Basic problems/solutions with Formula 1. Opinion not Fact.
Discussion
ZX10R NIN said:
No Tyre Warmers
I don't think you'd get a lot of drivers having half spins but within 1 or 2 test days they'd have worked it out how far they can push the tyres, but they'd be that time when they might just forget themselves, also after a safety car you don't see drivers spearing off so I don't think it should be to much of an issue.
While not at optimum temperatures I'd imagine that the tyres post-safety car are a good deal warmer then they would be from being put on fresh. Also in the absence of heating blankets you'd have an utter nightmare enforcing any kind of tyre pressure regulations. I think it would just create a monumental headache for all involved and forgive me but I can't see what the gain would be for the sport or the fans? Seems like an answer to a question no one is asking I'm afraid.I don't think you'd get a lot of drivers having half spins but within 1 or 2 test days they'd have worked it out how far they can push the tyres, but they'd be that time when they might just forget themselves, also after a safety car you don't see drivers spearing off so I don't think it should be to much of an issue.
ZX10R NIN said:
Starting Under The Safety Car
Okay I see some of your points but if someone is pitting after the safety car because of damage then that's fine but they'd only be doing that after the safety car has come in & they've had an accident somewhere on the circuit, not because they want to put Inters on but in the interests of fairness let's say you can't pit for 5 Laps after the safety car has come in.
I still think pretty much everything I said would still apply with a 5 lap buffer just on a smaller scale. Also (and I'm genuinely asking here not taking the piss) but what are you trying to achieve with this? They are pitting for inters as soon as the SC goes in because track conditions are right for them. Forcing cars to stay on the "wrong" tyres for 5 or 10 laps just feels nonsensical to me and I really don't see what anyone gains from doing it?Okay I see some of your points but if someone is pitting after the safety car because of damage then that's fine but they'd only be doing that after the safety car has come in & they've had an accident somewhere on the circuit, not because they want to put Inters on but in the interests of fairness let's say you can't pit for 5 Laps after the safety car has come in.
ZX10R NIN said:
Blue Flags
I like your idea of blue flag zones, mainly on the straights so those being passed lose less time if they're caught anywhere else then it's down to the person lapping to get it done earlier if they can.
Yeah I think it would be a good way of solving or at the very least reducing the whinging that we've seen lately, both from those being lapped (Gutierrez) and those doing the lapping (Vettel)I like your idea of blue flag zones, mainly on the straights so those being passed lose less time if they're caught anywhere else then it's down to the person lapping to get it done earlier if they can.
ZX10R NIN said:
Track Limits
No they try & work it out on a corner by corner basis, I find it amazing that they get away with the argument "we didn't gain an advantage" it's so simple these are supposed to be the best drivers in the world how is it that they can't stay in the confines of the track?
Ahh, I thought they had scrapped the corner by corner BS. Apologies!No they try & work it out on a corner by corner basis, I find it amazing that they get away with the argument "we didn't gain an advantage" it's so simple these are supposed to be the best drivers in the world how is it that they can't stay in the confines of the track?
ZX10R NIN said:
TV Footage
I do understand that they can't show it a full speed but pick a section or corner & at points during the race show the true speed of the cars.
Agreed - and at some of the circuits they do have individual camera angles/shots that do seem to show it better. To an extent I think there is always a certain degree of things looking slower on camera then they do in the flesh, even without any particular camera work. I'm sure someone far more versed in cameras/optics than me probably understands why I do understand that they can't show it a full speed but pick a section or corner & at points during the race show the true speed of the cars.
ZX10R NIN said:
Full Tanks
Yes I know the engineers will want to burn fuel & then run lean but if someone goes the other way & is running fully rich catching a guy that is now running lean it adds to the spectacle.
I sort of see what you are saying but ultimately I can't see it happening. On the majority of F1 circuits the penalty for carrying around extra fuel tends to exceed any benefits you'd get from running "richer and while I might be wrong on that it would require a massive U-turn from the governing body to abandon the psuedo-green stance they have taken and if that happens I'll eat a hat.Yes I know the engineers will want to burn fuel & then run lean but if someone goes the other way & is running fully rich catching a guy that is now running lean it adds to the spectacle.
At the drivers briefing Fernando and Lewis were asked for their opinions. And both gave very frank answers:-
Q: (Barna Zsoldos – Nemzeti Sport) Fernando, you said in an interview that, if the nature of Formula One next year doesn’t change significantly, you stop – even if you win the championship. Is it really that bad? And Lewis, what is your opinion on that: is driving the car nowadays really that bad?
