The Official 2016 Monaco Grand Prix Thread **Spoilers**
Discussion
NJK44 said:
Otispunkmeyer said:
Just watching now
What happened to Nico? Usually goes well here, has the best car and yet came 6th and nearly got lapped by his team mate. Problem? car not set for the wet?
7th! What happened to Nico? Usually goes well here, has the best car and yet came 6th and nearly got lapped by his team mate. Problem? car not set for the wet?
Vocal Minority said:
I don't think anyone is arguing the Hamilton did a decent job and kept himself in the hunt through hard work and good approach. However, as you said preparation meets opportunity.
It was opportunistic. No shame in that at all. He did a neat job given the circumstances. Above average as race wins go.
I think people are just quibbling your statement that it would be treated as legendary had Senna done it. It wasn't even Hamilton's best. You could argue it wasn't even in his top 5.
I agree with Mr Smith's comments and these have also been echoed by Damon Hill.It was opportunistic. No shame in that at all. He did a neat job given the circumstances. Above average as race wins go.
I think people are just quibbling your statement that it would be treated as legendary had Senna done it. It wasn't even Hamilton's best. You could argue it wasn't even in his top 5.
I think it is also possible to measure how good that drive was from Lewis by direct comparison to his team mate who was in identical machinery and never once looked like getting anywhere close to having a chance to win. The aggregate swing between their respective starting and finishing positions was 7 places which is a lot for Monaco.
I watched the Mansell v Senna battle and also the Senna victory at Donnington. Hamilton's performance recalled of a driver with an innate feel and natural ability to adapt to changing conditions and go fast immediately without needing to 'bed in' and acclimatise like others do. Contrast that with the number of drivers who crashed or struggled in the wet conditions including previous world champions.
Vocal Minority said:
Fair enough. I'm quite surprised that he is de-valuing things like Silverstone 2008!
It was a decent win, but as I said, opportunistic rather than legendary.
Just for clarity, all Hamilton said was that it was one of his better victories. He didn't attempt to rank it.It was a decent win, but as I said, opportunistic rather than legendary.
HustleRussell said:
Vocal Minority said:
Above average as race wins go.
I should imagine a race win from the second row in changeable conditions ranging from extreme wet to fully dry, the first win of the season after a seven month winning drought, at your favourite circuit of Monaco, a circuit at which your hero and idol was famously adept, against the odds and under considerable pressure from convincing competition, is far from an average race win experience. But that's just me, I'vd never won a Grand Prix at Monaco personally...
Clevers said:
I think it is also possible to measure how good that drive was from Lewis by direct comparison to his team mate who was in identical machinery and never once looked like getting anywhere close to having a chance to win. The aggregate swing between their respective starting and finishing positions was 7 places which is a lot for Monaco.
And how many overtakes were involved in all of that? One right at the end on Nico? Nico got mugged in the pits and stuck behind an Alonso Roadblock for the rest of the race, as did almost everyone else. Prior to that Hamilton was stuck behind Nico for seven laps until he was given the position, then Ricciardo got stuck behind him, produced a couple of very fast laps and then got mugged at the pitstops himself before getting stuck behind Hamilton for the rest of the race.
I can understand why Lewis thinks it was a great race in a list of favourites- he'll have been wired the whole time and things played out in his favour, plus he really wanted a win and he was due some good karma from last year.
But a "great drive" at Monaco seems to be about either catching the guy in front and then hoping your team produce a better pit stop, or else making your car as wide as possible and hoping your team produce a better pit stop. I'm not sure an all-time-great drive is even possible at Monaco.
Of those who finished the race, who completed the most overtakes? I genuinely don't know. Perez? Hulkenburg?
Vaud said:
Monaco is always an oddity.
I kind of want them to change it and maybe make some changes coming out of the tunnel to allow a DRS / longer straight. I sort of hate myself for saying that but the overtaking has always been a bit do or die.
