Marriage Breakdown

[LikesBikes]

First and foremost, I'm writing this out for my own benefit more than anything. I'm not entirely sure what I'm asking, but any and all opinions are welcome and appreciated.

Over the last few months my wife has become Increasingly cold. I work away Monday to Friday almost all of the time and I noticed more and more that I didn't feel all that welcome on Friday night when I got back. Things weren't all bad, when it was good it was great, however we seemed to have got into a rut - She would be more interested in Corrie and Eastenders, while I'd probably be on my phone browsing here or the Internet in general. Sex was always still good when it happened, albeit less frequently. I'm aware that I buried my head in the sand hoping things would get better, I admit this and I'm fully aware this was a stupid thing to do. It turns out that this was the biggest mistake of my life as you'll discover.

A bit of history is her older son, he was always a bit of a "naughty, cheeky chappy" if you know what I mean. Always getting into light bother. This worsened as he got older, getting into drugs. Stuff was stolen from the house until it got to a point where she threw him out. Later he went on to barge into the house while I wasn't there, grab my infant son from his mother and threatened to take him away and burn our house down. At this point she disowned him. He went on to later hang himself. Needless to say this was upsetting news and my wife put her memories of the bad times to bed and mourned the child she had lost as any mother would. I had no issue with her decision on this. However I had to explain to her that I couldn't forget the threats and grabbing of my baby son and that while I would be there to support her I felt it would be hypocritical to express any grief. A position she understood and accepted.

Fast forward to nearer the present and things are frosty. She'd arranged a visit to relations for a week while I was still at work, no problem until I found out the timing. She works as a retail manager so pretty much every Saturday. She decides to go on the Sunday morning, the first full day we'd have off together. She also planned to return the following Sunday evening, by which time I'd be getting stuff ready for an early start on Monday and thinking about turning in for the night. I was quite put out by this as I couldn't see why she couldn't go on the Monday but let it slide and planned a special night out on the Saturday night before she went. We almost always went out on Saturday nights but I planned a posh meal rather than the more usual pub dinner as a surprise. She came in as normal, we had a cup of tea together as normal and she disappeared upstairs, I presumed for her bath as normal. Turns out not, I asked if we were going out and she said no, she had to get her stuff packed. I said it could wait til the morning but no, it had to be done then and would take too long to make our night out worthwhile. This upset me as I felt I was being deliberately frozen out and while I said nothing specifically about it I made my displeasure obvious. She returned the following weekend as planned and we both tentatively tiptoed round and things were reasonably ok. I was working locally that week and midweek we had sex which went well as it always did. Then the coldness started to creep back, by the Sunday night (Sunday just gone) I could take no more and asked what was up. We sat up all night, a lot of point scoring regarding trivial crap like my disinterest in gardening and DIY and the way I always needed prompting for those chores amongst other things. My opinion towards the recent week away was also cited and that I was never supportive enough over the death of the aforementioned step son. I tried to reason that we could fix these things but in the end had to drag the opinion out of her that she didn't want to try. I finished this discussion (wouldn't call it a row) thinking she was thinking it all over and I was reasonably confident that she'd see sense then left for work, reeling from it a little and yes, I'm aware this was another mistake. During Monday I'd received a text that she was planning to take the kids to her mums until she found somewhere to live. I arranged with my employer to get home, she had already gone.

Spoke to her on the phone that night and it was colder than ever. I had my ten year old son on the Tuesday, she arranged for her mother to drop him off. He was upset and had an idea what was going on. I texted her to say we had to tell him that night, a horrible experience I wouldn't wish on anyone. We said we didn't know if it was forever, a week or what and he kind of understood although was really upset. Once he recovered we left him in front of the TV while we retired to the garden to talk. The conversation was warm and as positive as you could expect but she needed to sit back and take stock. I put forward a few suggestions as to how we set about fixing this. I explained my feelings on the recent week away and asked if that was the tipping point. She said it probably was and in the end she left with our son leaving things reasonably amicably.

