Was it Nico or Lewis at fault in Spain?
Poll: Was it Nico or Lewis at fault in Spain?
Total Members Polled: 557
Discussion
As already said i'm fully with the racing incident result but ,,,
The trouble is the regulation Nico breached (with i fully admit mitigating circumstances) was bought in beacuse he did the exact same manouver (twice) in 2012 by crowding Lewis and Fred off the track so he has history.
Then again Lewis also has a history of putting nose in closing gaps, Canada 2011, and the above mentioned 2012, and a lots of times with Massa (usually resulting in a DNF).
It's these 2 points that give wiggle room for some to continue the argument, NOT the "but ths happend on a corner so it's ok on a straight", thats just people misunderstanding racing (or b
ks if you prefer) but you know what they say, opinions are like aholes, eveyone has them but you often wish they didn't 
you know like when the wife farts in bed or somone says something totaly stupid and shows they know fook all about the subject they are opinionating over 
Racing incident get over it people.
MrBarry123 said:
I do not however understand, when the speed differential was so large between the two cars, why Hamilton didn't go left?
However the inside is always preferable. If you take the inside line you can effectively dictate the line of both cars- i.e. Hamilton could’ve hung Rosberg out to dry on the exit of T4, compromising his traction out and probably leaving him behind one or more of the competitors. Going around the outside may well have worked but would’ve left Hamilton vulnerable should Rosberg have outbraked himself and ran wide (potential collision), or managed to keep a nose in the gap, in which case it would be Hamilton, not Rosberg, who had to leave a car’s width and Rosberg who could’ve ran Hamilton wide.
Ultimately Hamilton, as he approached the back of Rosberg’s slower car, faced a split decision- left or right- which required a very quick answer. At that moment there were a couple of car’s widths to the right of Rosberg and a dead certainty of leading the race out of the corner, presuming Rosberg wouldn’t run him out onto the grass on the straight- because he surely wouldn’t. Would he?
SeeFive said:
Unfortunately, the rules of F1 would appear to be different to bike racing. Following Nico running Alonso and Hamilton off on a straight after leaving the racing line in Bahrain, and Schumacher putting Barrichello too close to a wall, there was a rule introduced to give space to a passing driver.
I don't do 2 wheeled racing, but would you seriously expect a sudden chop onto the grass half way along a straight when you are passing a competitor with a massive speed advantage? For me that would be a fking good reason not to do bikes - that totally unpredictable behaviour when passing is the stuff that should be reserved for novices and back markers when you are the first to come up to them, not experienced F1 drivers in a top team.
If all drivers move wildly off the line to chop passing cars off the circuit when at risk of losing a place, nobody will be able to go for an overtake and we will be stuck with DRS and strategy.
It seems that some on here feel that a driver approaching a car at a significant speed advantage should back off and not attempt the pass just in case the guy ahead feels like pushing you onto the grass. That ain't racing.
ETA: Pic above, I would strongly suspect that Lewis did not keep his foot in at this point or even very shortly before with the chop occurring.
So, would you agree that he would have been increasing the overlap if he had kept his foot in and continued the momentum? At some point when you are getting "beside" your bike competitors, to get beside, you must get to here first. It wasn't as if Lewis did not have superior momentum and IMO would have been "beside" In a split second if he could have kept his foot in on tarmac. This is what made Rosberg's block so bad in my mind. Sure, if I put myself on the outside of a competitor mid bend, he will most likely keep on the line out, and I will run out of room if I stay there. Many on here are citing that as comparable, and to be fair, Nico has done that to Lewis at GP starts recently, and I can see no problem with that despite it costing Lewis many places. It is not the same as this instance. Put yourself in that position outside mid-bend, then you should expect the other driver to take the line. Be passing someone on a straight, expect to be pushed off the circuit? No way, that is banger racing.
I have no bike racing experience, but if someone unexpectedly jumped off the racing line and pushed me onto the grass on a straight as I was passing him on a bike, I would be carrying a very large blunt instrument to his pit garage should I be lucky enough to be able to walk afterwards.
In bike racing people move around more than they do in cars for reasons of more track space & yes they do sometimes chop across, but when I was watching it in real time I saw Nico was moving to the right before Lewis even got to the back of Nico's car when I then expected Hamilton to jink left & cruise past Nico.I don't do 2 wheeled racing, but would you seriously expect a sudden chop onto the grass half way along a straight when you are passing a competitor with a massive speed advantage? For me that would be a f
king good reason not to do bikes - that totally unpredictable behaviour when passing is the stuff that should be reserved for novices and back markers when you are the first to come up to them, not experienced F1 drivers in a top team.If all drivers move wildly off the line to chop passing cars off the circuit when at risk of losing a place, nobody will be able to go for an overtake and we will be stuck with DRS and strategy.
