The Official 2016 Belgian Grand Prix Thread **Spoilers**
Discussion
angrymoby said:
DeltonaS said:
Take for instance the number of times Hamilton squeezed other drivers and occasionally even crowded fellow drivers off track (literally in the FIA F1 rule book), but didn't receive a penalty for. .
You don't understand the 'rules' do you?And if you know the rules, which are enforced by race control, why then even complain about Verstappens driving.
According to race control it was within the rules.
Edited by DeltonaS on Thursday 1st September 15:00
DeltonaS said:
Ah, I seem to touched a nerve, are there different rules for Hamilton then ?
And if you know the rules, which are enforced by race control, why then even complain about Verstappens driving.
According to race control it was within the rules.
To try and be a bit neutral here, I think creating a rule would be tricky. The driver in front is only supposed to move once, but there's nothing about when that move should be made. I think it would be very hard to come up with a rule that could determine that unless is was made very vague and left up to the race stewards discretion. Up to now it has been part of the "gentlemens' agreement", but I do wonder if this continues whether they will try and get something in the rule book.And if you know the rules, which are enforced by race control, why then even complain about Verstappens driving.
According to race control it was within the rules.
Edited by DeltonaS on Thursday 1st September 15:00
As for Hamilton, I agree that some of his moves have been very robust, but for me Max is taking it to a whole new level.
As for Cavendish, I'm not really into cycling so am not aware of his history, but the move at the Olympics was at the very least clumsy. I wouldn't have been surprised had he been given a penalty, especially given the outcome for the other competitors.
DeltonaS said:
Take for instance the number of times Hamilton squeezed other drivers and occasionally even crowded fellow drivers off track (literally in the FIA F1 rule book), but didn't receive a penalty for.
What exactly are you thinking of that was against the rules a number of times? At what point was this crowding off the track? I'll assume you mean whilst navigating a corner and he has the inside line as those are the only recent examples I can think of that sound similar. However a rule against this is not "literally in the FIA rule book", the rule about crowding off track is explicitly linked to driving on the straights with drivers allowed to take their racing line through the corners. Maybe I am wrong and you can point me to the rule in the FIA Sporting Regulations?DeltonaS said:
Ah, I seem to touched a nerve, are there different rules for Hamilton then ?
And if you know the rules, which are enforced by race control, why then even complain about Verstappens driving.
According to race control it was within the rules.
go on, explain how YOU think the 'crowding' rule works at a corner exit when you're on the outsideAnd if you know the rules, which are enforced by race control, why then even complain about Verstappens driving.
According to race control it was within the rules.
Edited by DeltonaS on Thursday 1st September 15:00
M3ax said:
Smollet said:
It started with Senna and his very dubious driving tactics. Schumacher just followed his example. If Senna had been penalised and banned then I doubt very much we would have seen what quite frankly is downright dangerous driving that has been copied by so called wunderkind with copious amounts of talent who don't need to resort to such antics. The sooner it's stamped on the better for everyone's sake. Personally I don't care if Verstappen ever graces an F1 car ever again if that what it takes to get the message across. He's a f
king menace.
Harsh. But I agree.king menace.I have enjoyed watching max up to last weekend. Even the Monaco crash seemed to be over ambitious rather than bad driving, but spa was a step too far.
Don't want to clip the wings of an exciting driver but he is becoming (!) dangerous.
VladD said:
To try and be a bit neutral here, I think creating a rule would be tricky. The driver in front is only supposed to move once, but there's nothing about when that move should be made. I think it would be very hard to come up with a rule that could determine that unless is was made very vague and left up to the race stewards discretion. Up to now it has been part of the "gentlemens' agreement", but I do wonder if this continues whether they will try and get something in the rule book.
Indycar has a rule on blocking. 9.3.2 Blocking – A Driver must not alter his/her racing line to pursuing DriversYou have to get to the side of the track you want to be early enough that the car behind doesn't have to change its line. In broad terms it's interpreted as:
“Blocking is using your mirrors and moving your car in reaction to the car behind. Defending is taking a proactive move and defending the inside line or defending whichever line you want to defend."