Thats what makes it special in my opinion, I think we can tolerate it once a year I kind of want them to change it and maybe make some changes coming out of the tunnel to allow a DRS / longer straight. I sort of hate myself for saying that but the overtaking has always been a bit do or die.
Its the high speed chicane that does it for me...anyone know if there is a grandstand with this view? or would it need to be overhanging the sea?
That "chicane" used to be the first turn around the swimming pool. Ironically, it now looks awfully like what the "old" chicane after the tunnel used to look like until they moved the walls back to gave the massive run off that exists now.
Old chicane -
Current version of same chicane -
Old chicane -
Current version of same chicane -
Vaud said:
TheExcession said:
KernowSid said:
Whatever credibility Hamilton had was totally lost in that one exchange with Bieber!
That really was painful.Boring_Chris said:
HustleRussell said:
Vocal Minority said:
Above average as race wins go.
I should imagine a race win from the second row in changeable conditions ranging from extreme wet to fully dry, the first win of the season after a seven month winning drought, at your favourite circuit of Monaco, a circuit at which your hero and idol was famously adept, against the odds and under considerable pressure from convincing competition, is far from an average race win experience. But that's just me, I'vd never won a Grand Prix at Monaco personally...
- sigh*
On the basis an 'average' win these days is get to 10-15 seconds in front and hold the field at arms length - it was better than that. It was 'above' this. A decent performance, and he was in a position to take advantage of a slice of luck, and held is own, knowing all he needed to do was stay calm and the in the zone (easier said than done granted).
I was directly responding to the statement that I think Chris (apologies if it was someone else) said that if Senna did it we'd talk about it for decades. Well no, we wouldn't, because it wasn't THAT memorable from an armchair point of view - it was a decent opportunistic win definitiely. But legendary? Give over.
patmahe said:
Vaud said:
Monaco is always an oddity.
I kind of want them to change it and maybe make some changes coming out of the tunnel to allow a DRS / longer straight. I sort of hate myself for saying that but the overtaking has always been a bit do or die.
Thats what makes it special in my opinion, I think we can tolerate it once a year I kind of want them to change it and maybe make some changes coming out of the tunnel to allow a DRS / longer straight. I sort of hate myself for saying that but the overtaking has always been a bit do or die.
Its the high speed chicane that does it for me...anyone know if there is a grandstand with this view? or would it need to be overhanging the sea?
Europa1 said:
As a couple of other posters have said, what on earth was Justin Bieber doing stood by himself next to the podium? That really jarred.
And whilst on the whole I'm a Hamilton fan, I thought him sharing the winner's champagne with a pop brat before sharing it with his team was poor behaviour.
It looked to me as if JB was Hami's guest at the race so not entirely inappropriate.And whilst on the whole I'm a Hamilton fan, I thought him sharing the winner's champagne with a pop brat before sharing it with his team was poor behaviour.
glazbagun said:
Of those who finished the race, who completed the most overtakes? I genuinely don't know. Perez? Hulkenburg?
Might be wrong, but I *think* Hulkenberg was the only one who actually completed a pass not in the pit/ related to a crash (that finished the race)?HustleRussell said:
Vocal Minority said:
Above average as race wins go.
I should imagine a race win from the second row in changeable conditions ranging from extreme wet to fully dry, the first win of the season after a seven month winning drought, at your favourite circuit of Monaco, a circuit at which your hero and idol was famously adept, against the odds and under considerable pressure from convincing competition, is far from an average race win experience. But that's just me, I'vd never won a Grand Prix at Monaco personally...
Vocal Minority said:
Are fans not allowed a 'veiw from the armchair' any more - I suppose if it contradicts the sainted Lewis then no. Lewis is entitled to feel about the win as he wishes obviously - At what point have I said he can't - I have merely expressed surprise that he would rate it above other wins.