FA: Well, I think I said, sometimes already that next year I finish my contract with McLaren, the one that I have now, so I will have to make a decision if I continue in Formula One or not. I think in the last couple of years, especially with this turbo engine era, the car is a little bit different to drive. I don’t say that it’s better or worse, everyone will have his opinion. I’ve been lucky enough to drive 2003 cars, 2004, 2005, even until 2009 the cars were, in my opinion, more extreme, more Formula One cars, so now when I see GP2 running three seconds away, or something like that in FP1 it feels a little bit sad. Cars are heavy. No grip. We save fuel, we save tyres, we save everything from lap one, so it’s a little bit against the instinct of the driver and next year is a big question mark. I think with the new regs everything will change a little bit. I think if the cars are fun to drive, are exciting to drive, I will probably stay longer and I will drive for more years in Formula One. If the cars are still giving me the feeling that I have in the last couple of years, probably I will stop. But it’s not related to whether you are competitive or not. If you are out in Q1 or winning a championship. It’s just you are enjoying driving the cars or you are not enjoying. Right now, in my opinion, the cars are not enjoyable. Probably because I drove other cars. If you arrive now to Formula One, these cars are very fast and very fun to drive – but not for me anymore.
And Lewis, your thoughts on the challenge provided by the cars?
LH: I agree with everything Fernando said really. There’s two aspects. Fernando’s obviously one of the best drivers we have here and yet he’s had an incredibly challenging last couple of years with a not competitive car, so it’s understandable if that continues that way then it’s no fun for any of us. We live and breathe to win. Knowing in himself that he could fight for a championship if he was sat next to me for example, in our car. In terms of the rules, the cars are going to be the same next year. It’s a different looking car, the same issues are going to be the same and, what Fernando’s saying, we slow down as soon as we’ve done the start and got that out of the way, generally we’re not pushing 100 per cent like perhaps they used to do. It was a more extreme race back in the day, it was a sprint. For us, all starting in go-karts, that’s what it was from the get-go, from the lights out it was a sprint race to the end. Formula One’s not about that anymore. It’s about preserving your tyres, preserving the battery power, preserving the turbo, preserving all these elements which are not what people tune in to see. So, the governing body is continuing to push the car. Next year’s still going to be even more heavy, probably not have great grip. The car will probably be faster but it will have the same characteristics, probably, as what we have now. I might be wrong but most-likely. We’ll drive the same next year, just with a heavier car, and having to save fuel, save tyres, do the same things. Yeah. Probably said more than I needed to say!
Q: (Barna Zsoldos – Nemzeti Sport) Fernando, you said in an interview that, if the nature of Formula One next year doesn’t change significantly, you stop – even if you win the championship. Is it really that bad? And Lewis, what is your opinion on that: is driving the car nowadays really that bad?
FA: Well, I think I said, sometimes already that next year I finish my contract with McLaren, the one that I have now, so I will have to make a decision if I continue in Formula One or not. I think in the last couple of years, especially with this turbo engine era, the car is a little bit different to drive. I don’t say that it’s better or worse, everyone will have his opinion. I’ve been lucky enough to drive 2003 cars, 2004, 2005, even until 2009 the cars were, in my opinion, more extreme, more Formula One cars, so now when I see GP2 running three seconds away, or something like that in FP1 it feels a little bit sad. Cars are heavy. No grip. We save fuel, we save tyres, we save everything from lap one, so it’s a little bit against the instinct of the driver and next year is a big question mark. I think with the new regs everything will change a little bit. I think if the cars are fun to drive, are exciting to drive, I will probably stay longer and I will drive for more years in Formula One. If the cars are still giving me the feeling that I have in the last couple of years, probably I will stop. But it’s not related to whether you are competitive or not. If you are out in Q1 or winning a championship. It’s just you are enjoying driving the cars or you are not enjoying. Right now, in my opinion, the cars are not enjoyable. Probably because I drove other cars. If you arrive now to Formula One, these cars are very fast and very fun to drive – but not for me anymore.
And Lewis, your thoughts on the challenge provided by the cars?