This morning I texted asking for half hour of her time (she was off today) to go through an idea I'd had to demonstrate how willing I was to change my attitudes to certain things, particularly the late step son. I figured it was high time I put my issues on the subject away, to make extra effort to help her get through his birthday (next month) which always challenges her. Back to cold again. She needs space and would talk to me on Sunday, I was having the boy for the weekend and we'd discuss things when I took him back. I asked her not to make any decisions before we'd talked, she replied much later that she'd been down to see the housing people. I'm worried the 'giving her space' will be ongoing and is designed just to keep me away to allow her time to make her escape plan and set it in motion. I've always thought that needing space was largely a television cliché.

Anyway I've been in a right state, very little sleep since Sunday and can't see anything to hang on to. I don't want to split up with my wife, I want to put things right. This chopping and changing between hot and cold is leading me to despair. I chatted with the male of a couple we know who said his wife had noticed the wife's facebook posts had been deleted back to 2012. I'm starting to wonder if this is related, as I was already convinced the reasons I've been given are just smoke and the core issue is yet to come to light. she's 48 and I guess could be coming up against 'the change'. This couple I spoke to couldn't believe it as we were always seen to be so happy and good together

As said I don't really know what I'm asking here, I want everything back as it was 6 months ago when we had a brilliant life together. The deterioration has been steady but the sex in the middle of last week suggests that everything was all right then so the end came very suddenly. I guess I just want thoughts as to what I can do to get through this, whichever way it goes in the end. I'd prefer to not get the traditional snakes-with-tits replies for now, as I still love and miss her enormously. Similarly advice re any potential divorce proceedings, I appreciate that people may be trying to help but I want to concentrate on the here and now, plenty of time for that if it comes to it.

I've probably written this very badly, I'm sat up in bed suffering with a lack of sleep. Apologies for that and if anything requires clarification feel free to ask and I'll do my best. Thanks for reading.

[TotalControl]

You're right to feel the way you do but maybe she's already made this decision quite a while back? How old was your step son out of curiosity? Did she do the same when he passed?

You can't force her to think the way you want and return back to normal so giving her time is probably the only way to see if she still wants you?

Bad times and thoughts with you. Hope things work out for the best.

[stuttgartmetal]

Register and post on www.wikivorce.com
All the advice you need is there
They helped me enormously when I went through a marriage break up.
Don't look for advice here, it's a big pub full of drunken bs, with some interspersed good advice, but won't help you.

One thing mate.
The best advice I had
Don't go out out getting drunk, doing drugs or birding it
Tell your boss what your going through and tell him it's all in confidence
Don't lose your job, otherwise you'll end up in a shop doorway
Use your best friend, unburden yourself
Post on wikivorce
Get a hold of your finances, it's going to cost you
She'll Nick all the money and run up grands on credit
You won't believe how poisonous she'll get
Don't lose your kids
Don't be surprised if she comes back, that's to get you out of the house

It all takes time, and times the only way it'll get better
I did it
It was the worst experience of my life
I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy
I still think about it everyday, six years later

Be strong.
Eat, and do some exercise, the stress hormones burn all the weight off you
The best diet in the world

You'll get through it
It just takes time

Wikivorce.com
Go there

Edited by stuttgartmetal on Thursday 25th August 04:23

[haggishunter]

stuttgartmetal said:

Register and post on www.wikivorce.com
All the advice you need is there
They helped me enormously when I went through a marriage break up.
Don't look for advice here, it's a big pub full of drunken bs, with some interspersed good advice, but won't help you.

One thing mate.
The best advice I had
Don't go out out getting drunk, doing drugs or birding it
Tell your boss what your going through and tell him it's all in confidence
Don't lose your job, otherwise you'll end up in a shop doorway
Use your best friend, unburden yourself
Post on wikivorce
Get a hold of your finances, it's going to cost you
She'll Nick all the money and run up grands on credit
You won't believe how poisonous she'll get
Don't lose your kids
Don't be surprised if she comes back, that's to get you out of the house

It all takes time, and times the only way it'll get better
I did it
It was the worst experience of my life
I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy
I still think about it everyday, six years later

Be strong.
Eat, and do some exercise, the stress hormones burn all the weight off you
The best diet in the world

You'll get through it
It just takes time

Wikivorce.com
Go there

Edited by stuttgartmetal on Thursday 25th August 04:23

This is sound advice, read it and take note.

