Was it Nico or Lewis at fault in Spain?
Poll: Was it Nico or Lewis at fault in Spain?
Total Members Polled: 557
Discussion
gherkins said:
At first I thought 50:50, but now I'm thinking Rosberg was more at fault, although still a racing incident.
Rosberg came out of the corner in a car with a problem - down on power compared to Lewis' and at a significant speed disadvantage. He knew that along the straight Lewis would come past. So he made his move, but it was too late. Lewis was already significantly alongside. Lewis can not be to blame for going for a gap. Rosberg should have accepted his mistake in having the wrong setting. Perhaps he had been able to get past Lewis at the start because of the setting that resulted in energy recovery mode being engaged at turn 3?
Fair points all, but to my mind very much a racing incident. Hamilton saw that it was all unfolding very fast indeed, made a move which, if it had worked would have been the pass of the season, but if it didn't would inevitably lead to a double DNF. He was only significantly alongside for a very short period, and arguably the gap was never really thereRosberg came out of the corner in a car with a problem - down on power compared to Lewis' and at a significant speed disadvantage. He knew that along the straight Lewis would come past. So he made his move, but it was too late. Lewis was already significantly alongside. Lewis can not be to blame for going for a gap. Rosberg should have accepted his mistake in having the wrong setting. Perhaps he had been able to get past Lewis at the start because of the setting that resulted in energy recovery mode being engaged at turn 3?
Rosberg was an idiot to have to be fiddling with his steering wheel (but we all make mistakes) and was probably just within his rights to move as he did. Just. At the same time he also knew that if Hamilton couldn't or wouldn't pull out of the situation it would be a double DNF.
Both of them made a very high-consequence choice, and they probably both hoped the other would blink. I'd apportion the blame probably 75:25 towards Rosberg, but neither of them were totally at fault, neither of them totally guiltless.
I suspect this will lead to Rosberg leaving the team at the end of the season; Hamilton is the better bet for the team (double WDC with them, far more media coverage), and is contracted to 2018; Rosberg's contract is up at the end of 2016. Rosberg to Ferrari, perhaps?
Just because it's a racing incident doesn't mean that one driver isn't at fault. These things aren't mutually exclusive.
To me, there was a lot of the race to run as well as a lot of the season to run however for team mates to have a coming together in such a way.
I put more of the blame on Rosberg due to the fact that he should have left his team mate at least a car width to play with.
To me, there was a lot of the race to run as well as a lot of the season to run however for team mates to have a coming together in such a way.
I put more of the blame on Rosberg due to the fact that he should have left his team mate at least a car width to play with.
PhillipM said:
It would have been the pass of the season, on a straight, on the normal inside line for overtaking?
Low standards!
That close? Opinions vary, but I'd say if he'd got past with just a fag paper's width between them and managed to scrub the speed off before the corner and managed to hold the the position through the next series of corners, then yep, pass of the season.Low standards!
I think Nico did what would have been the right thing, he just did it late because he was fixing the first mistake. And as such made another mistake, albeit with an outcome that conveniently improves his situation to the detriment of Lewis - I get the impression he'd be quite happy with a few more of them at this point.
Rosberg is going to be world champ as long as Hamiltown keeps having issues and retirements, racing together he stands no chance, he seems to have known it when he closed the door on lewis drove Lewis off the track at the weekend.
No matter how much of a tool the tattoos, earrings, dressing like a #blessed t
t and thinking he's a rapper makes Hamilton appear (if i were his age I'd think he was dope, cool and all that) he's a multiple world champion and a real proven talent, the other is a daddies boy with slittle bit of talent and a team desperate for the trifecta of a full german championship winner.
No matter how much of a tool the tattoos, earrings, dressing like a #blessed t
t and thinking he's a rapper makes Hamilton appear (if i were his age I'd think he was dope, cool and all that) he's a multiple world champion and a real proven talent, the other is a daddies boy with slittle bit of talent and a team desperate for the trifecta of a full german championship winner.I can't help but thinking that had this incident happened at the club level I race at it would have been Rosberg that was hauled in front of the steward and given a massive bking for forcing another car off track. It may have been opportunistic by Hamilton, but I think it was dangerous by Rosberg.
king for forcing another car off track. It may have been opportunistic by Hamilton, but I think it was dangerous by Rosberg.RoadRunner220 said:
I can't help but thinking that had this incident happened at the club level I race at it would have been Rosberg that was hauled in front of the steward and given a massive bking for forcing another car off track. It may have been opportunistic by Hamilton, but I think it was dangerous by Rosberg.
