The Official 2016 German Grand Prix Thread **Spoilers**
Discussion
l354uge said:
Looked at the Rosberg incident again, looks like he came in too hot rather than doing the trick he tried on Hamilton. But he did force Verstappen off the track (which is okay on the exit kerb, not okay mid-corner!) if he gave the place back he probably would of got away with it.
If he had locked up or if he had turned in and slid then yes I would accept that, but it looks like he turned right at the end of the track, just after Max had to leave it. And I expect the stewards would have known what the data showed.......l354uge said:
Looked at the Rosberg incident again, looks like he came in too hot rather than doing the trick he tried on Hamilton. But he did force Verstappen off the track (which is okay on the exit kerb, not okay mid-corner!) if he gave the place back he probably would of got away with it.
Not sure if he did go in hot as there was no locking or snatching of the brake and he seemed to be quite slow past the point of no return, gently easing Max off the circuit.To me he looks to be travelling far too fast at the apex to make the corner, he decided to slow down the car in a straight and with little locking, to make sure he doesn't just lock up and wash out.
If he either locked up or turned in with too much speed he would of understeered and clattered into Max, which would of displeased the stewards even more!
Of course this is all external analysis, only person who really knew what Rosberg was doing was Rosberg, and hes not going to admit to that anytime soon...
If he either locked up or turned in with too much speed he would of understeered and clattered into Max, which would of displeased the stewards even more!
Of course this is all external analysis, only person who really knew what Rosberg was doing was Rosberg, and hes not going to admit to that anytime soon...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nw4XRlOWD_8
I don't think there is any malicious intent on Rosbergs' part, but I dod think he failed to adapt to the situation he found himself in.
Max changed direction under braking (he has a habit of doing this which is the only criticism I have of his driving, and the FIA for being inconsistent about their attitude towards it). This forces Rosberg to change direction. He was initially heading up alongside Max and would have held him wide under braking, then take a late but slow apex in order to get good drive and prevent Max from undercutting him. Instead he had to jink towards the apex to avoid Max, this now means he would overshoot the apex and have a very slow corner speed and exit, leaving him exposed either to the cutback, or around the outside. Max opted for the outside and Rosberg chose to let his car run further than necessary. Perhaps Max should have opted for the cutback?
I don't think there is any malicious intent on Rosbergs' part, but I dod think he failed to adapt to the situation he found himself in.
Max changed direction under braking (he has a habit of doing this which is the only criticism I have of his driving, and the FIA for being inconsistent about their attitude towards it). This forces Rosberg to change direction. He was initially heading up alongside Max and would have held him wide under braking, then take a late but slow apex in order to get good drive and prevent Max from undercutting him. Instead he had to jink towards the apex to avoid Max, this now means he would overshoot the apex and have a very slow corner speed and exit, leaving him exposed either to the cutback, or around the outside. Max opted for the outside and Rosberg chose to let his car run further than necessary. Perhaps Max should have opted for the cutback?
Flooble said:
Thanks for another awesome analysis DrZ. It's fascinating (well, to me) to see how they balance speed and tyre wear like that. Raikkonen's trace is interesting as in stint 3 he start off matching the pace of Hamilton and then just ends up nowhere!
Glad you found it interesting. 
Yeah, Raikkonen could not maintain that pace, even taking more out of the tyres than Hamilton. He ends up averaging two tenths slower per lap in that stint than Hamilton. Raikkonen was on scrubbed Super Softs vs Hamilton on brand new ones though.
groomi said:
Max changed direction under braking (he has a habit of doing this which is the only criticism I have of his driving, and the FIA for being inconsistent about their attitude towards it). This forces Rosberg to change direction.
I think that on this occasion Max was just taking his normal line into the corner and was shocked to see Rosberg steaming up the inside so took avoiding action.groomi said:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nw4XRlOWD_8
I don't think there is any malicious intent on Rosbergs' part, but I dod think he failed to adapt to the situation he found himself in.
Max changed direction under braking (he has a habit of doing this which is the only criticism I have of his driving, and the FIA for being inconsistent about their attitude towards it). This forces Rosberg to change direction. He was initially heading up alongside Max and would have held him wide under braking, then take a late but slow apex in order to get good drive and prevent Max from undercutting him. Instead he had to jink towards the apex to avoid Max, this now means he would overshoot the apex and have a very slow corner speed and exit, leaving him exposed either to the cutback, or around the outside. Max opted for the outside and Rosberg chose to let his car run further than necessary. Perhaps Max should have opted for the cutback?
Who the fI don't think there is any malicious intent on Rosbergs' part, but I dod think he failed to adapt to the situation he found himself in.
Max changed direction under braking (he has a habit of doing this which is the only criticism I have of his driving, and the FIA for being inconsistent about their attitude towards it). This forces Rosberg to change direction. He was initially heading up alongside Max and would have held him wide under braking, then take a late but slow apex in order to get good drive and prevent Max from undercutting him. Instead he had to jink towards the apex to avoid Max, this now means he would overshoot the apex and have a very slow corner speed and exit, leaving him exposed either to the cutback, or around the outside. Max opted for the outside and Rosberg chose to let his car run further than necessary. Perhaps Max should have opted for the cutback?
k are you, comical ali?Max "changed direction" as he tried to turn in twice and found doing so would mean being taken out by a berk in a merc leaving him no option but to go off track.
groomi said:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nw4XRlOWD_8
I don't think there is any malicious intent on Rosbergs' part, but I dod think he failed to adapt to the situation he found himself in.
Max changed direction under braking (he has a habit of doing this which is the only criticism I have of his driving, and the FIA for being inconsistent about their attitude towards it). This forces Rosberg to change direction. He was initially heading up alongside Max and would have held him wide under braking, then take a late but slow apex in order to get good drive and prevent Max from undercutting him. Instead he had to jink towards the apex to avoid Max, this now means he would overshoot the apex and have a very slow corner speed and exit, leaving him exposed either to the cutback, or around the outside. Max opted for the outside and Rosberg chose to let his car run further than necessary. Perhaps Max should have opted for the cutback?
Really?? Are you serious???I don't think there is any malicious intent on Rosbergs' part, but I dod think he failed to adapt to the situation he found himself in.
Max changed direction under braking (he has a habit of doing this which is the only criticism I have of his driving, and the FIA for being inconsistent about their attitude towards it). This forces Rosberg to change direction. He was initially heading up alongside Max and would have held him wide under braking, then take a late but slow apex in order to get good drive and prevent Max from undercutting him. Instead he had to jink towards the apex to avoid Max, this now means he would overshoot the apex and have a very slow corner speed and exit, leaving him exposed either to the cutback, or around the outside. Max opted for the outside and Rosberg chose to let his car run further than necessary. Perhaps Max should have opted for the cutback?
hairyben said:
Who the fk are you, comical ali?
Max "changed direction" as he tried to turn in twice and found doing so would mean being taken out by a berk in a merc leaving him no option but to go off track.
k are you, comical ali?Max "changed direction" as he tried to turn in twice and found doing so would mean being taken out by a berk in a merc leaving him no option but to go off track.
Funny.He's just repeating Rosberg's words that Max was 'moving in the braking zone' which was a lame attempt to justify his move. Clearly Rosberg was awake in the drivers' briefing the previous Thursday. He may even have taken notes and underlined that phrase with a red pen with a note ''must use that excuse next time the little sh*t humiliates me in a wheel to wheel battle again''...
Rosberg has been shown up several times by Max in recent races and outscored by him since Barcelona too so he clearly feels the need to undermine the young boy.
Not only does he have nightmares about Hamilton, he also now has a spotty kid to worry about too...
Edited by cgt2 on Thursday 4th August 00:00
cgt2 said:
hairyben said:
Who the fk are you, comical ali?
Max "changed direction" as he tried to turn in twice and found doing so would mean being taken out by a berk in a merc leaving him no option but to go off track.
k are you, comical ali?Max "changed direction" as he tried to turn in twice and found doing so would mean being taken out by a berk in a merc leaving him no option but to go off track.
Funny.He's just repeating Rosberg's words that Max was 'moving in the braking zone' which was a lame attempt to justify his move. Clearly Rosberg was awake in the drivers' briefing the previous Thursday. He may even have taken notes and underlined that phrase with a red pen with a note ''must use that excuse next time the little sh*t humiliates me in a wheel to wheel battle again''...
Rosberg has been shown up several times by Max in recent races and outscored by him since Barcelona too so he clearly feels the need to undermine the young boy.
Not only does he have nightmares about Hamilton, he also now has a spotty kid to worry about too...
Edited by cgt2 on Thursday 4th August 00:00
Last time Max had looked in his mirrors the Mercedes was waaay back... Then in the last part of his braking he saw that the Mercedes was coming in hot. In my opinion he made a half-arsed attempt to defend to the inside before realising that Rosberg was hopelessly overcommitted and such a move would've only resulted in neither car finishing the race, so he left a car's width or two on the inside. Rosberg did have to change his course during braking which would've inevitably extended his braking. He just really exaggerated that to the point of taking the piss.
hairyben said:
groomi said:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nw4XRlOWD_8
I don't think there is any malicious intent on Rosbergs' part, but I dod think he failed to adapt to the situation he found himself in.