[anonymous-user]

My marriage broke down 3 years ago and I agree with everything stuttgartmetal said. She has already mentally left the marriage and her saying she needs space is her way of saying you are done. Do not be surprised if there is a new guy on the scene very soon, my guess is there is already someone else in the background. The fact that she is spending so much time at her parents makes me think it is someone from that area, and I would bet it is someone she went to school with and has reconnected with on Facebook. Deleting all her Facebook history could be her trying to cover this up but I promise it will be the most obvious person you can think of.

Don't blame yourself, there is nothing you could have done to stop this happening. She will try and turn this around so everyone thinks it is your fault.

So short term you need to look after yourself, make sure you are eating and sleeping properly. If you are anything like me you are currently in full flight or fight mode and unable to do either. Don't be afraid to take a sleeping pill if you need it, being awake at 3am with all this going through your head is not going to help. Eat anything you like, I couldn't face proper food for weeks so I ended up living on a diet of chocolate bars as that was all I could swallow.

It is going to take at least 18 months before you start to feel normal again, but trust me you will get there in the end, as stuttgartmetal said it just takes time.

It was also the worst experience of my life and I would not wish it on anyone.

[happychap]

From your post, I would suggest that you and your wife would benefit from couple counselling to help you both determine what the issues are, and if you are both prepared to make the changes to salvage your marriage.

[Tuvra]

Joey Deacon said:

My marriage broke down 3 years ago and I agree with everything stuttgartmetal said. She has already mentally left the marriage and her saying she needs space is her way of saying you are done. Do not be surprised if there is a new guy on the scene very soon, my guess is there is already someone else in the background. The fact that she is spending so much time at her parents makes me think it is someone from that area, and I would bet it is someone she went to school with and has reconnected with on Facebook. Deleting all her Facebook history could be her trying to cover this up but I promise it will be the most obvious person you can think of.

I went through a split around 18m ago, still not over it actually and I'd agree with this.

The next bloke she went with was her brothers old friend, he always used to like her stuff on Facebook but as he was such an ugly fker and about 10 years older I never even thought he was a threat. Towards the end she got colder and colder and I suspect that she was confiding in him via Facebook messenger.

I'm shagging a married woman now, separated for about 18m as well but he thinks hes still got a chance, its an absolute piece of piss to hide everything from him and doing so highlights how easy it would have been for her to do it. I even use Facebook messenger over Whatsapp so other "friends" don't see that I have been online etc.

My advice:-

• Don't put your heart on your sleeve, suck it up, keep your dignity and put on a brave face, if you put it on your sleeve she will throw it on the floor and stamp all over it, its very difficult to put right after this. Same as you, I didn't think my ex was like that, but when they are emotionally "done" they become heartless very quickly.

• Try to communicate via text, its easier to record and assess. It also gives you more time to construct appropriate responses. Don't flood her with messages and do not stress if there are long delays in responses - its part of the game, it doesn't mean shes being rogered.

• When responding to her, imagine the messages are being seen by everyone, your friends, her friends, both your families etc. By doing this you will ensure that you don't sound like a soppy tt, you don't sound pathetic and on the other hand you won't sound too harsh/bhy when the mood turns etc.

• Do not NOT drink, obviously don't binge drink but meet up with friends, get out and enjoy yourself at least once a week.

• Sign up to Tinder/POF and start to flirt a little bit. It will distract you and help on the lonely nights, it will help even if you aren't ready for it or you have no intention of meeting. Trust me, it will ease you off her and get you back at ease with women which will help further down the line. If you don't deal with rejection, leave them come to you!

• If you meet someone don't tell the ex. When she finds out, she will go mental and possibly even throw herself at you. Resist this at all costs!! Revert back to the point above about how you potray yourself.

Lastly, confide in those close to you, getting it off your chest really helps. There's nothing wrong with ringing your mate and saying "Hi mate, fancy a few beers, I'm going through a really stty time right now and I could do with a chat". In these chats be brutally honest.