It's not perfect, but it's much more critical that it's enforced on ovals and street courses where contact can be serious. Max "defended" on lap 10 (the first time that Kimi went around the outside and then Max outbraked him (and himself) into Les Combes). Max "blocked" on lap 11. Max knows the difference and as the F1 rules don't quite work at the moment, perhaps we should have an update.
Nico blocked at Barcelona too, btw. Although interestingly, that one is more arguable as he might have done that even if he hadn't looked in the mirrors. Maybe that's the solution - get rid of mirrors (this isn't really serious!).
Jez
Z3MCJez said:
VladD said:
To try and be a bit neutral here, I think creating a rule would be tricky. The driver in front is only supposed to move once, but there's nothing about when that move should be made. I think it would be very hard to come up with a rule that could determine that unless is was made very vague and left up to the race stewards discretion. Up to now it has been part of the "gentlemens' agreement", but I do wonder if this continues whether they will try and get something in the rule book.
Indycar has a rule on blocking. 9.3.2 Blocking – A Driver must not alter his/her racing line to pursuing DriversYou have to get to the side of the track you want to be early enough that the car behind doesn't have to change its line. In broad terms it's interpreted as:
“Blocking is using your mirrors and moving your car in reaction to the car behind. Defending is taking a proactive move and defending the inside line or defending whichever line you want to defend."
It's not perfect, but it's much more critical that it's enforced on ovals and street courses where contact can be serious. Max "defended" on lap 10 (the first time that Kimi went around the outside and then Max outbraked him (and himself) into Les Combes). Max "blocked" on lap 11. Max knows the difference and as the F1 rules don't quite work at the moment, perhaps we should have an update.
Nico blocked at Barcelona too, btw. Although interestingly, that one is more arguable as he might have done that even if he hadn't looked in the mirrors. Maybe that's the solution - get rid of mirrors (this isn't really serious!).
Jez
Jabbah said:
DeltonaS said:
Take for instance the number of times Hamilton squeezed other drivers and occasionally even crowded fellow drivers off track (literally in the FIA F1 rule book), but didn't receive a penalty for.
What exactly are you thinking of that was against the rules a number of times? At what point was this crowding off the track? I'll assume you mean whilst navigating a corner and he has the inside line as those are the only recent examples I can think of that sound similar. However a rule against this is not "literally in the FIA rule book", the rule about crowding off track is explicitly linked to driving on the straights with drivers allowed to take their racing line through the corners. Maybe I am wrong and you can point me to the rule in the FIA Sporting Regulations?Leroy902 said:
Jabbah said:
DeltonaS said:
Take for instance the number of times Hamilton squeezed other drivers and occasionally even crowded fellow drivers off track (literally in the FIA F1 rule book), but didn't receive a penalty for.
What exactly are you thinking of that was against the rules a number of times? At what point was this crowding off the track? I'll assume you mean whilst navigating a corner and he has the inside line as those are the only recent examples I can think of that sound similar. However a rule against this is not "literally in the FIA rule book", the rule about crowding off track is explicitly linked to driving on the straights with drivers allowed to take their racing line through the corners. Maybe I am wrong and you can point me to the rule in the FIA Sporting Regulations?zebra said:
Leroy902 said:
Jabbah said:
DeltonaS said:
Take for instance the number of times Hamilton squeezed other drivers and occasionally even crowded fellow drivers off track (literally in the FIA F1 rule book), but didn't receive a penalty for.
What exactly are you thinking of that was against the rules a number of times? At what point was this crowding off the track? I'll assume you mean whilst navigating a corner and he has the inside line as those are the only recent examples I can think of that sound similar. However a rule against this is not "literally in the FIA rule book", the rule about crowding off track is explicitly linked to driving on the straights with drivers allowed to take their racing line through the corners. Maybe I am wrong and you can point me to the rule in the FIA Sporting Regulations?And on the issue of Max, We all want to see an exciting young driver (wherever he's from), he could be a hero in the sport for years, but he has to learn not to cross the line into stupidity. The key point is he needs the coaching from his mentors or discipline form officials - either should work as long as he's mature enough to accept it.
