The Official 2016 Belgian Grand Prix Thread **Spoilers**
Discussion
DS240 said:
For once, I hope there is no rain to spice things up.
It is looking like it will harder for them if it actually stays dry trying to keep life in the tyres.
I really don't get these penalties. Take a one race hit at a back row start and you can stock pile engines and accessories?!
This 'cheating' would soon stop if the 55 grid place penalties or whatever the total is, continued through to the next races until penalties cleared. No stock piling by Hamilton/Mercedes then!
It's a loop hole. Not 'cheating'. The solution is to either scrap the penalties or close the loop hole.It is looking like it will harder for them if it actually stays dry trying to keep life in the tyres.
I really don't get these penalties. Take a one race hit at a back row start and you can stock pile engines and accessories?!
This 'cheating' would soon stop if the 55 grid place penalties or whatever the total is, continued through to the next races until penalties cleared. No stock piling by Hamilton/Mercedes then!
Vaud said:
DS240 said:
For once, I hope there is no rain to spice things up.
It is looking like it will harder for them if it actually stays dry trying to keep life in the tyres.
I really don't get these penalties. Take a one race hit at a back row start and you can stock pile engines and accessories?!
This 'cheating' would soon stop if the 55 grid place penalties or whatever the total is, continued through to the next races until penalties cleared. No stock piling by Hamilton/Mercedes then!
It's a loop hole. Not 'cheating'. The solution is to either scrap the penalties or close the loop hole.It is looking like it will harder for them if it actually stays dry trying to keep life in the tyres.
I really don't get these penalties. Take a one race hit at a back row start and you can stock pile engines and accessories?!
This 'cheating' would soon stop if the 55 grid place penalties or whatever the total is, continued through to the next races until penalties cleared. No stock piling by Hamilton/Mercedes then!
Edited for bloomin autocorrect rubbish.
Edited by anonymous-user on Sunday 28th August 09:45
DS240 said:
.
I really don't get these penalties. Take a one race hit at a back row start and you can stock pile engines and accessories?!
This 'cheating' would soon stop if the 55 grid place penalties or whatever the total is, continued through to the next races until penalties cleared. No stock piling by Hamilton/Mercedes then!
It's funny how people think Hamilton / Mercedes here at Spa are the first to do this...I really don't get these penalties. Take a one race hit at a back row start and you can stock pile engines and accessories?!
This 'cheating' would soon stop if the 55 grid place penalties or whatever the total is, continued through to the next races until penalties cleared. No stock piling by Hamilton/Mercedes then!
As I said before (in 5 words not 4 ) it's the same for everyone.
Why should a driver be penalised for something he has absolutely no control or influence over? There should be no penalties at all in my view, as it was for the previous 50 odd years. F1 worked absolutely fine when the rules were open. I remember Monaco 1990 when there was a huge pile up on the first lap. Under the present rules we would have been denied seeing Prost and Berger racing instead of being allowed to take spare cars.
I want to see the best drivers battling on equal terms, I could give a flying f*** about how many components are used etc and for me this is the perfect illustration of how out of touch F1 is with the fan base.
This year one driver led the championship because the other repeatedly had reliability issues, this is not a fight on equal terms and gives a very artificial picture.
The fact that Hamilton overturned such a huge deficit and is 19 points ahead speaks volumes about who is the world champion level driver of the two. On a psychological level it's interesting but I'd much rather have seen them actually race on equal terms with no penalties. Same for Alonso, we probably won't get much of a chance to see how he gets on with the updated Honda until the next race now.
) it's the same for everyone.Why should a driver be penalised for something he has absolutely no control or influence over? There should be no penalties at all in my view, as it was for the previous 50 odd years. F1 worked absolutely fine when the rules were open. I remember Monaco 1990 when there was a huge pile up on the first lap. Under the present rules we would have been denied seeing Prost and Berger racing instead of being allowed to take spare cars.
I want to see the best drivers battling on equal terms, I could give a flying f*** about how many components are used etc and for me this is the perfect illustration of how out of touch F1 is with the fan base.
This year one driver led the championship because the other repeatedly had reliability issues, this is not a fight on equal terms and gives a very artificial picture.
The fact that Hamilton overturned such a huge deficit and is 19 points ahead speaks volumes about who is the world champion level driver of the two. On a psychological level it's interesting but I'd much rather have seen them actually race on equal terms with no penalties. Same for Alonso, we probably won't get much of a chance to see how he gets on with the updated Honda until the next race now.
I think the overall point is that teams aren't abusing the rule. All that's happening is teams are pretty much putting themselves back into the position they would be in if they hadn't had malfunctions. It's not like Merc have taken 9 new ones of everything to have a fresh power unit for each remaining race.
If a team did that I think theirs a 'bringing the sport into disrepute' type punishment they could receive.
If a team did that I think theirs a 'bringing the sport into disrepute' type punishment they could receive.
37chevy said:
DS240 said:
For once, I hope there is no rain to spice things up.
It is looking like it will harder for them if it actually stays dry trying to keep life in the tyres.
I really don't get these penalties. Take a one race hit at a back row start and you can stock pile engines and accessories?!
This 'cheating' would soon stop if the 55 grid place penalties or whatever the total is, continued through to the next races until penalties cleared. No stock piling by Hamilton/Mercedes then!
WHAT 'CHEATING'? Last time checked the rules were very clear...Mercedes Ade going a very smart thing and giving Hamilton the best chance of winning the championship...after the Mercedes team let him down with reliability problems earlier in the year...he's still got to start from the back of the grid, one hell of a penalty when your team mate is at the front. It is looking like it will harder for them if it actually stays dry trying to keep life in the tyres.
