Was it Nico or Lewis at fault in Spain?

[suffolk009]

Lots of pages written on the main GP thread. So here's a poll.
Who was at fault; Rosberg, Lewis, or neither?
I'll send Merc the result via twitter.

[lostkiwi]

For me this image says it all.


Article 27.7 requires the leading driver to leave room, if there is a “significant portion” of the car attempting to pass alongside.”
A significant portion is deemed to be the front wing.

At this point Hamilton is clearly fully on the track and has his front wing overlapping Rosbergs car.
Rosberg clearly in my view did not follow the rule.

[HustleRussell]

Racing incident, as per findings of stewards enquiry- the stewards as always having access to all the data they want plus with their vast experience greater than any current competitor's to draw upon.

Seems churlish to disagree.

[37chevy]

Nico made a mistake and was in wrong engine mode, knowing he had a problem and was slow aggressively blocked leaving Hamilton no room to the side he was already going to.

But having said that everything happened so fast that I'd call it a racing incident

Edited by 37chevy on Monday 16th May 17:14

[Muzzer79]

lostkiwi said:

For me this image says it all.


Article 27.7 requires the leading driver to leave room, if there is a “significant portion” of the car attempting to pass alongside.”
A significant portion is deemed to be the front wing.

At this point Hamilton is clearly fully on the track and has his front wing overlapping Rosbergs car.
Rosberg clearly in my view did not follow the rule.

Racing incident

It's all very well showing a still picture of a moment in time when Lewis' wing was up alongside Nico's rear wheel, but this all happened in milliseconds - they both moved virtually at the same time.

Lewis saw a potential overtake, went for it.
Nico saw a potential overtake, went to defend it.

As soon as they ended up in the gravel trap, I said to my Mrs

"Y'know what? They should both front up in the motorhome, admit that it was 50/50, shake hands and agree that these things happen sometimes when you're racing"

I was disappointed in Lauda's comments straight after the incident; blaming Hamilton. I thought Toto Wolff had it spot on in his assessment.

[Jasandjules]

HustleRussell said:

Racing incident, as per findings of stewards enquiry- the stewards as always having access to all the data they want plus with their vast experience greater than any current competitor's to draw upon.

Seems churlish to disagree.

If it had been drivers from different teams I would suggest Rosberg would have received a penalty - just because of the screen shot above - as soon as I saw that in the Sky Pad post race analysis, I changed my mind - I had initially pegged it as Lewis went for a gap that wasn't there at all. However once you see the onboard you can see there is not only enough space but enough of a speed differential to go for it.

Then Nico's on-board indicates to me he was simply not aware enough and ran Lewis off the road. Worse, it was not the racing line he was defending..

[scrwright]

you could say Hamilton had less of an overlap than Rosberg did at Spa in '14, again neither of them backed out of the incident.

[37chevy]

scrwright said:

you could say Hamilton had less of an overlap than Rosberg did at Spa in '14, again neither of them backed out of the incident.

Entirely different! Lees was turning in for a corner...Nico weaved from one side of a straight to the other and aggressively blocked!

[Superbad]

Given the speed of the cars and the sudden move how could Rosberg have known that Lewis had enough of his car side by side to be given room? If in doubt he had to close the door, Hamilton would have done the same.

I'm sure if the roles had been reversed everyone would be blaming Rosberg. Saying the gap wasn't there. He was too rash, it was only the first lap.

Also, Hamilton put his hands over his helmet when in the gravel, after hitting Rosberg. I took that as 'st, I fuc*** up'.

I still think it was a racing incident. Wasn't surprised the Sky F1 team backing Hamilton though

[deadslow]

as the stewards said (and just about everybody who has actual F1 experience) Lewis was entitled to go for the gap and Nico was entitled to close the door therefore racing incident. Could make the rest of the year a bit more interesting if Nico can no longer be bullied out of the way - he has looked a bit soft going wheel to wheel in the past.

[Blaster72]

Muzzer79 said:

lostkiwi said:

For me this image says it all.


Article 27.7 requires the leading driver to leave room, if there is a “significant portion” of the car attempting to pass alongside.”
A significant portion is deemed to be the front wing.

At this point Hamilton is clearly fully on the track and has his front wing overlapping Rosbergs car.
Rosberg clearly in my view did not follow the rule.

Racing incident

It's all very well showing a still picture of a moment in time when Lewis' wing was up alongside Nico's rear wheel, but this all happened in milliseconds - they both moved virtually at the same time.

Lewis saw a potential overtake, went for it.
Nico saw a potential overtake, went to defend it.

As soon as they ended up in the gravel trap, I said to my Mrs

"Y'know what? They should both front up in the motorhome, admit that it was 50/50, shake hands and agree that these things happen sometimes when you're racing"

I was disappointed in Lauda's comments straight after the incident; blaming Hamilton. I thought Toto Wolff had it spot on in his assessment.