Lastly, keep your chin up, its always darkest before the dawn

[andy-xr]

I think you need to decide whether it's important for you. Sounds like you're away a lot and if you're not physically there, you might only be in the relationship when it suits. Maybe she needs more

It sounds though you put a lot of the problems onto her and dont take that much responsibility yourself. You're never really there from the sounds of it anyway, both physically and emotionally, and you dont share things with her, such as how to deal with her son. That's basically you saying 'this is your problem, deal with it'

So she has.
I dont know what else really you want from that

I'm sure there's a lot of other stuff that you have done, and telling everyone about it wont really change a lot, because it's already happened.

I think if you want this to work, the job sounds like it's getting in the way a bit, and you're getting in the way with how you're prejudicing things to basically drive a wedge between you. While I'm sure she's no angel, it needs willing and a large amount of compromise. Be there more

[happychap]

Tuvra said:

I went through a split around 18m ago, still not over it actually and I'd agree with this.

The next bloke she went with was her brothers old friend, he always used to like her stuff on Facebook but as he was such an ugly fker and about 10 years older I never even thought he was a threat. Towards the end she got colder and colder and I suspect that she was confiding in him via Facebook messenger.

I'm shagging a married woman now, separated for about 18m as well but he thinks hes still got a chance, its an absolute piece of piss to hide everything from him and doing so highlights how easy it would have been for her to do it. I even use Facebook messenger over Whatsapp so other "friends" don't see that I have been online etc.

My advice:-

• Don't put your heart on your sleeve, suck it up, keep your dignity and put on a brave face, if you put it on your sleeve she will throw it on the floor and stamp all over it, its very difficult to put right after this. Same as you, I didn't think my ex was like that, but when they are emotionally "done" they become heartless very quickly.

• Try to communicate via text, its easier to record and assess. It also gives you more time to construct appropriate responses. Don't flood her with messages and do not stress if there are long delays in responses - its part of the game, it doesn't mean shes being rogered.

• When responding to her, imagine the messages are being seen by everyone, your friends, her friends, both your families etc. By doing this you will ensure that you don't sound like a soppy tt, you don't sound pathetic and on the other hand you won't sound too harsh/bhy when the mood turns etc.

• Do not NOT drink, obviously don't binge drink but meet up with friends, get out and enjoy yourself at least once a week.

• Sign up to Tinder/POF and start to flirt a little bit. It will distract you and help on the lonely nights, it will help even if you aren't ready for it or you have no intention of meeting. Trust me, it will ease you off her and get you back at ease with women which will help further down the line. If you don't deal with rejection, leave them come to you!

• If you meet someone don't tell the ex. When she finds out, she will go mental and possibly even throw herself at you. Resist this at all costs!! Revert back to the point above about how you potray yourself.

Lastly, confide in those close to you, getting it off your chest really helps. There's nothing wrong with ringing your mate and saying "Hi mate, fancy a few beers, I'm going through a really stty time right now and I could do with a chat". In these chats be brutally honest.

Lastly, keep your chin up, its always darkest before the dawn

The majority of this advice OP, will only put a sticking plaster on the issues and emotional upset that you are experiencing at the moment.

[xjay1337]

Sorry to hear about what youre going through mate.
Dont over think things. Try and heed some of the advice here.

[Wacky Racer]

happychap said:

From your post, I would suggest that you and your wife would benefit from couple counselling to help you both determine what the issues are, and if you are both prepared to make the changes to salvage your marriage.

This.

NEVER dismiss mediation IF you want to try and save your marriage.

They CAN be brought back from the brink.

Certainly worth a try.

[Tuvra]

happychap said:

The majority of this advice OP, will only put a sticking plaster on the issues and emotional upset that you are experiencing at the moment.

Possibly, but dealing with the short term pain makes it easier in the long run. Thinking I could get my ex back was the most stupid mistake I ever made. It knocked me back 6-9 months and also saw me bin 3 or 4 potential partners in hope of it working out. When a woman is done, a woman is done.

[andy-xr]

BUt that's not what the OP is asking, he's (I think) looking at ways he can get things back to how they were. Your advice is short term coping that doesnt fix any problems jointly, just a bit of instant gratification.

The likely reality from what I've read though is that the OP's treating his wife a bit like a fkbuddy and not really giving anything else any time, and now she doesnt want that but he wants it just as it was and for her to put up with it. But that could just be the way I'm reading it.

