The Official 2016 Belgian Grand Prix Thread **Spoilers**
Discussion
cgt2 said:
I don't think anyone was commenting on his la source incident (in fact I thought he did put himself in a no win situation BUT it was what you would expect from a hard pusher) BUT his defence when basically there was no defence to a faster car that has marked out his as a flawed character.He needs to go and talk to his elders in the sport and realise that, eventually, if you keep giving out then you will be paid back and it may not be from the direction he expects.
I remember Webber and Alonso, wheel to wheel through, raidillion flat out, real heart in mouth stuff, but two drivers who respected each other and knew when to cede.
Max needs to learn that, as IMO, it is the mark of the truely great drivers.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=PNUvBHKciYQ
Edited by Sylvaforever on Monday 29th August 12:42
rdjohn said:
The Hulk reckons the red flag cost him a podium yesterday. http://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/hulkenberg-says-...
I suspect that the main beneficiary had the race not been stopped would have been Lewis. The fastest tyre strategy was probably Med, Med, Soft. Having followed Fernando through the field, but able to easy pass, when needed, Lewis almost certainly would have held track position and conserved enough tyre on the first stint to pull a decent gap on the others as they inevitably pitted away from their Softs.
i agree. He was fifth with those in front having an additional stop to him. Certainly second would have been the expectation. That said the first corner incident gave him a significant advantage over the rest of the field. So swings and roundabouts, but certainly the red flag cost him.I suspect that the main beneficiary had the race not been stopped would have been Lewis. The fastest tyre strategy was probably Med, Med, Soft. Having followed Fernando through the field, but able to easy pass, when needed, Lewis almost certainly would have held track position and conserved enough tyre on the first stint to pull a decent gap on the others as they inevitably pitted away from their Softs.
Crafty_ said:
The point is Rosberg isn't a patch on other drivers past and present in terms of racing.
He's Coulthard. Good driver, not a great racer.
Didn't Rosberg equal Raikkonen's number of victories yesterday? Which is 5 or 6 more than Button as well...... yet I don't think anyone would put Rosberg on the same level as Button or Raikkonen when it comes to being a true racer. He's Coulthard. Good driver, not a great racer.
I quite like Rosberg but he is clearly benefiting from being in the right place at the right time. You never get the feeling he would produce a miracle drive like Button in Canada or Raikkonen in Japan.
Crafty_ said:
But why was he so hot headed ? Because he screwed up. His start was slow, he then has contact which has to be fixed, meanwhile he's lost a ton of places, he's in front of what is basically his home crowd and he's screwed up. He got desperate, he lost his cool.
...
I honestly think he's a smart, mature person even if he doesn't like it I reckon he'll understand he needs to accept he did wrong in order to succeed and be a better driver.
Not mature enough seemingly, this sounds utterly childish and totally inappropriate for someone driving an F1 car:...
I honestly think he's a smart, mature person even if he doesn't like it I reckon he'll understand he needs to accept he did wrong in order to succeed and be a better driver.
"If they screw up my race, I'm not going to make it easy for them, I think they should understand that. I'm not going to say: 'come on through'. But all that happened after turn one. If turn one hadn't happened, I wouldn't have been so aggressive and pushed Raikkonen out like that."
TheInternet said:
Not mature enough seemingly, this sounds utterly childish and totally inappropriate for someone driving an F1 car:
"If they screw up my race, I'm not going to make it easy for them, I think they should understand that. I'm not going to say: 'come on through'. But all that happened after turn one. If turn one hadn't happened, I wouldn't have been so aggressive and pushed Raikkonen out like that."
reference?"If they screw up my race, I'm not going to make it easy for them, I think they should understand that. I'm not going to say: 'come on through'. But all that happened after turn one. If turn one hadn't happened, I wouldn't have been so aggressive and pushed Raikkonen out like that."
Sylvaforever said:
reference?