Spot on I'd say, you can't just freeze frame one millisecond of action and use that as evidence.

Why do you think Hamilton covered his face straight after, he knew they'd both been idiots.

[williamp]

or Lewis knew another good chance gone. Lewis has had years like this before, and they have never ended well..

Isn't it odd that Lewis didn't swerve and block Rosberg when he overtook him the previous corner? Lewis gave him room, let him past, didnt run him off the track or anything. Rosberg did just that, went way, way off the racing line to block Lewis, knowing he had less power and was slower and was going to lose one, possibly even 2 places. It was amateur and reckless. Had Lewis not swerved, he would have hit him up the back.

[Clevers]

It wasn't a closing gap that Lewis committed to......it closed afterwards.

I think Rosberg was lucky to get away without a penalty and bas actually won a bit of victory as it's been made to look more Hamilton's fault with Lauda wading in with both feet before watching the replays. The fake indignation during Nico's interview was clever......trying to turn the blame onto Hamilton, a reversal of Spa if you like.

Rosberg's got form - the fake aborted qualifying lap at Monaco, the incident at Spa and now this one.

The guy comes across as 'all Britney Spears' in interviews, but he knows what he is doing.

[scrwright]

During the Spa thing nico got his front wheel along side Lewis in to cockpit, yes on the outside however with people quoting "Article 27.7 requires the leading driver to leave room, if there is a “significant portion” of the car attempting to pass alongside.” I can't see it being different than this incident. The car in front can move once on the track to take the line, in both cases that happened, with a similar result, how you can say Lewis was guilt free in both cases I don't get.

[HustleRussell]

scrwright said:

During the Spa thing nico got his front wheel along side Lewis in to cockpit, yes on the outside however with people quoting "Article 27.7 requires the leading driver to leave room, if there is a “significant portion” of the car attempting to pass alongside.” I can't see it being different than this incident. The car in front can move once on the track to take the line, in both cases that happened, with a similar result, how you can say Lewis was guilt free in both cases I don't get.

Well, because it was an entirely different incident perhaps? For a start, the Spa incident occurred in Les Combes which done be, in fairness, an corner.

[dc2rr07]

Clevers said:

It wasn't a closing gap that Lewis committed to......it closed afterwards.

I think Rosberg was lucky to get away without a penalty and bas actually won a bit of victory as it's been made to look more Hamilton's fault with Lauda wading in with both feet before watching the replays. The fake indignation during Nico's interview was clever......trying to turn the blame onto Hamilton, a reversal of Spa if you like.

Rosberg's got form - the fake aborted qualifying lap at Monaco, the incident at Spa and now this one.

The guy comes across as 'all Britney Spears' in interviews, but he knows what he is doing.

That about sums it up for me as well, I was a bit disappointed with Lauda making a comment so quickly after the incident.

[SeeFive]

Clevers said:

...snip
Rosberg's got form - the fake aborted qualifying lap at Monaco, the incident at Spa and now this one.

The guy comes across as 'all Britney Spears' in interviews, but he knows what he is doing.

Got form? Never, not mr butter-wouldn't-melt. This was the first thing I thought of and I couldn't remember where or when it was until this post appears on the other thread, just knew it was dusty not grassy...

FourWheelDrift said:

Rosberg has form for doing that. Bahrain 2012

Bahrain 2012 incidents.
On Alonso - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k_sMZG0MLcc
On Hamilton - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yC05YfPIBVc

[Vocal Minority]

37chevy said:

Nico made a mistake and was in wrong engine mode, knowing he had a problem and was slow aggressively blocked leaving Hamilton no room to the side he was already going to.

But having said that everything happened so fast that I'd call it a racing incident

Edited by 37chevy on Monday 16th May 17:14

I think the speed it happened at is key. You can provide still photos and refer to the letter of the law as much as you like, but without that context it's pretty useless. The closing speed was such, that the overlap cant have been more than a few tenths of a second.

In my humble opinion, if the roles had been reversed and it was Hamilton closing the door (as he has done before) the result would me be more clear cut - but what do I know?

[EnglishTony]

HustleRussell said:

Well, because it was an entirely different incident perhaps? For a start, the Spa incident occurred in Les Combes which done be, in fairness, an corner.

Thank you DI Blundell

[37chevy]

Vocal Minority said:

I think the speed it happened at is key. You can provide still photos and refer to the letter of the law as much as you like, but without that context it's pretty useless. The closing speed was such, that the overlap cant have been more than a few tenths of a second.

In my humble opinion, if the roles had been reversed and it was Hamilton closing the door (as he has done before) the result would me be more clear cut - but what do I know?

Quite which is why I said racing incident. Rosberg messed up and was far too aggressive, Hamilton went for a move but the door shut...it took you 10 seconds to read that but in reality it all happened in less than a second...

...the bit I can't understand is people like lauda and some fans slamming Lewis for the accident when he was clearly crowded off the track, intentionally or not