What I couldnt get from the OP is whether he's manaaged to coax out of her what she thinks the problems are, and whether he sees them as problems and whether he sees them as problems he wants to work on and try to fix

[LikesBikes]

andy-xr said:

I think you need to decide whether it's important for you. Sounds like you're away a lot and if you're not physically there, you might only be in the relationship when it suits. Maybe she needs more

It sounds though you put a lot of the problems onto her and dont take that much responsibility yourself. You're never really there from the sounds of it anyway, both physically and emotionally, and you dont share things with her, such as how to deal with her son. That's basically you saying 'this is your problem, deal with it'

So she has.
I dont know what else really you want from that

I'm sure there's a lot of other stuff that you have done, and telling everyone about it wont really change a lot, because it's already happened.

I think if you want this to work, the job sounds like it's getting in the way a bit, and you're getting in the way with how you're prejudicing things to basically drive a wedge between you. While I'm sure she's no angel, it needs willing and a large amount of compromise. Be there more

Thank you all. This post strikes a chord, particularly this bit...

andy-xr said:

It sounds though you put a lot of the problems onto her and dont take that much responsibility yourself. You're never really there from the sounds of it anyway, both physically and emotionally, and you dont share things with her, such as how to deal with her son. That's basically you saying 'this is your problem, deal with it'

I guess to a point this is true, I always asked her if she was happy as it was and she would tell me it was. She has a pilgrimage (for want of a better word) to the place it happens, some way away, twice a year, the anniversary of his death and his birthday. I personally find this a bizarre thing to do, dragging the grief on. Obviously I never said this to her, although I did say once that the place itself isn't important as it was in her heart and memories that he lives on. She's always said I don't need to come as her mother and other close family/friends from that area accompany her. I always took this at face value and that was my mistake, I should've insisted I went too. I admit I was hung up on the anger over the things he did late in his life. Once that eased I guess I took the easy option of keeping away. She always seemed OK and now I realise that's because I never saw the outpouring of grief at the event.

That is the area I'm concentrating on fixing, I know it could look like I'm only doing it to get her back but I can't do anything about that and I guess it's kind of true. However I'm hoping that the fact that I'm doing the right thing will shine through regardless. I have been communicating through text and I've put this forward to her. I will go into the details when we discuss it in person.

I don't think there is anyone else, and I don't think she'd incriminate herself on Facebook - her mum is on her friends list and I don't think people generally admit infidelity in front of their parents, and knowing her I'd say she'd be least likely of all. But the Facebook thing is bizarre. I'm on there and also on her list although I'm far from an avid user, I don't really get it if I'm honest. Having said all this it's only the timeline thing she's deleted, the things she responded to rare posts of mine are still there.

What I suspect there might be is a stirrer, someone putting the knife in me. She doesn't know me other than to recognise me as her husband so I might be wrong there, but for some reason she strikes me as someone not to be trusted. I've since became aware that she's often round the house of an evening, this has never been highlighted to me. Even during our "what have you been up to?" conversations on my return. This came from my boy, there more than once at times over the four nights I've been away. This is a woman she works with, the time she started talking about her being friendly kind of ties in with a little while before the cold spells started.

[matrignano]

LikesBikes said:

What I suspect there might be is a stirrer, someone putting the knife in me. She doesn't know me other than to recognise me as her husband so I might be wrong there, but for some reason she strikes me as someone not to be trusted. I've since became aware that she's often round the house of an evening, this has never been highlighted to me. Even during our "what have you been up to?" conversations on my return. This came from my boy, there more than once at times over the four nights I've been away. This is a woman she works with, the time she started talking about her being friendly kind of ties in with a little while before the cold spells started.

Maybe your wife is shagging her?

[Tuvra]

LikesBikes said:

I don't think there is anyone else, and I don't think she'd incriminate herself on Facebook - her mum is on her friends list and I don't think people generally admit infidelity in front of their parents, and knowing her I'd say she'd be least likely of all. But the Facebook thing is bizarre. I'm on there and also on her list although I'm far from an avid user, I don't really get it if I'm honest. Having said all this it's only the timeline thing she's deleted, the things she responded to rare posts of mine are still there.