Apols.. should've put it in: Max Verstappen will cause huge accident, says Kimi Raikkonen - BBC SportGod help Max if he does the same and takes a Ferrari out at Monza. The Tifosi would be up on a murder charge but they'd struggle to find any witnesses.
Blayney said:
LandR said:
GCH said:
Here are his race win stats, posted previously in an old thread discussing rosbergs racecraft...(or lack of it)
20 wins, 13 have been from Pole position.
I think this is probably comparable to most F1 drivers. In fact, let's look at Lewis Hamiltons wins. 20 wins, 13 have been from Pole position.
He has 49 wins.
28 of those wins were from pole position
Wins 49
From pole:
2007 - Canada
2007 - USA
2007 - Hungary
2007 - Japan
2008 - Australia
2008 - Germany
2008 - China
2009 - Singapore
2010 - Canada
2012 - Hungary
2012 - Italy
2013 - HUngary
2014 - Malaysia
2014 - China
2014 - Spain
2014 - Italy
2014 - Singapore
2014 - Russia
2015 - Australia
2015 - China
2015 - Bahrain
2015 - Canada
2015 - British
2015 - Belgium
2015 - Italy
2016 - Canada
2016 - Austria
2016 - British
15 of the wins were from the front row:
2010 - Turkey
2010 - Belgium
2011 - Germany
2011 - Abu Dhabi
2012 - Canda
2012 - USA
2014 - Bahrain
2014 - Japan
2014 - USA
2014 - Abu Dhabi
2015 - Japan
2015 - Russia
2015 - USA
2016 - HUngary
2016 - Germany
That means out of 49 wins, 6 wins were from races where he didn't start on the front row. I bet if you went through most F1 drivers wins, you would find the same sort of numbers.
It's rare to win from back in the pack for anyone.
2010 - Turkey - Bad pit stop put him behind Vettel, Vettel and Webber crashed out
2010 - Belgium - Webber went to anti-stall on start
2011 - Germany - Webber bogged down on start
2011 - Abu Dhabi - Vettel got a puncture on the first corner
2012 - Canada - Pit stops, passes, and a decent fight with Alonso and Vettel
2012 - USA - Webber passed him on 1st corner, passes on Webber and Vettel through the race.
2014 - Bahrain - Hamilton v Rosberg all the way. One of the classics.
2014 - Japan - Wet race. Hamilton v Rosberg. Red flag for Bianchi.
2014 - USA - Hamilton v Rosberg.
2014 - Abu Dhabi - Rosberg's car slowly shut down over the race.
2015 - Japan - Rosberg dropped behind Hamilton, Bottas and Vettel.
2015 - Russia - Rosberg retired, throttle stuck open.
2015 - USA - Wet start, took Rosberg on first corner. fight with Ricciardo and Rosberg on drying track, inters to slicks.
2016 - Hungary - Passed Rosberg at start, Hamilton v Rosberg through the race.
2016 - Germany - Passed Rosberg at start
Hamilton wins from 3rd and back
2008 - Monaco - Wet. Started 3rd - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_Monaco_Grand_Pr...
2008 - British. Wet. Started 4th - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_British_Grand_P...
2009 - Hungary - Started 4th - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009_Hungarian_Grand...
2011 - China - Started 3rd - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_Chinese_Grand_P...
2014 - British - Started 6th - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_British_Grand_P...
2016 - Monaco - Started 3rd - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_Monaco_Grand_Pr...
Here we go again, get your handbags ready: http://www.f1today.net/en/news/f1/216286/red-bull-... original article http://www.autobild.de/artikel/formel-1-technik-in...
Unnamed "rivals" suggesting that RBR are running a diffuser that flexes illegally, Marko says its slander...
Unnamed "rivals" suggesting that RBR are running a diffuser that flexes illegally, Marko says its slander...
