Kvyat for the chop mid season?

[Leithen]

I hope for Ricciardo's sake he lands a good seat elsewhere very quickly.

[Vaud]

rsbmw said:

Ricciardo and Verstappen is a solid driver line-up, I would put both in my top 5 current drivers along with Hamilton, Vettel and Alonso. If Red Bull have a competitive car next season (or even later this season?) it should be a formidable team.

Agreed. Big engine upgrade coming in August, the rumours are that it will bring them to parity with Ferrari and maybe ahead.

[Likes Fast Cars]

Leithen said:

I hope for Ricciardo's sake he lands a good seat elsewhere very quickly.

Why?

[hairyben]

wow thats some cold st right there.



Any coincidence it happened after the russian GP?

While kvyats race might have given them an excuse it seems a gross over reaction to one donkey 5 seconds and maybe a couple of poor quallis

[Vaud]

hairyben said:

While kvyats race might have given them an excuse it seems a gross over reaction to one donkey 5 seconds and maybe a couple of poor quallis

Depends, I don't think we have enough facts to make that call.

Perhaps Verstappen has an offer from Mercedes or Ferrari? I've no doubt that all top teams would want him.

If you were RB, what would you do? The only counter you can give is a better seat, even if that costs you one of your other drivers.

I think it's less about demoting Kvyat, more about retaining Verstappen, but that's just my armchair expert view. Kvyat is the most expendable from the top seats.

[Redlake27]

Vaud said:

hairyben said:

While kvyats race might have given them an excuse it seems a gross over reaction to one donkey 5 seconds and maybe a couple of poor quallis

Depends, I don't think we have enough facts to make that call.

Perhaps Verstappen has an offer from Mercedes or Ferrari? I've no doubt that all top teams would want him.

If you were RB, what would you do? The only counter you can give is a better seat, even if that costs you one of your other drivers.

I think it's less about demoting Kvyat, more about retaining Verstappen, but that's just my armchair expert view. Kvyat is the most expendable from the top seats.

I think that is a fair perspective. Red Bull have nothing to lose. They are not in a title winning position this year, so they can afford to try out Max under intense pressure, retain Kyvat in the family (in a top 8 car), bat off any Merc/Ferrari approaches for Max and amass enough data to rank all four of their current drivers before making their next long term decision. Sensible, in my view.

The Kyvat v Sainz battle will be interesting. It's like an X-Factor sing-off.

[joefraser]

Wow. Did not realistically see this happening, my money is on other teams sniffing around max motivating the move by Red Bull.

[rubystone]

Redlake27 said:

I think that is a fair perspective. Red Bull have nothing to lose. They are not in a title winning position this year, so they can afford to try out Max under intense pressure, retain Kyvat in the family (in a top 8 car), bat off any Merc/Ferrari approaches for Max and amass enough data to rank all four of their current drivers before making their next long term decision. Sensible, in my view.

The Kyvat v Sainz battle will be interesting. It's like an X-Factor sing-off.

Yes I think you're right.

[Bradgate]

That is a seriously ruthless decision. Kvyat was obviously trying too hard at his home race, and screwed up in a big way, but he's young, he isn't the first driver to do that and he won't be the last.

I wonder if the real motivation behind this move is to keep Verstappen at all costs? A Ferrari seat will probably be available next year, so who are the potential candidates to fill it? Ricciardo has to be near the top of the list. He is a proven race winner and he is the nearest thing to an Italian driver they are going to get.

If Ricciardo goes to Maranello, RBR need a potential world champion to lead their team. They clearly believe Max is that driver, so they have to keep him.

[thatguy11]

The way Red Bull treats young drivers is truly shocking, it's clear Kvyat is just the scapegoat for getting Verstappen into the A team and away from the prying hands of any other teams. Yes it's a great opportunity for Max and one he's arguably earned, but it's such a blow for Kvyat to be dumped just one race after scoring Red Bull's only podium finish so far this season.

Verstappen is quite obviously an incredible talent, but now he's in the senior team he needs to stop the childish whining and hot-headedness. Because in the car on the other side of the garage is another outstanding driver with proven racecraft and pace, but one who doesn't even know the meaning of the word "petulant".

I'm fond of Verstappen and his talents are quite clearly incredibly special, but I'm a huge Daniel Ricciardo fan and quite personally I hope he shows Verstappen his rear wing

[Likes Fast Cars]

thatguy11 said:

...but I'm a huge Daniel Ricciardo fan and quite personally I hope he shows Verstappen his rear wing

+1

Not that I dislike Verstappen. It would be great to see DR keeping himself ahead of his team-mate.

[ajprice]

Jenson Button's Twitter said:

Really? one bad race and Kyvat's dropped, what about the podium in the previous race? #Shortmemories https://t.co/8YDBZPDP3v

[whatxd]

It's pretty clear that Kvyat was a dead man walking. If he'd have had an amazing Russian GP but then a calamitous Spanish GP, they'd have just made the switch then instead.

[Likes Fast Cars]

Interesting that JB sees Kvyat as having had only 1 bad race. Yeah, yeah I know many will have their views about the situation but really two races in a row? Where there's smoke there's fire. For whatever reason Kvyat was not handling the (internal pressure?) situation well.

