should the radio ban stay?

[Eric Mc]

They are becoming systems managers.

[alangla]

Adrian W said:

alangla said:

I'm sure years ago the cars used to have to pit & a laptop would be plugged into a socket in the cockpit to allow electronic faults to be resolved.

How about... Limited adjustment while on the move (e.g. brake bias, energy recovery level, one or two other things) and allowing the team to adjust settings wirelessly via a loop antenna embedded in the pit box area. The car could receive updates from the team while it was stationary in the pits in much the same way that front wing angles are adjusted by mechanics while stopped, but only basic stuff could changed while on the move. This should still allow the teams to tweak the car's setup for each stint, but would allow the drivers to concentrate on driving, rather than faffing about with all those controls on the wheel.

Isn't one of the current fundamental rules of motor racing that you can take data from the car in a race but cannot send data to the car? I thought this is to effectively stop the engineers remotely controlling the car.

I don't think this idea would really allow them to remote control it. If transmission was limited to, say, within 6 feet of the stop marks in the pit box then it's just an electronic version of a mechanic's adjustment. This would, of course, have to be limited to just adjusting settings that are already loaded on the car, not silly stuff like uploading full engine maps.

[marshalla]

alangla said:

Adrian W said:

alangla said:

I'm sure years ago the cars used to have to pit & a laptop would be plugged into a socket in the cockpit to allow electronic faults to be resolved.

How about... Limited adjustment while on the move (e.g. brake bias, energy recovery level, one or two other things) and allowing the team to adjust settings wirelessly via a loop antenna embedded in the pit box area. The car could receive updates from the team while it was stationary in the pits in much the same way that front wing angles are adjusted by mechanics while stopped, but only basic stuff could changed while on the move. This should still allow the teams to tweak the car's setup for each stint, but would allow the drivers to concentrate on driving, rather than faffing about with all those controls on the wheel.

Isn't one of the current fundamental rules of motor racing that you can take data from the car in a race but cannot send data to the car? I thought this is to effectively stop the engineers remotely controlling the car.

I don't think this idea would really allow them to remote control it. If transmission was limited to, say, within 6 feet of the stop marks in the pit box then it's just an electronic version of a mechanic's adjustment. This would, of course, have to be limited to just adjusting settings that are already loaded on the car, not silly stuff like uploading full engine maps.

Someone would, undoubtedly, find a loophole that allowed them to put relays at various points around the track (hairpins would probably be good locations), or devise a high speed data burst mechanism which would allow settings to be changed by driving through the pit lane without stopping - or even by just getting close to the perches.

Better to require it to be a cable, or a control panel on the outside of the car, to prevent temptation.

[Crafty_]

The rule is quite simple - the car must not accept any inbound information via telemetry systems.

Either they make the technology easier to manage or it gets automated imho.

[swisstoni]

rsbmw said:

Mr_Thyroid said:

Or certain drivers should knuckle down, concentrate, put down the celebrity bimbo and read the manual.

There have been many comments on here in the past about how manual gearboxes were great because the caused the drivers to make little slip ups. If one driver doesn't know all the setting then great, it increases the unpredictability of the racing. Of course in the last race it kind of prevented Hamilton from racing Perez, which was disappointing, but if it was the other way round it would have been great to see Perez catching and passing Hamilton for a podium spot - that is the kind of excitement we want to see.

It's just another skill that some drivers have and some don't - this is a non-issue.

For what we know, Hamilton may have understood his wheel and all of his settings perfectly. The engineers programmed something incorrectly which meant he then didn't know what was causing a problem, and they couldn't tell him what they had done wrong. Not a lot he could do with that situation except as he said himself on the radio started changing things, which he was told not to do. All the comments about Hamilton not knowing how to use his wheel are fairly stupid, as that's not what happened here. If the team had been able to tell him "change to xyz", in sure he would have known what to do on his wheel to accomplish that.

Precisely. All that rot about Hamilton not being clever enough to understand the wheel as well as Rosberg was beginning to leave a nasty taste.

