Need advice re: course of action after buying a bent car

Need advice re: course of action after buying a bent car

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TroubledSoul

Original Poster:

4,589 posts

193 months

Wednesday 24th August 2016
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Yep, now it's me who's idiot of the week in SP&L. rolleyes

About 6 weeks ago I bought a car. A high performance car with no history. Stay with me..... Said car was cheap because of the lack of history not because of anything else. I've owned numerous models of this brand so I do know the cars fairly well from an enthusiast point of view and would have hoped to have avoided buying such a lemon but I've failed this time.

The seller is a breaker/mechanic with a garage (where I bought it from) and he told me the car was too good to break so he was offering it up for sale. He also said that the gearbox was fully working......

Fast forward to today. A couple of people in my local club had looked at the car and said it was accident damaged. Having done one of those My Car Check things before buying I know that it hasn't been recorded. Upset but putting it down to experience at the time, I forged on. I bought some coilovers for the car (it has been bought with the intention of tracking it mainly) and when I collected it I was told the chassis was bent. One of the front shocks had to have the camber on it set differently to the other to achieve the correct alignment both sides.

I'm not very happy about it, but it gets better (worse). The gearbox, which was described as fully working in the ad, likes to crunch at high revs from 4th to 5th. I decided to change the oil and found there wasn't much in it. Felt much better once refilled with decent Motul fluid but the crunch was still somewhat there. Then I discovered that the oil was low before because the gearbox leaks and needs a replacement oil seal.

Thinking "great, something else to sort" my Mrs took the car on an instruction day at the local hillclimb school. It was her first time but the day was basically spoiled by the fact that most of the gears actually crunch at very high revs. Awesome. So the 'box needs the synchros doing.

I was still at this point trying to take it on the chin, accept I made a mistake and needed to just do my best to rectify it bit by bit.

But then the door started sticking. WTF?! A bit of investigation revealed the side skirt was catching it. This led to me discovering a dent in the sill and the weather seal strip on the top of the skirt seeming glued badly in place.

Tonight I've taken the skirt off and found a large dent in it. I've found oodles of silicone in there, evidently used to stick the skirt in place as the dent means a few of the clips won't clip in and now the skirt has lifted away from the sill and is catching on the door.

I think I'm done. It's broken me. So I need to figure out my options. As I see it there are 2:

1. Ask for a full refund. Remove my new parts and our plate and take it back.

2. Ask for a partial refund, keep the car and look at either reshelling it or having it jigged.

If he won't play ball, I suppose I need to think about court. I paid £6500 for the car. A decent example would have been around £8500.

My fear is that I will be told to go whistle. But buying from a trader, I feel that he must have known it was accident damaged and he should have disclosed this. The statement about the gearbox being fully working is blatantly false and the dented sill and chassis being bent are just unacceptable.

Here's the rap sheet:
Crankshaft pulley wobbling - Bought a set of uprated pulleys and replaced
Rear shocks knocking and this was described in the ad so not an issue but replaced all four with coilovers
Steering a bit wolley - fitted uprated balljoints and track rod ends plus steering rack bushes
Radiator top hose had a gouge in the back of it from the accident pushing it into the pulley behind - replaced
Paint cracking and now lifting off the front bumper due to poor respray - needs respray
Front end is slightly pushed back - needs properly straigthening
Chassis is twisted, car needs different alignment both sides to match up - again, needs properly straightening
Gearbox crunches at high revs in multiple gears - needs new synchros at least
Gearbox has oil leak - needs new seal
Sill is badly dented
Sideskirt has become damaged due to poor quality repair job leaving it catching door
Handbrake was almost non existent, tightening it revealed it was knackered and I had to fix that
Bonnet scoop (dead giveaway now biggrin) was almost flying off on the motorway and I discovered half the fixings were missing. Sorted.
Knackered engine mount - replaced
Bolt missing from cambelt cover
Found passenger side rear hub nut coming loose! - Tightened back up

Apologies for the really long read. I'm bloody heartbroken about all this and just regret the whole affair. The long and short of it is; most of the issues I can take on the chin. I bought it with no history and I knew it was a bit tatty so I'm prepared to take a lot of that on the chin. It's to be expected that lots of work would be needed. But the gearbox not being what I was told it was and the chassis being accident damaged and bent are the two main points I wish to pursue. The engine is actually forged (and it's quite obvious) and that's it's one shining light. I'd be prepared to take a full refund or partial and reshell it, but I don't know what amount to ask for if partial.

I'll speak to CAB as soon as I can but for now, let me know what you think. Many thanks to all who have stuck it out and read this!

anonymous-user

53 months

Wednesday 24th August 2016
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I'm going to be quite useless and not be able to offer any help, however, in intrigued! What car is it?

On your problem, sounds like it could get messy, as you knew it was cheap due to issues. Lots of grey for the seller to hide behind.