[Bradgate]

thatguy11 said:

The way Red Bull treats young drivers is truly shocking, it's clear Kvyat is just the scapegoat for getting Verstappen into the A team and away from the prying hands of any other teams. Yes it's a great opportunity for Max and one he's arguably earned, but it's such a blow for Kvyat to be dumped just one race after scoring Red Bull's only podium finish so far this season.

Verstappen is quite obviously an incredible talent, but now he's in the senior team he needs to stop the childish whining and hot-headedness. Because in the car on the other side of the garage is another outstanding driver with proven racecraft and pace, but one who doesn't even know the meaning of the word "petulant".

I'm fond of Verstappen and his talents are quite clearly incredibly special, but I'm a huge Daniel Ricciardo fan and quite personally I hope he shows Verstappen his rear wing

"Childish whining"? The kid is 18, FFS!

[Leithen]

Likes Fast Cars said:

Why?

Several reasons.

An unfortunate string of bad results and some teenager will suddenly have his seat.

His team management have proven once again what a bunch of s they are.

There's a Ferrari seat going and whilst Marchionne is just as ruthless as Mateschitz, he wouldn't have to cope with Dr Darkness prowling in the background.

I suspect Carlos Sainz Snr will be having dinner with Marchionne very soon.

[VolvoT5]

thatguy11 said:

The way Red Bull treats young drivers is truly shocking, it's clear Kvyat is just the scapegoat for getting Verstappen into the A team and away from the prying hands of any other teams. Yes it's a great opportunity for Max and one he's arguably earned, but it's such a blow for Kvyat to be dumped just one race after scoring Red Bull's only podium finish so far this season.

I agree.

Clearly they have been looking for a way to get Max into the main team since for some time and the incident in Russia was the perfect excuse/reason. Why they didn't just make the call at the end of last year I don't know. I think you are right, probably Ferrari have been sniffing around and while they have Ricciardo tied down for 2017 they needed to secure Max as well.

This mid season switch could be beneficial for both drivers...... or it could be disruptive and disastrous for both. It will be incredibly challenging for Max to compete with Ricciardo whist having to make a sudden adjustment to a new car and team, he could end up getting spanked and destroying his career before it has even taken off. As for Kvyat, well whatever way this is dressed up it will be embarrassing and humiliating for him to be forced out mid season. I'm really not sure he deserves it for the one mistake he has made.

At least they have given Kvyat a chance to remain in F1. I think as he is only 22 and still relatively inexperienced he doesn't deserve to be chucked aside just yet (mind you nor some of the other Redbull talent such as JEV).

Edited by VolvoT5 on Thursday 5th May 10:23

[VolvoT5]

Leithen said:

There's a Ferrari seat going and whilst Marchionne is just as ruthless as Mateschitz, he wouldn't have to cope with Dr Darkness prowling in the background.

I suspect Carlos Sainz Snr will be having dinner with Marchionne very soon.

IMO there is no way Redbull are going to let Ricciardo go before 2018.
I'm not entirely sure there is a Ferrari seat going, certainly not for the likes of Sainz. It is pretty clear Raikkonen wants to continue if Ferrari want him. It is also not entirely clear what Ferrari want from their second driver - is it someone to score solid points and get the odd win when Vettel is having a bad day, or is it someone to be genuinely competitive with Vettel? If it is the former then they have that in Raikkonen already and if it is the latter then arguably all the guys with the potential to match Vettel are unavailable for next year.

I would not be at all surprised if Ferrari continue with their current line up for 2017. You just know that is what Vettel wants and I suspect Ferrari are looking for reasons to keep Raikkonen in a similar way that Redbull have been looking for reasons to dump Kvyat.

Edited by VolvoT5 on Thursday 5th May 10:30

[Dr Z]

VolvoT5 said:

It is also not entirely clear what Ferrari want from their second driver - is it someone to score solid points and get the odd win when Vettel is having a bad day, or is it someone to be genuinely competitive with Vettel? If it is the former then they have that in Raikkonen already and if it is the latter then arguably all the guys with the potential to match Vettel are unavailable for next year.

What about Bottas? The man is a machine, the way he puts in metronomic lap times.

Am not sure Vettel enjoys as much a status in Ferrari as he did in Red Bull. It is clear that he's not above the team.

[Leithen]

VolvoT5 said:

I'm not entirely sure there is a Ferrari seat going, certainly not for the likes of Sainz. It is pretty clear Raikkonen wants to continue if Ferrari want him. It is also not entirely clear what Ferrari want from their second driver - is it someone to score solid points and get the odd win when Vettel is having a bad day, or is it someone to be genuinely competitive with Vettel? If it is the former then they have that in Raikkonen already and if it is the latter then arguably all the guys with the potential to match Vettel are unavailable for next year.

I would not be at all surprised if Ferrari continue with their current line up for 2017. You just know that is what Vettel wants and I suspect Ferrari are looking for reasons to keep Raikkonen in the same way that Redbull have been looking for reasons to dump Kvyat.

The driver market may well be restricted for 2017 - Ricciardo, Verstappen and Sainz are supposedly contracted with Red Bull through 2017. Positioning for 2018 will be at the top of every driver manager's mind however and is no doubt one of the reasons Verstappen has been promoted now.

Marchionne is not known for his patience and is demanding results. I like Kimi, but it's hard to argue that he isn't at the end of his career. I can't see him in 2018 driving for Ferrari.

Could there be a change at Mercedes for '18? Everything will hinge on it. Sainz could well be the perfect fit for Ferrari and Vettel.