LH: I agree with everything Fernando said really. There’s two aspects. Fernando’s obviously one of the best drivers we have here and yet he’s had an incredibly challenging last couple of years with a not competitive car, so it’s understandable if that continues that way then it’s no fun for any of us. We live and breathe to win. Knowing in himself that he could fight for a championship if he was sat next to me for example, in our car. In terms of the rules, the cars are going to be the same next year. It’s a different looking car, the same issues are going to be the same and, what Fernando’s saying, we slow down as soon as we’ve done the start and got that out of the way, generally we’re not pushing 100 per cent like perhaps they used to do. It was a more extreme race back in the day, it was a sprint. For us, all starting in go-karts, that’s what it was from the get-go, from the lights out it was a sprint race to the end. Formula One’s not about that anymore. It’s about preserving your tyres, preserving the battery power, preserving the turbo, preserving all these elements which are not what people tune in to see. So, the governing body is continuing to push the car. Next year’s still going to be even more heavy, probably not have great grip. The car will probably be faster but it will have the same characteristics, probably, as what we have now. I might be wrong but most-likely. We’ll drive the same next year, just with a heavier car, and having to save fuel, save tyres, do the same things. Yeah. Probably said more than I needed to say!
Until CVCC stops taking its 30 pieces of silver from joke venues like Azerbaijan , solely so they can have bragging rights over other countries with too much cash, not enough democracy and no motor sport heritage , and which are then run in front of 8 ex pats and a dog, F1 will continue on its journey to hell in a handcart.
Christ, just listening to the commentators talk about tyre compounds , for f
k sake, it's almost every sentence, plus the lead in to the race. The viewing public can not see which car is on which tyre, just have one compound of tyre that lasts the whole race, shorten the race to 30 laps.
k sake, it's almost every sentence, plus the lead in to the race. The viewing public can not see which car is on which tyre, just have one compound of tyre that lasts the whole race, shorten the race to 30 laps.HustleRussell said:
markcoznottz said:
The viewing public can not see which car is on which tyre
Yes they can.markcoznottz said:
shorten the race to 30 laps.
Hahano.markcoznottz said:
HustleRussell said:
markcoznottz said:
The viewing public can not see which car is on which tyre
Yes they can.markcoznottz said:
shorten the race to 30 laps.
Hahano.HustleRussell said:
markcoznottz said:
HustleRussell said:
markcoznottz said:
The viewing public can not see which car is on which tyre
Yes they can.markcoznottz said:
shorten the race to 30 laps.
Hahano.markcoznottz said:
More than you pal. Btcc and moto gp are both more exciting than f1, you picked a moto gp race more tyre affected than any in living memory, hence why a satellite bike won a race, that won't happen on a dry race weekend. Again Btcc is highly exciting, still true to its club racing roots, F1 was always different, a lot happened off the track, but I find now the chat during and before/after the race is taking precedent over what's happening on track.
Having just watched BTCC race 3 at Rockingham funnily enough all the talk in the build up was about the different tire compounds and the effects they would have on the race and while it was a good race it wasn't a patch on the F1 today IMO. I watch a hell of a lot of motorsport live and I have to confess I find the whole subject of tyres tedious beyond words. It gives TV commentators something to talk about and the anorak tendency something to enthuse about but trust me - nobody in ten years time will say words like 'God- remember Plato's inspired tyre compound choice in the BTCC race at Rockingham ? Amazing - so glad I was there to watch it it; I nearly got off my sofa I was that excited.' The only time it can get interesting is when somebody changes from wets to dry first or vice versa .
markcoznottz said:
More than you pal. Btcc and moto gp are both more exciting than f1, you picked a moto gp race more tyre affected than any in living memory, hence why a satellite bike won a race, that won't happen on a dry race weekend. Again Btcc is highly exciting, still true to its club racing roots, F1 was always different, a lot happened off the track, but I find now the chat during and before/after the race is taking precedent over what's happening on track.
I didn't ask what you found exciting, I just commented that differing tyre compounds are a fact of racing life- a statement which you aren't contesting. If you want to see shorter races with one tyre your choices are endless but that isn't a Grand Prix.
coppice said:
I watch a hell of a lot of motorsport live and I have to confess I fins the whole subject of tyres tedious beyond words. It gives TV commentators something to talk about and the anorak tendency something to enthuse about but trust me - nobody in ten years time will say words like 'God- remember Plato's inspired tyre compound choice in the BTCC race at Rockingham ? Amazing - so glad I was there to watch it it; I nearly got off my sofa I was that excited.' The only time it can gets interesting is when somebody changes from wets to dry first or vice versa .