Dan_M5

615 posts

142 months

Wednesday 24th August 2016
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You've messed with it. Any issues should of been bought up with the dealer straight away.

TroubledSoul

Original Poster:

4,589 posts

193 months

Wednesday 24th August 2016
quotequote all
Dan_M5 said:
You've messed with it. Any issues should of been bought up with the dealer straight away.
I'm sorry but the chassis being bent has nothing to do with "messing" with it and would not have been obvious had it not had to go in for alignment. The gearbox also didn't become apparent until we started to push the car a bit more, hence not noticing it on the test drive.

It's a Subaru. Might as well be open about it. The guy wasn't a dealer as such, just a breaker that sells some of the cars. No forecourt full of cars to speak of but definitely a trader operating out of a garage and yard.

The crux of it for me is that I've only discovered the gearbox issue and the chassis issue recently, i.e. the last week or so (sill damage tonight). Upon discovering these issues I have actually spoken to him and asked him if he knew about them, to which he has denied any knowledge. I'm doing something about it as quickly as possible.

Dan_M5

615 posts

142 months

Wednesday 24th August 2016
quotequote all
You have to prove he knew about it that's the issue. You'll have to prove he is a trader too. What was the v5 in a persons name or trader? Receipt from a business or person.

It all comes down to you proving it and you buying it for a knocked down price will also come to bite you in the ass.

TroubledSoul

Original Poster:

4,589 posts

193 months

Wednesday 24th August 2016
quotequote all
He's an established garage and I went to the garage to buy it. I have copies of the ad. Says something along the lines of bought it to break but decided to offer it up for sale as is. There's absolutely no disputing that he's a breaker/trader.

Also I was under the impression that the SOGA puts the onus on him to prove the faults weren't present rather than vice versa, unless something's changed?

It was made clear the price was due to the lack of history and nothing else. That's got to be in my favour?

TooMany2cvs

29,008 posts

125 months

Wednesday 24th August 2016
quotequote all
TroubledSoul said:
He also said that the gearbox was fully working......
Are they notorious for failing, or was that just some totally out-of-the-blue random guilty conscience trying to squeek an alarm bell out?

You've said it was very cheap - 3/4 of the price of normal. So there's immediately an expectation that it's going to be below par - confirmed by the fact that you knew there were problems with it when you bought it. You HPI checked it, and it's not recorded as a write-off.

You're saying the box is crunchy - but you're also saying that it's been run low on oil and in motorsport while you've had it. You've also been in there with the spanners. And, frankly, half of your list is really, really nitpicky - missing bolt on the cambelt covers...?

I think it's one to take on the chin, unless he's going to go above and beyond the call of duty through genuinely not knowing.

Dan_M5

615 posts

142 months

Wednesday 24th August 2016
quotequote all
Only if you can prove its a dealer. If he managed to wangle it as a private sale there isn't a soga.

TooMany2cvs

29,008 posts

125 months

Wednesday 24th August 2016
quotequote all
TroubledSoul said:
Also I was under the impression that the SOGA puts the onus on him to prove the faults weren't present rather than vice versa, unless something's changed?
Only that SOGA was replaced by the Consumer Rights Act 2015 for all contracts after October last year.

But the basis is the same - and the important bit is that, for used goods, the expectations are tempered by age, apparent condition, price. You knew you were buying a shabby, scruffy 25%-cheaper-than-expected car with known problems...

Vaud

50,289 posts

154 months

Wednesday 24th August 2016
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Dan_M5 said:
Only if you can prove its a dealer. If he managed to wangle it as a private sale there isn't a soga.
A county court is unlikely to see it that way, if it got that far. A private individual buying from someone advertising as a trade seller, from a trade location - will see the balance of probabilities towards the buyer.

Looks like a duck, etc.

halo34

2,429 posts

198 months

Wednesday 24th August 2016
quotequote all
Read up on the new law, not from supposed experts from here and then proceed.

Few posters have given up trying to tell people it can help - email me offline if you want more info as this will degenerate on thread into definitions blah blah

TroubledSoul

Original Poster:

4,589 posts

193 months

Wednesday 24th August 2016
quotequote all
TooMany2cvs said:
Are they notorious for failing, or was that just some totally out-of-the-blue random guilty conscience trying to squeek an alarm bell out?

You've said it was very cheap - 3/4 of the price of normal. So there's immediately an expectation that it's going to be below par - confirmed by the fact that you knew there were problems with it when you bought it. You HPI checked it, and it's not recorded as a write-off.

You're saying the box is crunchy - but you're also saying that it's been run low on oil and in motorsport while you've had it. You've also been in there with the spanners. And, frankly, half of your list is really, really nitpicky - missing bolt on the cambelt covers...?