Derek Smith said:
HustleRussell said:
La Source is funny, it isn't much slower to miss the apex- in fact Vettel was probably tighter to the apex in turn 1, lap 1, than Rosberg was on his pole lap.
I thought that Vettel was trying to compromise Kimi's line out of the corner to get to Eau Rouge first. That's perfectly legitimate.I've had a look at the incident again, and it is clear that Max was fully alongside Kimi well before the corner. He braked fractionally before Kimi, leaving his front wing slightly behind Kimi's offisde front wheel, but one would expect that as he was taking a tighter line. The line was valid. From the overhead shot it can be seen that two other drivers took the same line without problem, one being a Force India right behind Max.
There would have been no problems without the intervention of Vettel. He turned in sharply, as can be seen from the overhead shot.
He overtook a slower, but accelerating Max off the line so knew he was there and interested.
That doesn't absolve Max of his later indiscretions of course.
As others have said, Max won't want to concede anything about his driving in public. It's a significant strength as a driver to have other drivers 'fear' you- to give you that second look in the mirrors, to subconsciously alter their lines to cover you off even if you're not really close enough to attack, keep 'em guessing... It's exactly this which will make other drivers make mistakes under pressure. Just think of Senna and his other worldly aura, the way he would talk about his faith... Other drivers felt that Senna thought himself invulnerable, how could they take the same risks?
HustleRussell said:
Agree entirely. Vettel was being greedy. Max was, at no point, 'four wheels off' as people had suggested. It's hard to deduce whether Max and Kimi would've touched had Vettel not cut across them, but if they had, it probably would've been a very slight one.
As others have said, Max won't want to concede anything about his driving in public. It's a significant strength as a driver to have other drivers 'fear' you- to give you that second look in the mirrors, to subconsciously alter their lines to cover you off even if you're not really close enough to attack, keep 'em guessing... It's exactly this which will make other drivers make mistakes under pressure. Just think of Senna and his other worldly aura, the way he would talk about his faith... Other drivers felt that Senna thought himself invulnerable, how could they take the same risks?
Max up the inside was a little bit gamble-ly but legitimate. God only knows what vettel was thinking in trying to swing back for the apex, could have been a lot worse. Kimi should have dooffed max out the race for his swerving round later on, ideal time for the "lesson" given he wasnt exactly in a high points position, kimis lost his nerve a bit. Less whiney more whammy.As others have said, Max won't want to concede anything about his driving in public. It's a significant strength as a driver to have other drivers 'fear' you- to give you that second look in the mirrors, to subconsciously alter their lines to cover you off even if you're not really close enough to attack, keep 'em guessing... It's exactly this which will make other drivers make mistakes under pressure. Just think of Senna and his other worldly aura, the way he would talk about his faith... Other drivers felt that Senna thought himself invulnerable, how could they take the same risks?
Anyone else think alonso got off pretty lightly? Not just unsafe release but not even trying to mitigte it - narrow spa pitlane with lots of bods about, tagged hulk in the pit exit forcing him onto white line and but for hulks corrective could have resulted in a crash on the straight. Real amateur hour stuff I thought.
hairyben said:
Max up the inside was a little bit gamble-ly but legitimate. God only knows what vettel was thinking in trying to swing back for the apex, could have been a lot worse. Kimi should have dooffed max out the race for his swerving round later on, ideal time for the "lesson" given he wasnt exactly in a high points position, kimis lost his nerve a bit. Less whiney more whammy.
Vettel is rattled. His thinking was along the lines of "I've been out qualified by my team mate who is the OAP of formula one for the 3rd race in a row and he has been faster than me all weekend. I am going to get past him now whatever it takes. Quick, chop him off and dictate his line through the corner". He knows Kimi would concede the place if he is aggressive enough, it isn't the first time this season he has been rather rude to his team mate - Australia, China, Germany I think as well. My initial instinct was Max's move was a bit crazy but having watched it back a few times I think Max and Kimi would have negotiated that corner relatively incident free if Vettel hadn't decided to take the apex from a wide entry..... Basically he drove like Kimi and Max didn't exist at all.