Flooble said:
I agree, just because Pistonheads is a UK website provided by a UK publishing firm and thus has a natural bias towards UK drivers/cars/whatever, we shouldn't discourage other viewpoints, or we will become too parochial. It's good to see from the outside.
I'm all for varied view points and wide ranging discussions. Just sick of trolls or with F1 threads, unrational hate that clouds judgement.Hungrymc said:
I don't agree. I'd like to see DeltonaS give the examples (I don't believe he'll have much joy, but am happy to discuss)
And on the issue of Max, We all want to see an exciting young driver (wherever he's from), he could be a hero in the sport for years, but he has to learn not to cross the line into stupidity. The key point is he needs the coaching from his mentors or discipline form officials - either should work as long as he's mature enough to accept it.
He was in meltdown with the GB cycling success in Rio if its GB it must be either a cheat or corrupt according to his views.And on the issue of Max, We all want to see an exciting young driver (wherever he's from), he could be a hero in the sport for years, but he has to learn not to cross the line into stupidity. The key point is he needs the coaching from his mentors or discipline form officials - either should work as long as he's mature enough to accept it.
zebra said:
Leroy902 said:
Jabbah said:
DeltonaS said:
Take for instance the number of times Hamilton squeezed other drivers and occasionally even crowded fellow drivers off track (literally in the FIA F1 rule book), but didn't receive a penalty for.
What exactly are you thinking of that was against the rules a number of times? At what point was this crowding off the track? I'll assume you mean whilst navigating a corner and he has the inside line as those are the only recent examples I can think of that sound similar. However a rule against this is not "literally in the FIA rule book", the rule about crowding off track is explicitly linked to driving on the straights with drivers allowed to take their racing line through the corners. Maybe I am wrong and you can point me to the rule in the FIA Sporting Regulations?Hungrymc said:
zebra said:
Leroy902 said:
Jabbah said:
DeltonaS said:
Take for instance the number of times Hamilton squeezed other drivers and occasionally even crowded fellow drivers off track (literally in the FIA F1 rule book), but didn't receive a penalty for.
What exactly are you thinking of that was against the rules a number of times? At what point was this crowding off the track? I'll assume you mean whilst navigating a corner and he has the inside line as those are the only recent examples I can think of that sound similar. However a rule against this is not "literally in the FIA rule book", the rule about crowding off track is explicitly linked to driving on the straights with drivers allowed to take their racing line through the corners. Maybe I am wrong and you can point me to the rule in the FIA Sporting Regulations?And on the issue of Max, We all want to see an exciting young driver (wherever he's from), he could be a hero in the sport for years, but he has to learn not to cross the line into stupidity. The key point is he needs the coaching from his mentors or discipline form officials - either should work as long as he's mature enough to accept it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K1WuWu8kGak
DeltonaS said:
Who the hell are you to think he needs coaching. Did Schumi need coaching from you ?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K1WuWu8kGak
Sidestep the first point by all means. but that doesn't really help make your post look any more credible.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K1WuWu8kGak
And really.... You don't think an 18 year old needs coaching (particularly when a potentially critical flaw is emerging). I don't think anyone is perfect and certainly not at such a young age. If he has any sense he should be seeking out help and advise from those who can help him (I don't mean you or I by the way).
Incredible that you see the suggestion of him needing the right coaching as something negative (they all do, and the younger they are the more important it is) ... Very odd.
Hungrymc said:
DeltonaS said:
Who the hell are you to think he needs coaching. Did Schumi need coaching from you ?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K1WuWu8kGak
Sidestep the first point by all means. but that doesn't really help make your post look any more credible.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K1WuWu8kGak
And really.... You don't think an 18 year old needs coaching (particularly when a potentially critical flaw is emerging). I don't think anyone is perfect and certainly not at such a young age. If he has any sense he should be seeking out help and advise from those who can help him (I don't mean you or I by the way).
Incredible that you see the suggestion of him needing the right coaching as something negative (they all do, and the younger they are the more important it is) ... Very odd.
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