I think it's one to take on the chin, unless he's going to go above and beyond the call of duty through genuinely not knowing.
No the six speed is known as being very strong. It's not even done 1k with us and it has been on a driving school day, not used in any competition. That's a number of short runs up the hillclimb course while trying to learn the lines etc. but I do appreciate that may complicate the situation. The wife did her driving school day in it the day after the 'box was filled so it hasn't done that low on fluid. I'd noticed the leak and we dipped it and checked it before she used it. All was good and still is but it is clearly leaking so needs fixing.

I didn't know it had problems at the point of buying, I just said that I expected there would probably be lots of niggly bits as with any old used car. Those things, which make up most of my list, are fine. To be expected. The accident damage, bent chassis and gearbox are not fine.

I suppose the question is:
Is it OK for a trader to sell a damaged, twisted car and misrepresent the gearbox condition? If it is then fair play but I suspect it is not.

I had the shocks fitted by a well respected specialist who then told me about the car being bent. It's been eating at me for the last week now. I don't want the hassle of a reshell and a gearbox rebuild really, but it looks like I'll be having to do that either way, with or without any sort of refund!

TroubledSoul

Original Poster:

4,589 posts

193 months

Wednesday 24th August 2016
quotequote all
TooMany2cvs said:
Only that SOGA was replaced by the Consumer Rights Act 2015 for all contracts after October last year.

But the basis is the same - and the important bit is that, for used goods, the expectations are tempered by age, apparent condition, price. You knew you were buying a shabby, scruffy 25%-cheaper-than-expected car with known problems...
What are these known problems? Knocking shocks (common fault on these) and no history is all I've got?

TroubledSoul

Original Poster:

4,589 posts

193 months

Wednesday 24th August 2016
quotequote all
I think me listing absolutely everything has clouded things somewhat and made me look like a whinger laugh

That wasn't what I was trying to achieve. Moreover, I just wanted to show that after finding issue after issue I am prepared to accept almost all of that stuff as just normal used car stuff. It's only the gearbox, dented sill and bent chassis that have genuinely upset me and ruined the car for me.

TooMany2cvs

29,008 posts

125 months

Wednesday 24th August 2016
quotequote all
TroubledSoul said:
TooMany2cvs said:
Only that SOGA was replaced by the Consumer Rights Act 2015 for all contracts after October last year.

But the basis is the same - and the important bit is that, for used goods, the expectations are tempered by age, apparent condition, price. You knew you were buying a shabby, scruffy 25%-cheaper-than-expected car with known problems...
What are these known problems? Knocking shocks (common fault on these) and no history is all I've got?
The handbrake, engine mount and steering bushes would have been fairly apparent on a test drive, as may the scoop have been, while the cracked paint on the front spoiler should have been fairly visible.

TroubledSoul

Original Poster:

4,589 posts

193 months

Wednesday 24th August 2016
quotequote all
TooMany2cvs said:
The handbrake, engine mount and steering bushes would have been fairly apparent on a test drive, as may the scoop have been, while the cracked paint on the front spoiler should have been fairly visible.
Handbrake was slack. Seemed like it needed tightening up which wouldn't have been a big deal. It was only after my specialist did that that we discovered it would seize on if it wasn't totally slackened off. Steering bushes? They were replaced as a matter of course so no known issue there. Scoop I didn't notice, it's a very obscure thing and we only realised it was flapping about more than is normal after a few motorway runs. Cracked paint on the front bumper wasn't cracked! What's happened is the paint has started to lift and crack. Won't hold that against the seller so much as he wouldn't have known about that.

Feels like you're picking at me for the sake of it a little bit.

RWD cossie wil

4,295 posts

172 months

Thursday 25th August 2016
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Why do people buy a car, then inspect it & test drive it?

V8LM

5,166 posts

208 months

Thursday 25th August 2016
quotequote all
TooMany2cvs said:
Only that SOGA was replaced by the Consumer Rights Act 2015 for all contracts after October last year.

But the basis is the same - and the important bit is that, for used goods, the expectations are tempered by age, apparent condition, price. You knew you were buying a shabby, scruffy 25%-cheaper-than-expected car with known problems...
This. Unless you can demonstrate the dealer lied and therefore misrepresented the car then you will have huge difficulty in getting redress on a car that you were told was initially going to be broken and paid 75% of the going rate got it.

The specific answers to the questions you asked when buying are important.

anonymous-user

53 months

Thursday 25th August 2016
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Just what sort of 'Japanese performance cars' do you imagine a 'breaker' would be selling?

POORCARDEALER

8,523 posts

240 months

Thursday 25th August 2016
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Think its a difficult one....dealer bought it to break and told you so, it was cheaper due to lack of history and premusably due to the fact it was bordering on been a breaker and you bought it..if you went down the small claims route you might win, but you might not, it takes time and a bit of money to get to hearing date, with the chance you wont win.

Car sounds like an ideal auction candidate, clean it up, make it shiny and see how you go...the lack of history wont be mentioned, you might get your money back or make a few bob.