The Kemmel straight incidents is where Max was totally out of order in my view, not the start of the race which is much more of a grey area.
Bonefish Blues said:
Agree, yesterday could have been a re-run of this (but faster, I guess, not exactly sure how the speeds compare):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2kNZzqqdhM0
To be fair to the Caterham, that was Webber's error. He simply didn't appreciate how early a Caterham on old tyres would have to brake. There was no hint that the Caterham was going to shove him onto the grass (wall in Valencia). https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2kNZzqqdhM0
Max is fast, but Monaco (twice) and yesterday and others have shown he's not the finished product. Hardly surprising at 18. But look at Montreal, where he was inch-perfect. He can do it when he's not on the back foot.
Jez
VolvoT5 said:
hairyben said:
Max up the inside was a little bit gamble-ly but legitimate. God only knows what vettel was thinking in trying to swing back for the apex, could have been a lot worse. Kimi should have dooffed max out the race for his swerving round later on, ideal time for the "lesson" given he wasnt exactly in a high points position, kimis lost his nerve a bit. Less whiney more whammy.
Vettel is rattled. His thinking was along the lines of "I've been out qualified by my team mate who is the OAP of formula one for the 3rd race in a row and he has been faster than me all weekend. I am going to get past him now whatever it takes. Quick, chop him off and dictate his line through the corner". He knows Kimi would concede the place if he is aggressive enough, it isn't the first time this season he has been rather rude to his team mate - Australia, China, Germany I think as well. My initial instinct was Max's move was a bit crazy but having watched it back a few times I think Max and Kimi would have negotiated that corner relatively incident free if Vettel hadn't decided to take the apex from a wide entry..... Basically he drove like Kimi and Max didn't exist at all.
The Kemmel straight incidents is where Max was totally out of order in my view, not the start of the race which is much more of a grey area.
An old line about not trying to win the race at the first corner seems apt for vettel. He should know better though.
rdjohn said:
The Hulk reckons the red flag cost him a podium yesterday. http://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/hulkenberg-says-...
I suspect that the main beneficiary had the race not been stopped would have been Lewis. The fastest tyre strategy was probably Med, Med, Soft. Having followed Fernando through the field, but able to easy pass, when needed, Lewis almost certainly would have held track position and conserved enough tyre on the first stint to pull a decent gap on the others as they inevitably pitted away from their Softs.
Hulk might be right, although my bet is that he would still have been behind Lewis. He'd have had a better shot at him though. I'm not that Lewis would have done any better - and possibly worse. In the press conference they pointed out that he was 5th when the red flag came out. But I think he was 9th before everyone dived into the pits for new tyres. By staying out, he and Alonso scored big wins, as with the red flag they got their new tyres without penalty. That he couldn't go Med/Med to the end, having started on them compromised him. I think he only had one more new set too, but I stand to be corrected if someone looks it up. I suspect that the main beneficiary had the race not been stopped would have been Lewis. The fastest tyre strategy was probably Med, Med, Soft. Having followed Fernando through the field, but able to easy pass, when needed, Lewis almost certainly would have held track position and conserved enough tyre on the first stint to pull a decent gap on the others as they inevitably pitted away from their Softs.
Jez
cgt2 said:
VolvoT5 said:
You never get the feeling he would produce a miracle drive like Button in Canada or Raikkonen in Japan.
This, or even produce one memorable move that made you say wow. I can't recall a single one. The other top drivers on the grid have given us multiple examples.thainy77 said:
cgt2 said:
VolvoT5 said:
You never get the feeling he would produce a miracle drive like Button in Canada or Raikkonen in Japan.
This, or even produce one memorable move that made you say wow. I can't recall a single one. The other top drivers on the grid have given us multiple examples.ETA: 2007
Gassing Station | Formula 1 | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff