should the radio ban stay?

should the radio ban stay?

Poll: should the radio ban stay?

Total Members Polled: 251

No it is a spaceship : 58%
YES it is a racecar: 42%
Author
Discussion

TypeRTim

724 posts

93 months

Wednesday 27th July 2016
quotequote all
I've been pondering this for a while, and by this I mean the over-regulation of F1 as a whole, and I can see 2 alternatives.

1.) Reduce the amount of driver adjustable systems. Engine modes, Regen Modes, Deployment Maps, fuel maps, Diff settings etc. should all go.

But saying that, all of this complexity isn't exactly new. Look at the Mclaren wheel from 10 years ago...

8 mode dials for various parameters of the car all available for adjustment.

Compared to last year's wheel

There is 1 more rotary or multi-position dial/switch for the driver. I don't know how much is buried in the LCD screen menus however.

Not a huge amount of difference to be honest.

But reducing the available settings to the absolute minimum and having emergency overrides via menus in the LCD as a last resort could work. Drivers dont want to be going through menus at 200mph after all! And when it does all go a bit pete tong, the pit can tell the driver what option to change in the menu. Time loss would be more as the driver would have to deal with flicking through menus rather than changing a position on a switch,

2.) keep the wheel complexity the same. I dont really care about the complexity of the wheel to be honest as its not exactly a new phenomenon. However, what i vehemently disagree with is messages from the pit saying "fuel usage high, switch to mode x on dial y, lift and coast more in to turn z". The teams should be allowed to inform the drivers of problems such as "Front brakes running hot", but in that instance it is up to the driver to figure out the solution.
I appreciate that this is very simplistic though. The power units are incredibly complicated things now and just saying "Rear brakes hot" or like in Jenson's case from the weekend "brake pedal going to the floor" there could be any one of about 15 solutions.

But where do you draw the line between troubleshooting and coaching? Its a difficult one...

Oddball RS

1,757 posts

217 months

Wednesday 27th July 2016
quotequote all
Keep the ban, use pit boards, safety only radio wise, they need to understand what they are driving as well as driving it.

rtz62

3,340 posts

154 months

Wednesday 27th July 2016
quotequote all
For what it's worth, my first memories of Formula One (not really called F1 back then) was the late 1960's, when I remeber Hill, Clark and Rindt etc.
Back then, and for many years, there was only pit boards. That, and a lack of driver aids, made the racing down to the skill of the driver and the car builders, rather than tweakable diffs, engine maps etc.
Aerodynamics were fixed, and instead of DRS, teams had to get their driver into the pits to adjust the angle of attack of the front and rear wings.
Looking back, all the cars looked different, as each team sought different paths to try to gain an advantage.
Drivers looked different too, quite a number would be called chunky these days, and they didn't have to speak 'corporate bks' at every pre and post race interview, and this too added to the spectacle
I subscribe to the views of a few on here, that if F1 really must have all these gizmos, they should be allowed to be set up prior to, and including, qualifying, but that's it; after that it's down to the driver, for better or for worse.
The thing that grates with me is when you hear drivers moaning about danger-this, technical problem-that; as my old police sergeant told me once when I deigned to moan about my lot in life, "If you don't like it son, I've got Tescos number, they're recruiting, so if you fancy stacking shelves at £5/hr, I'll happily oblige you and ring them".
Stopped me moaning immediately.

3795mpower

484 posts

129 months

Wednesday 27th July 2016
quotequote all
Open radio communication for all.
Restricting it implies that F1 is not a team sport.

Imagine how many more close battles we would have seen this year alone without
A ban on information for the driver..

It's much more fun with more conversation, who remembers....
"Michael...use magic paddle !!!" ?



Edited by 3795mpower on Wednesday 27th July 15:47

Tomy90

163 posts

109 months

Wednesday 27th July 2016
quotequote all
From my understanding the two reasons this rule was put in place was the following:

1 - to stop drivers being told how to race (which I agree with)

2 - to try and force the teams / engine manufacturers to simplify the cars and power units (which I can't see happening)

In the perfect world I would make it that the only communications you are not allowed is giving advice on how to drive the car faster (like saying you are losing time in sector 1 or go into this gear for this corner, everything else is fair game as these cars are very complicated and I do not agree with simplifying these cars considering more and more vehicles are hybrids sadly.

Either that or allow the team to fix items on the car wirelessly considering the cars already send and receive data as it is (but could risk cheating happening if you allowed that and would make it easier for teams to do team orders even against the drivers will).

BlimeyCharlie

901 posts

141 months

Wednesday 27th July 2016
quotequote all


I use the steering wheel in my car to adjust the direction I intend to drive in, and occasionally press the bit in the centre to sound the horn.

Also have a radio ban in my dwelling, as well as in the car, because it is sh*te.

Seriously though, how is pit-to-car radio of any use to spectators at the circuit, the people who have spent the serious money?




Jasandjules

69,825 posts

228 months

Wednesday 27th July 2016
quotequote all
I rather miss the radio messages. By all means ban "how to drive" messages i.e. brake later into turn 2 (and in some driver's case, remember to turn full stop), but anything else goes IMHO...

EnglishTony

2,552 posts

98 months

Wednesday 27th July 2016
quotequote all
As has been pointed out the cars are not going to get less complex / adjustable so to stop drivers messing with the settings at 200 mph just tell them which settings to use and be done with it.

'cos it's only a question of time before the messages flash up on that screen on the steering wheel anyway.

Assuming that they haven't already thought of that.

KaraK

13,177 posts

208 months

Thursday 28th July 2016
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ELUSIVEJIM said:
It would be better if F1 banned all the systems and only gave the driver two buttons on the steering wheel.

The radio and drinks button.

Get back to a driver making the difference in the car.
F1 now consists of two drivers having such a performance advantage the rest should not even bother turning up.

How anyone could actually go and pay a fortune to watch this business is beyond my reasoning.
So you'd like the driver to make more of a difference in the car by actually reducing the amount of things they can make a difference on?

RacerMike

4,192 posts

210 months

Thursday 28th July 2016
quotequote all
Thing is....driver coaching is part of modern motorsport. Everyone, no matter how good they are, benefits from coaching, and it's the same across all sports. Tennis coaches are allowed to talk to the players during the match, so why is it wrong if the team can coach the driver during the race?

Ultimately, the drivers are still being coached throughout the weekend. Data analysis is king, and to be competitive, you absolutely have to spend as much time as possible going over and over your data with an engineer or driver coach. This is 100% part of motorsport, and honestly doesn't detract from the spectacle. A terrible driver is not somehow going to be brought up to the same level as someone who is a world champion just through coaching. They'll get closer perhaps, but there's always a huge element of talent involved in actually understanding the information given by the team or engineer. A good driver will be able to take this on board. It's pretty clear that the ban is negatively affecting the spectacle of F1, and how can we honestly say that Button being given a drive through penalty for discussing a safety issue with his car benefited the sport/racing spectacle. Ignoring the engine blow up, we could have instead seen a decent fight from him!

Unfortunately, there's a massive miss match between what the public believe driver coaching is, and what it actually is. How many members of the public actually manage to drive anywhere near a competitive lap time on a trackday, even with an experienced diver coach next to them? If it's no 0% it's <1%!

Edited by RacerMike on Thursday 28th July 12:45

VolvoT5

4,155 posts

173 months

Thursday 28th July 2016
quotequote all
Seems they are basically ditching the radio ban as it stands, which is excellent news IMO.


Jasandjules

69,825 posts

228 months

Thursday 28th July 2016
quotequote all
Good, I look forward to entertaining messages at the weekend then!

hairyben

8,516 posts

182 months

Thursday 28th July 2016
quotequote all
RacerMike said:
Thing is....driver coaching is part of modern motorsport. Everyone, no matter how good they are, benefits from coaching, and it's the same across all sports. Tennis coaches are allowed to talk to the players during the match, so why is it wrong if the team can coach the driver during
Coaching as part of training is fine but drivers being talked around a live race isnt... an analogy to other sports might be if a coach were constantly shouting instructions, types of puch etc to a boxer that it detracts from the fighters own skill... or if a football team all had earpieces coordinating them...

Anyway moot point, the silly old farts in the FIA are too senile to understand the difference so they've given the idea up which is probably for the best

VolvoT5

4,155 posts

173 months

Thursday 28th July 2016
quotequote all
I would prefer not to see driver coaching........ but if the choice is between having a total radio ban and having driver coaching I will take the driver coaching. After all the team can tell one driver that their team mate is using a different gear or taking a higher entry speed but that doesn't necessarily help the slower driver if they don't have the talent to copy it.


London424

12,826 posts

174 months

Thursday 28th July 2016
quotequote all
Nico will be pleased, coaching is now allowed.

MissChief

7,095 posts

167 months

Thursday 28th July 2016
quotequote all
London424 said:
Nico will be pleased, coaching is now allowed.
Lewis is faster than you. Please confirm you understand.

EnglishTony

2,552 posts

98 months

Thursday 28th July 2016
quotequote all
You reckon we can ask the FIA to ban chat on the post race in lap too? There's just so much whooping a bloke can take and I had my fill about 3 micro seconds into the very first one.

RacerMike

4,192 posts

210 months

Thursday 28th July 2016
quotequote all
hairyben said:
Coaching as part of training is fine but drivers being talked around a live race isnt... an analogy to other sports might be if a coach were constantly shouting instructions, types of puch etc to a boxer that it detracts from the fighters own skill... or if a football team all had earpieces coordinating them...

Anyway moot point, the silly old farts in the FIA are too senile to understand the difference so they've given the idea up which is probably for the best
Well.....they kind of do. Tennis players get shouted advice from the sidelines between shots and boxers get a talking to between rounds. That's no different in my opinion to a team talking strategy to a driver between the points at which he goes for an overtake or pushes for 5 laps to try and get ahead in the pit stops....

But agreed on the senile old men behind the FIA...

Evangelion

7,639 posts

177 months

Friday 29th July 2016
quotequote all
I'd like to see the definition of "the start of the formation lap" !

Does that mean the team can keep talking to the driver until he moves away?

rscott

14,690 posts

190 months

Friday 29th July 2016
quotequote all
Driver coaching allowed, but teams must now provide unedited radio feeds to the commercial rights holder - presumably they're hoping the media coverage will embarrass certain drivers who are told exactly when to change gear, position the car, breathe, etc..