[Emeye]

swisstoni said:

Precisely. All that rot about Hamilton not being clever enough to understand the wheel as well as Rosberg was beginning to leave a nasty taste.

Saying that, Rosberg is more of a thinking driver whereas Hamilton is instinctive, so I always thought that Rosberg would benefit from the radio ban.

Hamilton gets more stressed when there is a tech issue - Rosberg seems a lot cooler about it.

The irony is that Hamilton started the weekend slating the drivers who were moaning about the safety of the track, and then ends the weekend moaning about the safety of trying to troubleshoot a tech problem while driving.

But hey, that's fine. Because Hamilton.

[swisstoni]

Emeye said:

swisstoni said:

Precisely. All that rot about Hamilton not being clever enough to understand the wheel as well as Rosberg was beginning to leave a nasty taste.

Saying that, Rosberg is more of a thinking driver whereas Hamilton is instinctive, so I always thought that Rosberg would benefit from the radio ban.

Hamilton gets more stressed when there is a tech issue - Rosberg seems a lot cooler about it.

The irony is that Hamilton started the weekend slating the drivers who were moaning about the safety of the track, and then ends the weekend moaning about the safety of trying to troubleshoot a tech problem while driving.

But hey, that's fine. Because Hamilton.

Hamilton is 'instinctive' and Rosberg is 'thinking' .What are you basing all this on? Have you worked with them?

[AndrewEH1]

swisstoni said:

Hamilton is 'instinctive' and Rosberg is 'thinking' .What are you basing all this on? Have you worked with them?

+1,000.

All we know is what is 'reported'. (Read that as 'made up for clicks')

[hairyben]

Mr_Thyroid said:

Or certain drivers should knuckle down, concentrate, put down the celebrity bimbo and read the manual.

Ooh celebrity, thats fresh, must have taken you ages to think of, well done.

Stands to reason a front end designed to be operated by a driver when he had the support of a team of expert engineers sat comfortably at computers at his disposal, will be a different animal from one optimised for a driver whos having to do all the think and adjust on the fly.

[EagleMoto4-2]

Emeye said:

swisstoni said:

Precisely. All that rot about Hamilton not being clever enough to understand the wheel as well as Rosberg was beginning to leave a nasty taste.

Saying that, Rosberg is more of a thinking driver whereas Hamilton is instinctive, so I always thought that Rosberg would benefit from the radio ban.

Hamilton gets more stressed when there is a tech issue - Rosberg seems a lot cooler about it.

Really? So what happened to Rosberg in Barcelona when he had the wrong engine setting, then panicked and tried to put Hamilton in the wall. Not the actions of a cool driver who know's what he is doing.

[Mr_Thyroid]

swisstoni said:

rsbmw said:

Mr_Thyroid said:

Or certain drivers should knuckle down, concentrate, put down the celebrity bimbo and read the manual.

There have been many comments on here in the past about how manual gearboxes were great because the caused the drivers to make little slip ups. If one driver doesn't know all the setting then great, it increases the unpredictability of the racing. Of course in the last race it kind of prevented Hamilton from racing Perez, which was disappointing, but if it was the other way round it would have been great to see Perez catching and passing Hamilton for a podium spot - that is the kind of excitement we want to see.

It's just another skill that some drivers have and some don't - this is a non-issue.

For what we know, Hamilton may have understood his wheel and all of his settings perfectly. The engineers programmed something incorrectly which meant he then didn't know what was causing a problem, and they couldn't tell him what they had done wrong. Not a lot he could do with that situation except as he said himself on the radio started changing things, which he was told not to do. All the comments about Hamilton not knowing how to use his wheel are fairly stupid, as that's not what happened here. If the team had been able to tell him "change to xyz", in sure he would have known what to do on his wheel to accomplish that.

Precisely. All that rot about Hamilton not being clever enough to understand the wheel as well as Rosberg was beginning to leave a nasty taste.