On the basis an 'average' win these days is get to 10-15 seconds in front and hold the field at arms length - it was better than that. It was 'above' this. A decent performance, and he was in a position to take advantage of a slice of luck, and held is own, knowing all he needed to do was stay calm and the in the zone (easier said than done granted).
I was directly responding to the statement that I think Chris (apologies if it was someone else) said that if Senna did it we'd talk about it for decades. Well no, we wouldn't, because it wasn't THAT memorable from an armchair point of view - it was a decent opportunistic win definitiely. But legendary? Give over.
It seems there is no place for neutrals in here. You either have to think he's the second coming or devil incarnate.On the basis an 'average' win these days is get to 10-15 seconds in front and hold the field at arms length - it was better than that. It was 'above' this. A decent performance, and he was in a position to take advantage of a slice of luck, and held is own, knowing all he needed to do was stay calm and the in the zone (easier said than done granted).
I was directly responding to the statement that I think Chris (apologies if it was someone else) said that if Senna did it we'd talk about it for decades. Well no, we wouldn't, because it wasn't THAT memorable from an armchair point of view - it was a decent opportunistic win definitiely. But legendary? Give over.
FWIW, I confess I'm a lowly armchair fan. I'd like to think that I'm objective enough to recognise and give credit when a driver performs just that other side of human ability. However, I also see no reason to elevate driver performances unnecessarily, even if it were my personal favourites.
I'm with Vocal Minority here. I see no reason to elevate Hamilton's performance in the race more than necessary. If anything, Wehrlein's performance on an identical strategy and a far worser car is more impressive. If this was any other circuit where overtakes are possible, and Hamilton had managed to defend against a faster car, then I'd say all the plaudits would have been justified.
Hamilton on a faster dry tyre than Ricciardo in a drying track manages to keep a slightly faster car (on the day) behind with some good car positioning where there is only one line on a good day! Great. I expect nothing less from a 3-time WDC. There are plenty of other drivers on that track who would have done nothing less especially as the pace delta for overtakes to be possible was said to be 4 seconds per lap.
Again, as a neutral if you ask me, the one bit of performance from the whole weekend from him that stood out for me was during Q3. His first two sectors on that final run were spine tingling. I wished he'd kept it together on S3 as he really did deserve pole. But Ricciardo was supreme in the final sector. If I were a Hamilton fan, I'd have a video of that run saved for future viewing.
Flooble said:
Very interesting. They'd run out of new sets presumably, having burned an extra set in qualifying (so Hamilton's Q3 fuel problem ended up helping him out?)
Yes, it does appear that way. Also, I'm sure Hamilton will be very Edited by Dr Z on Tuesday 31st May 14:07
HustleRussell said:
How you two have deduced that I think Hamilton’s Monaco was a 'legendary drive', and the man himself the 'second coming', I’ll never know. Certainly I have never said either of those things or anything which could be construed as similar.
Sorry, it was not directed at you in particular. It was more a response to comments from a few posters suggesting it was a great drive. I'd say it was a good drive. But a great one?It WAS a great drive. No doubt about it. Driving on wet tyres on a dry track? Almost impossible. Lewis made that call, and it paid off. This victory also came at the exact right time. With such a poor performance from Nico, the mind games will set in. I feel the momentum swinging.
And you don't have to like Lewis to know how good he is around Canada, with possibly the shortest run into turn 1 on the calendar?
And you don't have to like Lewis to know how good he is around Canada, with possibly the shortest run into turn 1 on the calendar?
I thought it was a great drive by LH. Having to do a major job of looking after tyres twice, while having to go as fast as possible to beat a quick rival, having said rival over him like a rash, even when he (LH) went on to slicks which he described as 'like on ice', while blowing a team mate away and all but lapping him, and all while skimming barriers at one of the most challenging of tracks.
The conditions and circumstances were for sorting men from boys and LH and DR were in a different league for me. Top race.
The conditions and circumstances were for sorting men from boys and LH and DR were in a different league for me. Top race.
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