It seems that some on here feel that a driver approaching a car at a significant speed advantage should back off and not attempt the pass just in case the guy ahead feels like pushing you onto the grass. That ain't racing.
ETA: Pic above, I would strongly suspect that Lewis did not keep his foot in at this point or even very shortly before with the chop occurring.
So, would you agree that he would have been increasing the overlap if he had kept his foot in and continued the momentum? At some point when you are getting "beside" your bike competitors, to get beside, you must get to here first. It wasn't as if Lewis did not have superior momentum and IMO would have been "beside" In a split second if he could have kept his foot in on tarmac. This is what made Rosberg's block so bad in my mind. Sure, if I put myself on the outside of a competitor mid bend, he will most likely keep on the line out, and I will run out of room if I stay there. Many on here are citing that as comparable, and to be fair, Nico has done that to Lewis at GP starts recently, and I can see no problem with that despite it costing Lewis many places. It is not the same as this instance. Put yourself in that position outside mid-bend, then you should expect the other driver to take the line. Be passing someone on a straight, expect to be pushed off the circuit? No way, that is banger racing.
I have no bike racing experience, but if someone unexpectedly jumped off the racing line and pushed me onto the grass on a straight as I was passing him on a bike, I would be carrying a very large blunt instrument to his pit garage should I be lucky enough to be able to walk afterwards.
Edited by SeeFive on Wednesday 18th May 01:59
As I said at the start it was a 50/50 racing incident, personally IMO Hamilton needed to be further up the inside to command racing room & as I said if that was the case then Lewis was getting a bit of payback for Japan where he didn't give Nico racing room.
We can go back & forth all day on this both drivers have been responsibly for chopping opponents noses off/not giving racing room & depending on the person that's doing it then it's classed as robust (or putting manners on an opponent as brundle likes to call it) or reckless.
Neither are angels both will no doubt do it again.
I doubt if Jack Brabham, Graham Hill, Jim Clark, Dan Gurney or any F1 driver of that era would have moved over to block another car if they were down on power at any time during a race. Why? Because serious injury or death would have been a real possibility for both drivers from an impact and/or fire. Times have changed. The downside of much safer cars and circuits is the willingness of drivers in the modern era to indulge in brinkmanship resulting in collisions such as this.
Edited by MCR on Wednesday 18th May 18:47
MCR said:
I doubt if Jack Brabham, Graham Hill, Jim Clark, Dan Gurney or any F1 driver of that era would have moved over to block another car if they were down on power at any time during a race. Why? Because serious injury or death would have been a real possibility for both drivers from an impact and/or fire. Times have changed. The downside of much safer cars and circuits is the willingness of drivers in the modern era to indulge in brinkmanship resulting in collisions such as this.
Exactly the reason why karting is going down the pan. Edited by MCR on Wednesday 18th May 18:47
Too many plastic bumpers means kids barge others off the circuit. Bring back historic karting with no bumpers and bring back proper overtaking
MrBarry123 said:
johnfm said:
Nico was caught napping.
Amazing both he and the FIA refer to the car being in the wrong mode - not that 'the driver put the car in the wrong mode' as if it was magic.
This pic tells me It was no racing incident.
I'm not a massive fan of F1 however that is a fantastic angle to view the incident from and clearly shows Rosberg was at fault.Amazing both he and the FIA refer to the car being in the wrong mode - not that 'the driver put the car in the wrong mode' as if it was magic.
This pic tells me It was no racing incident.
I do not however understand, when the speed differential was so large between the two cars, why Hamilton didn't go left?
Ultimately it seems like a bad call by Hamilton, the result of which was exacerbated as a result of an illegal move committed by Rosberg.
M
Jesus Christ. Seven page and a fk ton of words to bottom out an incident that happened in less than a second.
Nico was slow, and not looking. Hamilton was fast, and over ambitious. Neither 100% to blame, but what happens when an immovable object meets an unstoppable force? Piston Heads explodes in a fit of pointless words is what.
k ton of words to bottom out an incident that happened in less than a second.Nico was slow, and not looking. Hamilton was fast, and over ambitious. Neither 100% to blame, but what happens when an immovable object meets an unstoppable force? Piston Heads explodes in a fit of pointless words is what.
racing incident
Hamilton gets rushed at turn 1 by Nico but I suspect decided to keep things in check and work out how to get back in front later. Get to turn 3 and suddenly he can see Nico's car is harvesting and in the wrong engine mode. Decides to take the golden opportunity sitting right in front of him and goes for it.
By the time Nico has corrected his engine setting mistake and sees Hamilton lunging up the side. Its too late. I think Nico was probably a little distracted by the mode change and he's not really on the racing line either.