I really don't get these penalties. Take a one race hit at a back row start and you can stock pile engines and accessories?!
This 'cheating' would soon stop if the 55 grid place penalties or whatever the total is, continued through to the next races until penalties cleared. No stock piling by Hamilton/Mercedes then!
Wonder if you'd be saying the same thing if Rosberg or vettel was in hamiltons position?!and let's face it Mercedes aren't the only ones who have done this over the last couple of years.
I know they aren't cheating as such but worded it like that because a loophole in the rules really is just that, it's just a dumbed down way of making their actions acceptable. It surely wasn't intended to work this way and working against the rules isn't in the spirit of what they were trying to achieve.
Why wouldn't I say the same thing if it were Rosberg or vettel? It's not an attack on Hamilton or Mercedes and I'm sure others have done it, but this loophole only seems to have been highlighted in this case.
cgt2 said:
This year one driver led the championship because the other repeatedly had reliability issues, this is not a fight on equal terms and gives a very artificial picture.
As long as cars are mechanical objects they will be affected by unreliability. It has always been the case and always will be. This isn't the first year that unreliability has had an effect on the championship. You're only whining about it now because of your personal feelings towards the drivers, and the 'wrong' driver has benefitted.Over time these things tend to even themselves out, and as you like to say it's the same for everyone.
thegreenhell said:
As long as cars are mechanical objects they will be affected by unreliability. It has always been the case and always will be. This isn't the first year that unreliability has had an effect on the championship. You're only whining about it now because of your personal feelings towards the drivers, and the 'wrong' driver has benefitted.
Over time these things tend to even themselves out, and as you like to say it's the same for everyone.
Oh dear..I'm not whining, simply stating that the championship is skewed artificially due to unreliability. Over time these things tend to even themselves out, and as you like to say it's the same for everyone.
You miss my point. To further penalise a driver who has already suffered the first time(s) with the mechanical issue is effectively a double hit and makes the rules look extremely stupid.
cgt2 said:
DS240 said:
but this loophole only seems to have been highlighted in this case.
You must have missed McLaren's entire 2015 season then...Then Honda came along and showed everyone how to run the worlds most expensive engine testing program.
imho the penalty system was okay when we had the "hold over" rule to the next race, but Honda and Renault's horrible reliability last year put an end to it.
I don't particularly like the drivers championship being affected by the penalties.
Next year the limit drops from 5 of each component to 4 and then to 3 in 2018.
I think it'd be better to have an allowance of say 8 of each component. At the end of the season the team gets credited some WCC points for each unused component. This helps small teams because they can opt not to buy components and run older items, saving money and giving them some WCC points. On the other hand a team can decide to use fresh components and forfeit the bonuses in the hope they can "earn" the points on track.
I don't particularly like the drivers championship being affected by the penalties.
Next year the limit drops from 5 of each component to 4 and then to 3 in 2018.
I think it'd be better to have an allowance of say 8 of each component. At the end of the season the team gets credited some WCC points for each unused component. This helps small teams because they can opt not to buy components and run older items, saving money and giving them some WCC points. On the other hand a team can decide to use fresh components and forfeit the bonuses in the hope they can "earn" the points on track.
London424 said:
I think the overall point is that teams aren't abusing the rule. All that's happening is teams are pretty much putting themselves back into the position they would be in if they hadn't had malfunctions. It's not like Merc have taken 9 new ones of everything to have a fresh power unit for each remaining race.
If a team did that I think theirs a 'bringing the sport into disrepute' type punishment they could receive.
I don't think it would even be possible to take 9 new engines, as don't they have to fit and run them?If a team did that I think theirs a 'bringing the sport into disrepute' type punishment they could receive.
They take a couple of hours to fit, so only really possible to take around 3/4?
I don't really see the issue, its just putting hamilton back into the position he would have been without the failures, whilst potentially sacrificing a race.
Having 3 10 place penalties as 3 races due to failures at start of the season is not really in the spirit of the sport.
DS240 said:
Oh dear.. Lets not over react!
I know they aren't cheating as such but worded it like that because a loophole in the rules really is just that, it's just a dumbed down way of making their actions acceptable. It surely wasn't intended to work this way and working against the rules isn't in the spirit of what they were trying to achieve.
Why wouldn't I say the same thing if it were Rosberg or vettel? It's not an attack on Hamilton or Mercedes and I'm sure others have done it, but this loophole only seems to have been highlighted in this case.
Not over reacting! F1 is all about chasing the loopholes in the rules, but this one is black and white what they can and cannot do....you seem to be using lewis/ Mercedes and a point but many teams have done this over the last couple of years. Teams cannot be held responsible for the FIAs inability to write rules, nor do I think drivers should be penilised for teams/ manufacturers errors. If they want to punish for using too many engines, knock 10 points off them in the constructors championship and leave the grid aloneI know they aren't cheating as such but worded it like that because a loophole in the rules really is just that, it's just a dumbed down way of making their actions acceptable. It surely wasn't intended to work this way and working against the rules isn't in the spirit of what they were trying to achieve.
Why wouldn't I say the same thing if it were Rosberg or vettel? It's not an attack on Hamilton or Mercedes and I'm sure others have done it, but this loophole only seems to have been highlighted in this case.
Strange, they are putting him behind Alonso when he had a 'free' pass, and giving him even more of a mountain to climb. Unless Mercedes didn't trust him not to try and make up a load of the places at the start, which is relatively viable at SpA with the large run off available at turn 1.
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