Obviously the first sentence of my comment is fairly facetious. My real point is that this is no different to the mechanics fitting the wrong tyres or virtually anything else that goes wrong with the car - the driver has to deal with it. Things that mix up the racing order are good things in general.

[deadslow]

EagleMoto4-2 said:

Really? So what happened to Rosberg in Barcelona when he had the wrong engine setting, then panicked and tried to put Hamilton in the wall. Not the actions of a cool driver who know's what he is doing.

wow, just wow

[Emeye]

deadslow said:

EagleMoto4-2 said:

Really? So what happened to Rosberg in Barcelona when he had the wrong engine setting, then panicked and tried to put Hamilton in the wall. Not the actions of a cool driver who know's what he is doing.

wow, just wow

Hamilton Fangirls are also very instinctive.

[blueg33]

rsbmw said:

Mr_Thyroid said:

Or certain drivers should knuckle down, concentrate, put down the celebrity bimbo and read the manual.

There have been many comments on here in the past about how manual gearboxes were great because the caused the drivers to make little slip ups. If one driver doesn't know all the setting then great, it increases the unpredictability of the racing. Of course in the last race it kind of prevented Hamilton from racing Perez, which was disappointing, but if it was the other way round it would have been great to see Perez catching and passing Hamilton for a podium spot - that is the kind of excitement we want to see.

It's just another skill that some drivers have and some don't - this is a non-issue.

For what we know, Hamilton may have understood his wheel and all of his settings perfectly. The engineers programmed something incorrectly which meant he then didn't know what was causing a problem, and they couldn't tell him what they had done wrong. Not a lot he could do with that situation except as he said himself on the radio started changing things, which he was told not to do. All the comments about Hamilton not knowing how to use his wheel are fairly stupid, as that's not what happened here. If the team had been able to tell him "change to xyz", in sure he would have known what to do on his wheel to accomplish that.

Still up to the team to design something that will let the driver get quickly back to a known setting.

Driver needs to be able to operate the car and all of the parameters that can be altered whilst driving, he should not be spoon fed over the radio.

[deadslow]

blueg33 said:

Still up to the team to design something that will let the driver get quickly back to a known setting.

restore default/factory settings button?

[blueg33]

deadslow said:

blueg33 said:

Still up to the team to design something that will let the driver get quickly back to a known setting.

restore default/factory settings button?

Exactly, as per my first post near the start of he thread

[Halmyre]

deadslow said:

blueg33 said:

Still up to the team to design something that will let the driver get quickly back to a known setting.

restore default/factory settings button?

"Have you tried switching it off and on again?"

Hardware engineer: "it's a software issue"

Software engineer: "it's a hardware issue"

"Thank you for calling the Mercedes engine management helpline. Your call is important to us. Calls may be recorded for training purposes and the best examples will be posted on Facebook. Please select from the following options..."

[Crafty_]

Emeye said:

swisstoni said:

Precisely. All that rot about Hamilton not being clever enough to understand the wheel as well as Rosberg was beginning to leave a nasty taste.

Saying that, Rosberg is more of a thinking driver whereas Hamilton is instinctive, so I always thought that Rosberg would benefit from the radio ban.

Came across these articles today, I think they are quite interesting and challenge some of the preconceptions the great unwashed (thats us ) have about both drivers:

Written in 2014, before the last race:
Nico - https://willthef1journo.wordpress.com/2014/11/18/t...
Lewis - https://willthef1journo.wordpress.com/2014/11/19/t...

[Gareth1974]

deadslow said:

blueg33 said:

Still up to the team to design something that will let the driver get quickly back to a known setting.

restore default/factory settings button?

Fit three extra buttons on the wheel - CTRL, ALT, DEL

[Halmyre]

Gareth1974 said:

deadslow said:

blueg33 said:

Still up to the team to design something that will let the driver get quickly back to a known setting.

restore default/factory settings button?

Fit three extra buttons on the wheel - CTRL, ALT, DEL

But drivers only have two thumbs - back to the drawing board...