Tuesday 3rd May 2016
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Redlake27 said:
Seb is very keen to persuade Horner to swap Kyvat and Verstappen because;

1) Vettel thinks he is a liability? or
2) If Red Bull don't keep Max happy, he becomes a target for Ferrari to sign as Seb's teammate?
A little of both I'd say.

I am not, and never have been, a fan of Kvyat. I was 100% on his side a few weeks back but this time put the blame fully upon him. Someone said earlier that you don't expect the driver in front to 'park it mid corner.' No you don't as a rule, but then again if you have just shoved your nose right into the back of their car hard enough to make it lift off the ground and into another car you might think that there could be some chance of a puncture or other damage. You might think that having just been in a full on turn one shoveathon some of the cars that escaped it ahead of you might be carrying damage or not be on their usual pace.

Honestly i think that there is no defence for Kvyat on either count over what happened on Sunday.

Should he be dropped? I am not sure. I certainly don't think that there is a place for him next season and certainly don't think that he has anything like the potential Bigjohn showed. He proved that if he could keep the car on the track he could win. Kvyat has not shown that to me. I therefore think that this will be his last year with Red Bull.

Should he be dropped mid season - Hard to call. He might just go out there with a sore arse and spend the rest of the season proving me wrong and that he is a man with potential WDC over his head. I doubt it though and therefore if it were a question of bin him to keep Verstappen I would be looking for the P45. Other than that though i would be inclined to keep the faith until the end of the year. It's not like there is a shortage of very promising talent coming up behind.

Next question - who has the balls to sign Lando Norris...

VolvoT5

4,155 posts

173 months

Tuesday 3rd May 2016
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HustleRussell said:
I don't like Kvyat.

He's had some good drives but he's not a stand-out performer.

Out of the car his manner is obtuse and unapologetic. He doesn't seem smart. That he simply poked his bottom lip out, shrugged and blamed his team for his brake balance settings when interviewed about yesterday's race just demonstrates this. From my experience, he is a typical Russian.



Edited by HustleRussell on Monday 2nd May 11:25
Sorry but for me the casual racism just invalidates any point you were trying to make.

I think it is quite unfair that Kvyat is being labelled a crash king now... he had one incident this season, yeah it was pretty clumsy but all drivers make mistakes. China was nothing to do with him, why Vettel felt the need to bring it up again in Russia I'm not sure.

Kvyat may not be top seat material but when you look at the other mid field drivers he more than holds his own. If Redbull do bin him off I hope he is given a chance to redeem himself at Toro Rosso or another team. He is only 22 and under immense pressure, he deserves a second chance IMO.

barryrs

4,376 posts

222 months

Tuesday 3rd May 2016
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I would say Kvyat's seat is safe in F1 for the time being as Bernie is pushing F1 popularity in Russia and he needs a driver for them to support.

HustleRussell

24,602 posts

159 months

Tuesday 3rd May 2016
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VolvoT5 said:
HustleRussell said:
I don't like Kvyat.

He's had some good drives but he's not a stand-out performer.

Out of the car his manner is obtuse and unapologetic. He doesn't seem smart. That he simply poked his bottom lip out, shrugged and blamed his team for his brake balance settings when interviewed about yesterday's race just demonstrates this. From my experience, he is a typical Russian.
Sorry but for me the casual racism just invalidates any point you were trying to make.

I think it is quite unfair that Kvyat is being labelled a crash king now... he had one incident this season, yeah it was pretty clumsy but all drivers make mistakes. China was nothing to do with him, why Vettel felt the need to bring it up again in Russia I'm not sure.

Kvyat may not be top seat material but when you look at the other mid field drivers he more than holds his own. If Redbull do bin him off I hope he is given a chance to redeem himself at Toro Rosso or another team. He is only 22 and under immense pressure, he deserves a second chance IMO.
There's no need to apologise, I can live with that.

Personally I really take exception to him blaming the team for what ultimately was his mistake at T2. The team does not twiddle the brake balance adjustment knob on the steering wheel and the team does not pick his braking point. Kvyat, with the experience he now has, and with the example of plenty of more professional peers and team mates, should know better. He braked so much later than the cars in front, with absolutely no apparent gap, overtaking opportunity or escape route, locking up his tyres and colliding with Vettel pushing him into Riccardo, and he blames Red Bull for it?

Arrogance.

Turn three wasn't Kvyat's fault, I do feel he could've been smarter though.

Vettel's collision with Raikkonnen in China was not Kvyat's fault.

Trevatanus

11,109 posts

149 months

Derek Smith

45,512 posts

247 months

Tuesday 3rd May 2016
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barryrs said:
I would say Kvyat's seat is safe in F1 for the time being as Bernie is pushing F1 popularity in Russia and he needs a driver for them to support.
Indeed.