OP, as I stated, I thought my ex was the last person to be roped in as well, but she was. I can now see how it starts, you like almost everything they post, then comes the inbox "hey hows things, haven't seen you in ages", then it happens again, and again, guy starts turning the screw and then they are discussing feelings, before you know it dick head is telling her of her true worth and how she deserves more and that he would never leave her side etc etc.

I've been through what you are going through. People were telling me this and telling me that but I knew her better than they did, or so I thought. Truth is, they were spot on and she was pretty much exactly the same as every woman who had done it before her.

She didn't cheat, the dick head just unsettled her enough to make her take a leap of faith, by the time I knew where she was emotionally it was way too late and the damage was done

[happychap]

This may come across as harsh, however try to imagine what she has had to deal with regarding losing her son and not having you there to support her, despite her telling you it was ok for you not to accompany her. Her loss will always be there, she can learn over time to live with it. Try to Imagine what it would be like to be in her position.

[LikesBikes]

andy-xr said:

BUt that's not what the OP is asking, he's (I think) looking at ways he can get things back to how they were. Your advice is short term coping that doesnt fix any problems jointly, just a bit of instant gratification.

This, absolutely. But how they were a year ago when everything was brilliant. I'm willing to go the extra mile, I guess I never have enough thought to how things looked to her. Didn't make my feelings of love (sorry) apparent enough.

andy-xr said:

The likely reality from what I've read though is that the OP's treating his wife a bit like a fkbuddy and not really giving anything else any time, and now she doesnt want that but he wants it just as it was and for her to put up with it. But that could just be the way I'm reading it.

This really isn't the case, but I wonder if at times it could appear that way? This is what I want to fix. But fix properly, the whole way. This has been a wake up, I'm ashamed to admit. I think I've taken her and her feelings for granted rather than treat her as a buddy as you say. What I want back is the perfect relationship we used to have, the ideal.

I've already decided to speak to work regarding binning the nights away. The counselling idea is something I pondered, and the suggestion has spurred me on and I'm about to call them. She's aware that I'm dismissive about counselling generally, so it will hopefully show her how serious I am about changing. Changing is what I need to do and I'm determined to do it. And I mean all the way, no half measures. It's all I can do and I only want her back at home and happy, like she was not all that long ago.

Thank you all, you've spurred me out of my broken state and into something pro active.

[Jefferson Steelflex]

andy-xr said:

The likely reality from what I've read though is that the OP's treating his wife a bit like a fkbuddy and not really giving anything else any time, and now she doesn't want that but he wants it just as it was and for her to put up with it. But that could just be the way I'm reading it.

What I couldn't get from the OP is whether he's managed to coax out of her what she thinks the problems are, and whether he sees them as problems and whether he sees them as problems he wants to work on and try to fix

This is spot on what I was going to say. I have massive sympathy for you OP, but we don't know the reality of what you are like to live with. You are away Monday to Friday, return for weekends - so what are you like when you get home? Do you spend all weekend with your wife, talking and enjoying time together?

Do you call her most nights to catch up while you are away?

In other words, has it got to the pint where your wife just sees you as someone she just knows and sees when it suits you? She wants a friend and a lover, things like DIY might sound trivial but they are exactly the sort of thing that show you care because she would see it as you doing something that is important to her.

Can you get her back? No idea, but the status quo won't work and it could even be something as drastic as making sure you are home every night so you can be a 'proper' family. That might be a huge sacrifice on your part but it might be the only way.

Edited to Add - just read your post on changing your working pattern and counselling - this is a great start.

[MrBarry123]

happychap said:

From your post, I would suggest that you and your wife would benefit from couple counselling to help you both determine what the issues are, and if you are both prepared to make the changes to salvage your marriage.

I have zero marriage experience and therefore am in no way qualified to comment however it's quite clear from the contents of your post that your wife hasn't truly come to terms with losing her son and that this is the reason for her "coldness" towards you.

Perhaps focus on helping her through this process with professional assistance?

ETA: a lot of the breakdowns discussed on here are as a result of cheating, PHers being idiots PHers and/or a combination of both. From the sounds of it, your situation is completely different and therefore it'd probably be wise to ignore much of the advice and/or stories posted on this thread!

Edited by MrBarry123 on Thursday 25th August 10:50