I've been in this situation. The stewards reached the same conclusion.king for forcing another car off track. It may have been opportunistic by Hamilton, but I think it was dangerous by Rosberg.longblackcoat said:
That close? Opinions vary, but I'd say if he'd got past with just a fag paper's width between them and managed to scrub the speed off before the corner and managed to hold the the position through the next series of corners, then yep, pass of the season.
With that closing speed he'd probably have been past before the corner.I can't believe there are people who are interested enough in racing to be posting in the Formula 1 forum on PH, but not interested enough to know that there is a gaping chasm between taking the racing line at corner exit and crossing from one side of the track right up to the track limit on the other side of the track on a straight.
One of them gives your attacker some time to make a decision between crashing into you, running off the track or backing out of the move. The other results either in you crashing directly into your attacker, or, if they have supreme reactions, puts them off the track, where they're a passenger.
One of them gives your attacker some time to make a decision between crashing into you, running off the track or backing out of the move. The other results either in you crashing directly into your attacker, or, if they have supreme reactions, puts them off the track, where they're a passenger.
suffolk009 said:
LandR said:
Jackie Stewart says it was Hamiltons fault and should be disciplined by the team.
Sir Jackie is talking crap. Again.Jackie Stewart said:
‘It was all emotion. First lap. Desperation. That’s not the way to win, not consistently. Hamilton is to blame. Rosberg is allowed to protect himself. You don’t go for it on the first lap.
‘It’s just completely wrong. And then to throw the steering wheel out of the car. Probably £30,000-£40,000 of steering wheel.
‘It’s difficult for them to leave Lewis out for a race when they need to win the world championship. But there does need to be discipline.
‘I would certainly have penalised the driver who made that mistake on the first lap. It would have to be financial. But Lewis is making such a lot of money that it might not be a big penalty to him.
‘It’s just completely wrong. And then to throw the steering wheel out of the car. Probably £30,000-£40,000 of steering wheel.
‘It’s difficult for them to leave Lewis out for a race when they need to win the world championship. But there does need to be discipline.
‘I would certainly have penalised the driver who made that mistake on the first lap. It would have to be financial. But Lewis is making such a lot of money that it might not be a big penalty to him.
It wasn't all emotion from Lewis, but merely a case that he could tell Rosberg's car had de-rated because the red harvesting light was flashing.
It was a case of 'here is an opportunity to pass someone who is clearly going slower and which side should I go to'? Isn't that in the job description for an F1 driver?
It is Jackie Stewart and Lauda who have reacted emotionally here by taking sides before they saw the data.
Toto Wolf played this one immaculately for me and saw the realities of the situation.
Clevers said:
It is Jackie Stewart and Lauda who have reacted emotionally here by taking sides before they saw the data.
Toto Wolf played this one immaculately for me and saw the realities of the situation.
Well hushed up by the team publicly or they would have had at least one car starting at least 11th at Monaco after a 10 place grid penalty. Toto Wolf played this one immaculately for me and saw the realities of the situation.
The team should express no verdict before going to the stewards - as they did, but brief the drivers on their use of the rule book for their defence (e.g., under 27.7 I was within my right to etc...) and hope for the racing incident decision. If they say either driver was at fault before the stewards meeting, then someone would probably be down the grid at Monaco after qually. Fine if it someone else's driver, but both were Merc's
Smart move. I just wonder who has been torn a new one quietly by the team since.
ZX10R NIN said:
It was a 50/50 incident if anyone was going take more of the blame it would have to go Lewis's way he's the attacker with a better view.
Apart from he can't see inside his team mate's confused mind. Sure he could see it. But there was nothing he could do about it as Nico moved so late and so abruptly. It was like seeing a car coming at you head on in a single track road and knowing that he cannot stop given his speed. You can stop, but he is still gonna slam into you.
And you know it'll go 50/50 with the insurers as he will say that you had not stopped either.