Ecclestone want's Russia to remain. If it has no driver, the supporters will drift away. I'd suggest that out of the two Ecclestone will go first. The question remains as to how long Kyvat will outlast him. How much money does he bring to a team?


jamiebae

Original Poster:

6,245 posts

210 months

Tuesday 3rd May 2016
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Derek Smith said:
barryrs said:
I would say Kvyat's seat is safe in F1 for the time being as Bernie is pushing F1 popularity in Russia and he needs a driver for them to support.
Indeed.

Ecclestone want's Russia to remain. If it has no driver, the supporters will drift away. I'd suggest that out of the two Ecclestone will go first. The question remains as to how long Kyvat will outlast him. How much money does he bring to a team?
More chance of Sirotkin getting into a Renault I'd expect.

VolvoT5

4,155 posts

173 months

Tuesday 3rd May 2016
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The depressing thing is everyone wants Kvyat out so Verstappen can be moved in............ but you just know if Max makes a couple of similar errors (quite likely given how he drives and his relative lack of experience) the same knee jerk commentators will be demanding he is kicked out as well.

One mistake... I think the reaction is totally OTT. So what if he has moaned about the car set up or team; I can't remember the last time a driver didn't try and deflect responsibility away from their own mistake.

jamiebae

Original Poster:

6,245 posts

210 months

Tuesday 3rd May 2016
quotequote all
VolvoT5 said:
The depressing thing is everyone wants Kvyat out so Verstappen can be moved in............ but you just know if Max makes a couple of similar errors (quite likely given how he drives and his relative lack of experience) the same knee jerk commentators will be demanding he is kicked out as well.

One mistake... I think the reaction is totally OTT. So what if he has moaned about the car set up or team; I can't remember the last time a driver didn't try and deflect responsibility away from their own mistake.
He hasn't really shone in the RB team, that's the issue. He's now making mistakes and over-driving to try and compensate but fundamentally he doesn't seem to have the speed to beat his teammate.

Yes, Verstappen might also struggle to find is feet at the senior team but that's just how F1 works - if you want a top drive you've got to be seriously good to win and keep it. There are plenty of seats out there if Kvyat can bring some budget to the table but on pure talent alone he isn't doing the business right now.

VolvoT5

4,155 posts

173 months

Tuesday 3rd May 2016
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jamiebae said:
He hasn't really shone in the RB team, that's the issue. He's now making mistakes and over-driving to try and compensate but fundamentally he doesn't seem to have the speed to beat his teammate.

Yes, Verstappen might also struggle to find is feet at the senior team but that's just how F1 works - if you want a top drive you've got to be seriously good to win and keep it. There are plenty of seats out there if Kvyat can bring some budget to the table but on pure talent alone he isn't doing the business right now.
The car has been crap for the last two years, arguably the Toro Rosso has been the better car to drive if not actually faster. Also he is teamed up against someone almost everyone rates extremely highly and a lot of people think is better than a 4 time WDC. It is pretty hard to shine under such circumstances.

I suspect if he were at TR with less pressure and up against Sainz or Verstappen he would be holding his own. It may have been too soon to move him to the main team but people are comparing him to Maldonado which is just ridiculous.

Yes it was a mistake in Russia (though not as bad as many are making out, the second contact was arguably a racing incident), but he is coming off the back of a brilliant move and unexpected podium in China. This just shows the line between brilliance and total failure is tiny. He he is still young and relatively inexperienced.......other drivers like Perez and Grosjean have been given time to mature and come good.

I'm just not a fan of the way Redbull seem to dispose of their drivers. I think assuming no further disasters I think he at least deserves a switch back to TR. I also think Verstappen may regret pushing to get into the main team so quickly, it is quite likely he could get chewed up and spat out in exactly the same way.




Edited by VolvoT5 on Tuesday 3rd May 18:54

The Moose

22,821 posts

208 months

Tuesday 3rd May 2016
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VolvoT5 said:
Sorry but for me the casual racism just invalidates any point you were trying to make.
That's hardly casual racism rolleyes

VolvoT5

4,155 posts

173 months

Tuesday 3rd May 2016
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The Moose said:
That's hardly casual racism rolleyes
Well he described in a very negative way Kvyat's manner as being "obtuse and unapologetic" and "not that smart". He then went on to apply that description to a whole group of people because apparently being that way is 'typical' for them.

Change the word Russian to Black or Jew and tell me his comment isn't racist or at least pretty offensive.

rubystone

11,252 posts

258 months

Tuesday 3rd May 2016
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barryrs said:
I would say Kvyat's seat is safe in F1 for the time being as Bernie is pushing F1 popularity in Russia and he needs a driver for them to support.
Sirotkin is a handy backup then....