The Official 2016 Belgian Grand Prix Thread **Spoilers**
Discussion
Doink said:
With Lewis ironically 1 PU better off than nico now (how did that happen) 
anyone thinking nico may take an engine penalty at monza himself, it'll only be 10 places after all, easily made up if he can avoid any mid pack shananigans at the start
You can't be serious? He can't pass without crashing! anyone thinking nico may take an engine penalty at monza himself, it'll only be 10 places after all, easily made up if he can avoid any mid pack shananigans at the startJasandjules said:
In fairness I think Vettel said in interview he should (arguably) have left more room on the first corner.
I'm irritated by what he did because I was looking forward to a really exciting race up front. Even if, as I expected, NR shot off into the distance, there would have been a four-, possibly 6-way fight for second and towards the end LH might have come into play.Could have been a classic.
Derek Smith said:
Kimi said "After the start, at the first corner, Sebastian didn’t see that there was another car on the inside: he expected me to turn but I couldn’t, so I found myself stuck in the middle with nowhere to go. We ended up touching each other and this was pretty bad for the rest of the race . . ."
That's no ringing endorsement of his teammate's actions. All it does is give a reason. Of course Seb expected Kimi to turn in, but he made an assumption. That's not good enough at any first corner and certainly not at Spa. He knows better.
I dunno, I check my blind spots any time I'm in a road going car, but that comes from riding motor bikes, I'm afraid I'm still on Vettel's side of the fence on this one. Kimi says there is no way Vettel could have known Max was torpedoing up the inside (was Max four wheels off track?), I'm inclined to agree with Kimi.That's no ringing endorsement of his teammate's actions. All it does is give a reason. Of course Seb expected Kimi to turn in, but he made an assumption. That's not good enough at any first corner and certainly not at Spa. He knows better.
It's a racing incident, personally I don't think Vettel was entirely to blame on this one, and although I said I'd choose him to go for beer with, I don't really have a favourite driver or team in this sport.
Derek Smith said:
As for Vettel, I didn't warm to him when he was at RB. I'm not sure why. It can't be that he had tremendous self-confidence, otherwise I'd not warm to any F1 driver. Like you I've been enjoying his more relaxed style and I've looked forward to his comments. This incident won't stop me doing that. But he was in the wrong.
- It's good to disagree and remain perfectly civil - Max was wrong Vettel was entirely on plan for that corner 
Derek Smith said:
As for going out for a meal? I wouldn't pick a driver. I'd go for Toto, Claire or, if they both stood me up, I'd go with Ron. But with both Claire, and to a greater extent, Ron I'd be wishing it was Toto.
Make of that what you will.
You missed out the beer bit Make of that what you will.
(OT - our rugby season starts again on Friday so I'll resurrect the minis coaching thread again - your input there would be appreciated.)
Watching the post race interviews with Ricciardo grinning, Rosberg doing his sulky lower lip stuck out routine and Hamilton beaming tells a story of who really came out of today better.
Ricciardo's face when Rosberg was asked if he had an easy race is comedy gold. Lewis managed to keep a straight face..
Ricciardo's face when Rosberg was asked if he had an easy race is comedy gold. Lewis managed to keep a straight face..
I'm no Ferarri fan but today was a shame for them; Max was kamikaze and trying a little bit too hard... he needs to wind his neck in a little bit. He got mugged off the start and must have thought 'no way!' And just gone hurtling down the inside. I don't see it as Vettel or Kimi's fault at all. Maybe Vettel with all of his experience now; should have guessed what could have been but really, Kimi was already right on the inside... Max was almost completely off the track.
I really like Max but today was a sign of his immaturity. If he gets a handle on that ASAP then he'll still be awesome - but if he lets his own hype overtake the reality; he could get stuck in a rut of trying to over-impress.
I really like Max but today was a sign of his immaturity. If he gets a handle on that ASAP then he'll still be awesome - but if he lets his own hype overtake the reality; he could get stuck in a rut of trying to over-impress.
TheExcession said:
ou missed out the beer bit
(OT - our rugby season starts again on Friday so I'll resurrect the minis coaching thread again - your input there would be appreciated.)
So does ours. I'm away for our first two matches.(OT - our rugby season starts again on Friday so I'll resurrect the minis coaching thread again - your input there would be appreciated.)
I'm not suggesting Vettel did anything that required punishment, just that he should know, he does know, how difficult La Source is. Take care or take yourself out. I expected better of him.
You've got a PM.
Derek
cgt2 said:
I see a lot of frustration in Vettel at the moment. It must be very hard being in his position as a 4 time champion (which Lewis appears to be marching towards too). Vettel and Alonso both deserve more and it appears McLaren is progressing whilst Ferrari is regressing.
He seemed daft at the time of leaving and has seemed even more daft since, but maybe Alonso was right all along. As others have noted, it would appear that Alonso was correct with his statement regarding Ferrari and Vettel is probably now realising he has condemned himself to several years of toiling around never quite being in contention for the Championship. Arrivabene seemed a little erratic on the grid walk didn't he?
FeelingLucky said:
ZX10R NIN said:
Sylvaforever said:
As you claim "I'm not a Nico fan" I would just like to point out/remind you that you called the above 50% Hamiltons fault.
And that's only one of Rosbergs "errors of judgement" so far this season.
You're in a tiny minority though, I've yet to read any objective opinion that put's it at 50/50.
Surely you appreciate "gaps closing" are due to cars/drivers aiming at an apex, do you see one in the photo?
The only thing NR was aiming for, was to put LH on the grass, clearly.
Lewis with his momentum had a decision to make as to where he thought Nico would be a on the track 2 seconds later, he guessed wrong by assuming Nico wouldn't cover the inside.
I am in the minority but that's fine the world would be a boring place if we all agreed on everything.
I will say having raced bikes the onus would be on me as the person overtaking to either get to the point where another rider could see/hear that I was there, at which point I've earnt my racing room or I back out because if we have an accident it's on me.
Yes Lewis's momentum meant he ran out of road but had he just taken the racing line he may have swept pass Nico in the same manner that Nico did to him earlier in the lap.
We're are talking about split second decisions that even the best in the world will get wrong.
Back to today Max was a lucky guy today all four wheels of the track he hits Kimi (lightly I may add) who was in turn being squeezed by Seb so 50/50 for Max & Seb.
Max was on a mission today some questionable moves but no penalties so that means he must have played within the rules (somehow) he's laying down markers so people don't fight as hard.
Just look at the restart Massa could have easily put Lewis down a place but because it was Lewis (who'd put many a marker on Massa) Massa backed out if that had been Seb/Max Lewis would have lost that spot or would have to have fought hard to stay in front.
So did I like some of Max's moves? Not all but I understood exactly why he was doing it.
Edited by ZX10R NIN on Sunday 28th August 22:17
Derek Smith said:
I'm not suggesting Vettel did anything that required punishment, just that he should know, he does know, how difficult La Source is. Take care or take yourself out. I expected better of him.
La Source is funny, it isn't much slower to miss the apex- in fact Vettel was probably tighter to the apex in turn 1, lap 1, than Rosberg was on his pole lap.ZX10R NIN said:
I stand by my opinion leading up to that photo & the onboards Nico was going right to keep the inside line even before he realised how much of a run Lewis had.
Lewis with his momentum had a decision to make as to where he thought Nico would be a on the track 2 seconds later, he guessed wrong by assuming Nico wouldn't cover the inside.
I am in the minority but that's fine the world would be a boring place if we all agreed on everything.
I will say having raced bikes the onus would be on me as the person overtaking to either get to the point where another rider could see/hear that I was there, at which point I've earnt my racing room or I back out because if we have an accident it's on me.
Yes Lewis's momentum meant he ran out of road but had he just taken the racing line he may have swept pass Nico in the same manner that Nico did to him earlier in the lap.
We're are talking about split second decisions that even the best in the world will get wrong,
..and if you knew you had a problem with your bike which meant you were down on power compared to the cars behind you, would you not be expecting the guys behind to be closing quickly? Would you move erratically, unpredictably and risk getting arse ended? If you have one ounce of sense or race craft, I think not.Lewis with his momentum had a decision to make as to where he thought Nico would be a on the track 2 seconds later, he guessed wrong by assuming Nico wouldn't cover the inside.
I am in the minority but that's fine the world would be a boring place if we all agreed on everything.
I will say having raced bikes the onus would be on me as the person overtaking to either get to the point where another rider could see/hear that I was there, at which point I've earnt my racing room or I back out because if we have an accident it's on me.
Yes Lewis's momentum meant he ran out of road but had he just taken the racing line he may have swept pass Nico in the same manner that Nico did to him earlier in the lap.
We're are talking about split second decisions that even the best in the world will get wrong,
The point is, Nico was slow, he knew he was slow. He knew he was likely to be passed. He blocked on the straight causing a collision with his team mate. Had it been a driver from another team, Mercedes would have protested vociferously.
Anyway, old news, interesting race today. Nasty shunt for the Renault at Eau Rouge, glad he got out ok. Max was a liability throughout and needs to have his wings clipped before we have another Patrese/Webber style flip. He needs to be getting drive thrus every time he waits for the car behind to move and then blocks on the straight. He seems to do it every race now, Rosberg is the only other noticeable one due to the infamous incident this year and a couple previously in the desert. It is only a matter of time before it all goes tits up for Max and some other poor sod. If you have a speed advantage on the straight, in F1 you do not expect a block / shove off the circuit, the rules have for a long time enabled you to have that expectation and trust in your competitors, and Max is way out of order and behaving like a rookie. Not too clever close to another car in the corners either on today's evidence - or when close to the Armco at Monaco over the last two years IIRC. He is quick but I have concerns about his mental approach and precision.
Glad Fred managed to drag the McLaren into a good finish, shame about Jenson, could have been ahead of Fred from that grid position. Lewis had a sensible, very reserved start and progressed well to third which is good for his championship hopes. Nico cruised it, good for his chances too.
Driver of the day for me, Fred.
cgt2 said:
Nico doesn't have much to say but certainly seems refreshingly pragmatic compared to the fanboy/media storm that builds up around these two.Show up, do your best, maximum points, what Lewis does is totally beyond his control so why even waste a thought on it?
Leithen said:
It's easy to pin the blame on Vettel for the first corner, and he admits he regrets not leaving more room. But it's easy to understand why he took the line he did if you look at this photo. The last he sees of Verstappen is his teammate clearly ahead of him and himself overhauling him. He must of expected Kimi to take the apex and remember, it's a hairpin, not a 90 degree right.
This picture shows how incredibly cautious Kimi was on the way into La Source. By the time there was contact Max was almost fully alongside and Seb was half a car length in front. And all were fully capable of making the corner 2 wide (just not 3). Lewis was also very cautious into La Source, allowing Fred to jump him. But staying out of trouble was clearly order of the day and who can blame him for that after the Chinese debacle.Jez
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