It's all about tyres though. I can't remember if you're a competitor or not but hang around in any paddock and it's about 40% tyre talk. Tyres are the single biggest variable affecting lap pace by whole seconds.It's like saying "I like cricket but I hate it when they talk about the wicket"
coppice said:
I watch a hell of a lot of motorsport live and I have to confess I find the whole subject of tyres tedious beyond words. It gives TV commentators something to talk about and the anorak tendency something to enthuse about but trust me - nobody in ten years time will say words like 'God- remember Plato's inspired tyre compound choice in the BTCC race at Rockingham ? Amazing - so glad I was there to watch it it; I nearly got off my sofa I was that excited.' The only time it can get interesting is when somebody changes from wets to dry first or vice versa .
It's almost refreshing watching the Porsche supercup, it's just, well, racing. HustleRussell said:
It's all about tyres though. I can't remember if you're a competitor or not but hang around in any paddock and it's about 40% tyre talk. Tyres are the single biggest variable affecting lap pace by whole seconds.
It's like saying "I like cricket but I hate it when they talk about the wicket"
No- I just hang around race circuits a lot . Anyway..give lots of choices and of course people will agonise over which ones to make . But the fact is that the tyres in F1 are entirely an artificial construct - Pirelli was tasked with self destructing tyres and that's what we get - it's just that some self destruct even more ludicrously quickly than others .It's like saying "I like cricket but I hate it when they talk about the wicket"
Having said all that I did rather enjoy the tyre wars in F1 , which could throw up some interesting anomalies- Hill at Hungaroring 97 and some exciting times with one lap qualifying tyres.Insanely dangerous though...
Blimey, a lot of recent talk about tyres and the BTCC.
This is just an observation and therefore the opinion I have, but I liked it the race was stopped on Sunday (Spa of course) so we could see the cars and other details/people/stuff we wouldn't normally see, via the tv.
Not sure what this has to do with the topic!
Also, the 'fixed' camera at the bottom of Eau Rouge was good to see. Real impression of speed. In fact all the cameras around that bend were ace.
This is just an observation and therefore the opinion I have, but I liked it the race was stopped on Sunday (Spa of course) so we could see the cars and other details/people/stuff we wouldn't normally see, via the tv.
Not sure what this has to do with the topic!
Also, the 'fixed' camera at the bottom of Eau Rouge was good to see. Real impression of speed. In fact all the cameras around that bend were ace.
Here is a little dilemma for some. Agree with Bernie or agree with regulations: http://en.f1i.com/news/69720-ecclestone-slams-sill...
Have fun
Have fun
It pains me to admit it - and it sure won't happen again - but for once BCE is right . The rules system seems to be designed for OCD saddos who spend too much time watching TV and haven't a girlfriend. It is utterly ludicrous that racing drivers are fined for impersonating racing drivers by trying , and sometimes failing , to overtake somebody. Short of a Schumacher or Senna style full frontal attack, drivers should be free to take chances .
Even more absurd are the idiotic tyre regs , but they seem the pinnacle of common sense in comparison to the asinine rules which give out engine tokens and impose penalties on teams whose racing car happens to break too often. Can't think Colin Chapman would have stuck around to long under this Emperor's New Clothes pantomime. Or Gordon Murray ..
Even more absurd are the idiotic tyre regs , but they seem the pinnacle of common sense in comparison to the asinine rules which give out engine tokens and impose penalties on teams whose racing car happens to break too often. Can't think Colin Chapman would have stuck around to long under this Emperor's New Clothes pantomime. Or Gordon Murray ..
coppice said:
It pains me to admit it - and it sure won't happen again - but for once BCE is right . The rules system seems to be designed for OCD saddos who spend too much time watching TV and haven't a girlfriend. It is utterly ludicrous that racing drivers are fined for impersonating racing drivers by trying , and sometimes failing , to overtake somebody. Short of a Schumacher or Senna style full frontal attack, drivers should be free to take chances .
Even more absurd are the idiotic tyre regs , but they seem the pinnacle of common sense in comparison to the asinine rules which give out engine tokens and impose penalties on teams whose racing car happens to break too often. Can't think Colin Chapman would have stuck around to long under this Emperor's New Clothes pantomime. Or Gordon Murray ..
You mean geeks?Even more absurd are the idiotic tyre regs , but they seem the pinnacle of common sense in comparison to the asinine rules which give out engine tokens and impose penalties on teams whose racing car happens to break too often. Can't think Colin Chapman would have stuck around to long under this Emperor's New Clothes pantomime. Or Gordon Murray ..
The kind of people who love 'data'?
The kind of people who have their own Youtube channel, set in a bedroom at their Mum and Dad's house, where they discuss the race, where 'strategy' is a big theme?
I'm thinking 'Robot Wars' would be better.
F1 should be glamorous, not a geekfest.
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