Hamilton had some decent closing speed and by the time he sees he's getting squeezed out the only options are : go on the grass or brake.
I think it was probably reasonable to expect going on the grass wouldn't be sure to end in losing complete control, but it did and he became a passenger. A gamble that didn't pay.
Personally I think from a drivers personal point of view, both actually made the correct decision. Nico didn't let Hamilton scare him off and Hamilton let Nico know that he too won't be scared off. Both will now think twice when presented with the same situation because both know the other will go for it, do or die.
If Hamilton had of backed off, Nico would have won mentally. He would know then he can keep Lewis at bay with some aggressive squeezing. If Nico had have opened the door Lewis would then have known he can place his car where ever he likes around Nico, including in a position to cause a crash and Nico will bow down.
So I think both of them keeping their bottle, keeping their foot in was the right thing. Perhaps not for the team at this race, but in the longer term.
Hamilton gets rushed at turn 1 by Nico but I suspect decided to keep things in check and work out how to get back in front later. Get to turn 3 and suddenly he can see Nico's car is harvesting and in the wrong engine mode. Decides to take the golden opportunity sitting right in front of him and goes for it.
By the time Nico has corrected his engine setting mistake and sees Hamilton lunging up the side. Its too late. I think Nico was probably a little distracted by the mode change and he's not really on the racing line either.
Hamilton had some decent closing speed and by the time he sees he's getting squeezed out the only options are : go on the grass or brake.
I think it was probably reasonable to expect going on the grass wouldn't be sure to end in losing complete control, but it did and he became a passenger. A gamble that didn't pay.
Personally I think from a drivers personal point of view, both actually made the correct decision. Nico didn't let Hamilton scare him off and Hamilton let Nico know that he too won't be scared off. Both will now think twice when presented with the same situation because both know the other will go for it, do or die.
If Hamilton had of backed off, Nico would have won mentally. He would know then he can keep Lewis at bay with some aggressive squeezing. If Nico had have opened the door Lewis would then have known he can place his car where ever he likes around Nico, including in a position to cause a crash and Nico will bow down.
So I think both of them keeping their bottle, keeping their foot in was the right thing. Perhaps not for the team at this race, but in the longer term.
Anyone have any idea of what 8.3.2 of the Technical Regulations means in respect of Nico's action switching engine mode during the first lap?
The reg refers you to the Appendix for the detail, but I cannot find anything.
Basically the reg states that there must be a lockout in the electrical system that prevents switching modes, I think, during the first lap. A bit like DRS not being enabled until lap3. I thought it interesting that Nico pressed the overtake button to return to the default mode, so it looks like Mercedes have a cheat device to get arround the regulation.
Perhaps that was why there was such a big Pow Wow before they went to the Stewards.
The reg refers you to the Appendix for the detail, but I cannot find anything.
Basically the reg states that there must be a lockout in the electrical system that prevents switching modes, I think, during the first lap. A bit like DRS not being enabled until lap3. I thought it interesting that Nico pressed the overtake button to return to the default mode, so it looks like Mercedes have a cheat device to get arround the regulation.
Perhaps that was why there was such a big Pow Wow before they went to the Stewards.
rdjohn said:
Anyone have any idea of what 8.3.2 of the Technical Regulations means in respect of Nico's action switching engine mode during the first lap?
The reg refers you to the Appendix for the detail, but I cannot find anything.
Basically the reg states that there must be a lockout in the electrical system that prevents switching modes, I think, during the first lap. A bit like DRS not being enabled until lap3. I thought it interesting that Nico pressed the overtake button to return to the default mode, so it looks like Mercedes have a cheat device to get arround the regulation.
Perhaps that was why there was such a big Pow Wow before they went to the Stewards.
Here is a pic of Nico's steering wheel:The reg refers you to the Appendix for the detail, but I cannot find anything.
Basically the reg states that there must be a lockout in the electrical system that prevents switching modes, I think, during the first lap. A bit like DRS not being enabled until lap3. I thought it interesting that Nico pressed the overtake button to return to the default mode, so it looks like Mercedes have a cheat device to get arround the regulation.
Perhaps that was why there was such a big Pow Wow before they went to the Stewards.
You can see his notes stuck on it to help him with the correct formation lap/race start sequence on the right. The rotary switch on the bottom left is the strat/PU mode switch. Race start is 3, Safety Car/Warm up lap mode is 11/12. He forgot to switch it back to 3 at the start. However, AFAIK the launch map over-rides all of this, which is why he was able to do a normal start.
After a few corners, he realises he's in the wrong mode but him changing it back or the OT button doesn't get activated yet due to the FIA lockout, and W07's own safety net of not giving the driver instant boost mid corner or something. Nothing fishy about it.
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