Jensons future
Discussion
Muzzer79 said:
So, you're saying that Rosberg (aged 31) has zero appeal to a "younger audience" in comparison to Alonso (aged 34)?
Rosberg is still relatively young, has won two-thirds of the number of races Alonso has, is pushing his team-mate (rated as one of, if not the best current drivers) hard for the title and, perhaps most crucially, is German. I don't especially like the guy, but it's hard to build a convincing case against him against Alonso.
The bosses of the German F1 team he drives for will have been very keen to keep him. I suspect the only delay was the length of the deal, money and perhaps clauses in relation to his partnership with Hamilton.
I often discuss drivers with a German friend of mine (who is a Ferrari dealer so maybe slightly biased) but he knows a lot of Motorsport people. He has told me several times that Rosberg does not have a lot of appeal in Germany and the average German does not perceive him as German, more a Monaco rich kid. As mentioned earlier, he actually used to race under a Finnish license.Rosberg is still relatively young, has won two-thirds of the number of races Alonso has, is pushing his team-mate (rated as one of, if not the best current drivers) hard for the title and, perhaps most crucially, is German. I don't especially like the guy, but it's hard to build a convincing case against him against Alonso.
The bosses of the German F1 team he drives for will have been very keen to keep him. I suspect the only delay was the length of the deal, money and perhaps clauses in relation to his partnership with Hamilton.
Alonso in contrast is a two time champion who came within a handful of points of being a four time champ, regularly shows true fighting spirit in an inferior car and is a charismatic guy with huge global appeal. And I do consider him an all time great, something I doubt Rosberg will ever be considered after he retires. And I was not a fan of Alonso for many years.
Rosberg, in my opinion has none of the above. Talented driver but the reason I have never warmed to him is his lack of close combat racing ability when other drivers in lesser cars often provide far more entertainment. I suspect many people feel this way, hence the great reception already given to Verstappen. Generally the marketable drivers are the racers and the fighters. Something Alonso most definitely is.
Daz68 said:
I hope so. Pat has been open that they aren't ready for an Alonso, so Jenson would be a great fit. Fantastic for the sponsors. Good team player. Highly experienced.I really hope we read in September of a 2 year deal at Williams for him.
Trabi601 said:
It's anyone's next season. If a team finds an aero dodge as Brawn did, then they could grab a big lead before everyone else works it out.
A big change to the general aero setup of the car suits the smaller teams anyway - chasing the last few tenths is very expensive in terms of testing, simulation and iterative production of prototype parts, so only the big teams can afford to do it properly, and even then it takes a while to get there. Assuming Williams' designers are on the ball they'll have a decent base car, and should still have the strongest engine.
davepoth said:
A big change to the general aero setup of the car suits the smaller teams anyway - chasing the last few tenths is very expensive in terms of testing, simulation and iterative production of prototype parts, so only the big teams can afford to do it properly, and even then it takes a while to get there.
Assuming Williams' designers are on the ball they'll have a decent base car, and should still have the strongest engine.
Yes, you're right. But given the fact that Williams seem unable to develop a car that is consistent across all circuits after 3 years of stable regulations, I find it difficult to believe (but dearly hope) that they'll suddenly find their mojo. Assuming Williams' designers are on the ball they'll have a decent base car, and should still have the strongest engine.
rubystone said:
Yes, you're right. But given the fact that Williams seem unable to develop a car that is consistent across all circuits after 3 years of stable regulations, I find it difficult to believe (but dearly hope) that they'll suddenly find their mojo.
I agree. The Martini deal was meant to be a new lease of life with a budget injection since 2013, the reality is their inability to compete with the hundreds of millions the big boys spend has meant they have steadily slid backwards. Even if we believe the conspiracy theories about Merc detuning customer engines, Force India have the same unit and an even smaller budget yet appear able to deliver more consistent results.
carinaman said:
Is it the Smedley factor or is it not his field of expertise?
He was in a very different role at Ferrari and you are right, his present role may be asking too much of his talents. There does seem to be a bit haphazard management there. In the old days with guys like Frank keeping the drivers in check, Patrick Head, Adrian Newey, Peter Windsor and Dickie Stanford there was a very clear hierarchy of very talented individuals all bringing their skills to the mix. They achieved fantastic results in the late 80s/early 90s despite being a relatively small operation and even then they had nothing like the budget of McLaren or Ferrari.
davepoth said:
A big change to the general aero setup of the car suits the smaller teams anyway - chasing the last few tenths is very expensive in terms of testing, simulation and iterative production of prototype parts, so only the big teams can afford to do it properly, and even then it takes a while to get there.
Assuming Williams' designers are on the ball they'll have a decent base car, and should still have the strongest engine.
I disagree. Long periods of stability mean the large teams experience diminishing returns while the smaller teams improve cheaply by copying and close the gap. Although with the new rules, I haven't studied them but understand they simplify the formula somewhat so shouldn't disadvantage the smaller teams too much.Assuming Williams' designers are on the ball they'll have a decent base car, and should still have the strongest engine.
Mr_Thyroid said:
I disagree. Long periods of stability mean the large teams experience diminishing returns while the smaller teams improve cheaply by copying and close the gap. Although with the new rules, I haven't studied them but understand they simplify the formula somewhat so shouldn't disadvantage the smaller teams too much.
Conversely, new regulations (and 2017's are significantly different) provide an opportunity for a small team to slay a few giants if they're better out of the box than their peers. Super Aguri optimised an old car with smart aero concepts and punched above their weight. Had Force India had the budget to release that nose earlier, they'd have been even closer to Williams last year. But over the course of a period of stability, the teams with more resources eke out more performance and realise those very incremental, very expensive, very small gains.
It's also worth making the point that increasingly nowadays, an aero concept involves the whole car. It isn't just a case of bolting on different bits. This makes it both expensive and very time consuming to copy an idea and make it work. Those two facts means that small teams are unlikely to be able to copy a concept and turn it round in the same season.
el stovey said:
majordad said:
Jenson is one of the best drivers around, IMHO better than LH even.
He's my favourite driver but I'm not sure he's better than Hamilton. He is also the only driver with any personality left. Except maybe Ricciardo.
Did anyone find out definitively what he meant by the team not being 'kind' to him?
I like his general dry, no-nonsense attitude, it's a real shame that his and Alonso's career have merged, at just the wrong time with regards to McLaren/Honda's current form...
In SO many ways this could've/should've been the dream team... seeing these two working SO hard generate a smile, let alone some points is really disheartening, history won't look back on this at all well.
I like his general dry, no-nonsense attitude, it's a real shame that his and Alonso's career have merged, at just the wrong time with regards to McLaren/Honda's current form...
In SO many ways this could've/should've been the dream team... seeing these two working SO hard generate a smile, let alone some points is really disheartening, history won't look back on this at all well.
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