SeeFive said:
Apart from he can't see inside his team mate's confused mind.
Sure he could see it. But there was nothing he could do about it as Nico moved so late and so abruptly. It was like seeing a car coming at you head on in a single track road and knowing that he cannot stop given his speed. You can stop, but he is still gonna slam into you.
And you know it'll go 50/50 with the insurers as he will say that you had not stopped either.
He wasn't right up there, Nico shut the door he was always going to. When you look at Japan when Nico was properly beside Lewis & he ran Nico off the road giving him no racing room we all called it good racing. Lewis only got up to Nico's rear wheel at best which means you're hoping the guy in front has seen you.Sure he could see it. But there was nothing he could do about it as Nico moved so late and so abruptly. It was like seeing a car coming at you head on in a single track road and knowing that he cannot stop given his speed. You can stop, but he is still gonna slam into you.
And you know it'll go 50/50 with the insurers as he will say that you had not stopped either.
Nico was always going to the right, when you race a motorbike you make sure you get beside your opponent because if you just stick your front wheel near the guy in fronts rear wheel then you won't be left a gap & more than likely you'll end up on the floor.
Superbad said:
Given the speed of the cars and the sudden move how could Rosberg have known that Lewis had enough of his car side by side to be given room? If in doubt he had to close the door, Hamilton would have done the same.
The foot of Hamilton was already in the door though thus it would never have closed.TX.
ZX10R NIN said:
He wasn't right up there, Nico shut the door he was always going to. When you look at Japan when Nico was properly beside Lewis & he ran Nico off the road giving him no racing room we all called it good racing. Lewis only got up to Nico's rear wheel at best which means you're hoping the guy in front has seen you.
Nico was always going to the right, when you race a motorbike you make sure you get beside your opponent because if you just stick your front wheel near the guy in fronts rear wheel then you won't be left a gap & more than likely you'll end up on the floor.
Unfortunately, the rules of F1 would appear to be different to bike racing. Following Nico running Alonso and Hamilton off on a straight after leaving the racing line in Bahrain, and Schumacher putting Barrichello too close to a wall, there was a rule introduced to give space to a passing driver.Nico was always going to the right, when you race a motorbike you make sure you get beside your opponent because if you just stick your front wheel near the guy in fronts rear wheel then you won't be left a gap & more than likely you'll end up on the floor.
I don't do 2 wheeled racing, but would you seriously expect a sudden chop onto the grass half way along a straight when you are passing a competitor with a massive speed advantage? For me that would be a f
king good reason not to do bikes - that totally unpredictable behaviour when passing is the stuff that should be reserved for novices and back markers when you are the first to come up to them, not experienced F1 drivers in a top team.If all drivers move wildly off the line to chop passing cars off the circuit when at risk of losing a place, nobody will be able to go for an overtake and we will be stuck with DRS and strategy.
It seems that some on here feel that a driver approaching a car at a significant speed advantage should back off and not attempt the pass just in case the guy ahead feels like pushing you onto the grass. That ain't racing.
ETA: Pic above, I would strongly suspect that Lewis did not keep his foot in at this point or even very shortly before with the chop occurring.
So, would you agree that he would have been increasing the overlap if he had kept his foot in and continued the momentum? At some point when you are getting "beside" your bike competitors, to get beside, you must get to here first. It wasn't as if Lewis did not have superior momentum and IMO would have been "beside" In a split second if he could have kept his foot in on tarmac. This is what made Rosberg's block so bad in my mind. Sure, if I put myself on the outside of a competitor mid bend, he will most likely keep on the line out, and I will run out of room if I stay there. Many on here are citing that as comparable, and to be fair, Nico has done that to Lewis at GP starts recently, and I can see no problem with that despite it costing Lewis many places. It is not the same as this instance. Put yourself in that position outside mid-bend, then you should expect the other driver to take the line. Be passing someone on a straight, expect to be pushed off the circuit? No way, that is banger racing.
I have no bike racing experience, but if someone unexpectedly jumped off the racing line and pushed me onto the grass on a straight as I was passing him on a bike, I would be carrying a very large blunt instrument to his pit garage should I be lucky enough to be able to walk afterwards.
Edited by SeeFive on Wednesday 18th May 01:59
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