Max changed direction under braking (he has a habit of doing this which is the only criticism I have of his driving, and the FIA for being inconsistent about their attitude towards it). This forces Rosberg to change direction. He was initially heading up alongside Max and would have held him wide under braking, then take a late but slow apex in order to get good drive and prevent Max from undercutting him. Instead he had to jink towards the apex to avoid Max, this now means he would overshoot the apex and have a very slow corner speed and exit, leaving him exposed either to the cutback, or around the outside. Max opted for the outside and Rosberg chose to let his car run further than necessary. Perhaps Max should have opted for the cutback?
Who the fI don't think there is any malicious intent on Rosbergs' part, but I dod think he failed to adapt to the situation he found himself in.
Max changed direction under braking (he has a habit of doing this which is the only criticism I have of his driving, and the FIA for being inconsistent about their attitude towards it). This forces Rosberg to change direction. He was initially heading up alongside Max and would have held him wide under braking, then take a late but slow apex in order to get good drive and prevent Max from undercutting him. Instead he had to jink towards the apex to avoid Max, this now means he would overshoot the apex and have a very slow corner speed and exit, leaving him exposed either to the cutback, or around the outside. Max opted for the outside and Rosberg chose to let his car run further than necessary. Perhaps Max should have opted for the cutback?
k are you, comical ali?Max "changed direction" as he tried to turn in twice and found doing so would mean being taken out by a berk in a merc leaving him no option but to go off track.
My opinion is based on watching the overhead replay in that clip. If the first move by Max was trying to turn in as you say, then he must have been intending to cut over the grass and drive though the barrier on the inside of the corner.
groomi said:
Wow, PH'er in rude post because he can't accept a difference of opinion shocker.
My opinion is based on watching the overhead replay in that clip. If the first move by Max was trying to turn in as you say, then he must have been intending to cut over the grass and drive though the barrier on the inside of the corner.
What ARE you on about? My opinion is based on watching the overhead replay in that clip. If the first move by Max was trying to turn in as you say, then he must have been intending to cut over the grass and drive though the barrier on the inside of the corner.
If you look at the long high shot from the rear on the replay you can clearly see verstappen begin a turn in, you can observe the laid down rubber on track, on what is to 21 drivers the racing line, which they both pass over. Nico is already blocking him, which is fine at that point, its then running him off the track that is the issue.
Flooble said:
Unfortunately the only conclusion the other drivers will be able to draw is that next time they see Rosberg on their inside, their best bet is to turn into him. It worked for Hamilton!
I think this is going to be a problem for Rosberg in future races. Once, fair enough, and on his team mate who he's not getting along with it, as a driver in another team you'd probably giggle. Second time, on a driver who was ahead at the time to do a lunge and then run them off the track, you get a reputation. The only possible plus point with this is the Mercedes dominance meaning he should technically be infront at the majority of the next few races, assuming the Mercedes is it's usual self, so he might not run into the problem for a little while.
Once you get a reputation like that though with other drivers, I'd imagine it's a hard one to shake. I wouldnt be surprised to have a situation where if drivers of RedBulls who are infront of Rosberg are sometimes a little slow and wide out of corners
andy-xr said:
I think this is going to be a problem for Rosberg in future races. Once, fair enough, and on his team mate who he's not getting along with it, as a driver in another team you'd probably giggle. Second time, on a driver who was ahead at the time to do a lunge and then run them off the track, you get a reputation.
The only possible plus point with this is the Mercedes dominance meaning he should technically be infront at the majority of the next few races, assuming the Mercedes is it's usual self, so he might not run into the problem for a little while.
Once you get a reputation like that though with other drivers, I'd imagine it's a hard one to shake. I wouldnt be surprised to have a situation where if drivers of RedBulls who are infront of Rosberg are sometimes a little slow and wide out of corners
Good point, I was pondering the same.The only possible plus point with this is the Mercedes dominance meaning he should technically be infront at the majority of the next few races, assuming the Mercedes is it's usual self, so he might not run into the problem for a little while.
Once you get a reputation like that though with other drivers, I'd imagine it's a hard one to shake. I wouldnt be surprised to have a situation where if drivers of RedBulls who are infront of Rosberg are sometimes a little slow and wide out of corners
With the stewards being as inconsistent and questionable as they are, the last thing you want is a reputation as it will lead them. Plus with the radio nicos had 3 raps in 4 races now.
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