Neighbour doing loft conversion has knocked into our loft
Discussion
So this is regarding my MIL, she lives in a terraced house, one of the two middle sections so has a party on each side. The terrace is 4 houses across.
The other middle terrace has started a loft conversion. In passing before starting the neighbour asked my MIL if she is ok with them doing this loft conversion. She didn't think it would affect her, so she said she didn't have a problem. No agreement was made on paper, no notification on paper, no notice on paper.
Scaffolding went up, and they actually have started building a dormer loft conversion - it's a flat roof extension on one side. All ok so far, nothing affecting the MIL.
MIL stuck her head in the loft recently to grab something, and noticed there is a layer of dust across all her stuff in the loft, and then noticed some small rubble beside the party wall. Looking up, she saw that a section of the top of the party wall (under the roof) has gone. So they have effectively knocked through the party wall at the top. I have inspected it, and not just at the top of the party wall, but some sections of the side of the wall (again right under the roof, sloping area) have been removed, so you can see sunlight coming through and wind into my MIL loft.
Is this allowed? Doesn't seem ok that they can knock into my MIL loft and expose her loft to the elements. No party wall agreement documents, no surveys on her side, and now there is a mess in her loft and rubble on her belongings. There is a good relationship with the neighbours - just want to know the legalities involved before going over to speak to them about it. MIL did mention it to them, and they just said it's the same on the other side of the loft (as in the end of terrace neighbour s having the same issue). No offer to clean up the mess or explanation. So I am going to go over and speak to them about it, but any further suggestions appreciated. Is it safe for them to take bricks out of the loft wall supporting the roof?
thanks
The other middle terrace has started a loft conversion. In passing before starting the neighbour asked my MIL if she is ok with them doing this loft conversion. She didn't think it would affect her, so she said she didn't have a problem. No agreement was made on paper, no notification on paper, no notice on paper.
Scaffolding went up, and they actually have started building a dormer loft conversion - it's a flat roof extension on one side. All ok so far, nothing affecting the MIL.
MIL stuck her head in the loft recently to grab something, and noticed there is a layer of dust across all her stuff in the loft, and then noticed some small rubble beside the party wall. Looking up, she saw that a section of the top of the party wall (under the roof) has gone. So they have effectively knocked through the party wall at the top. I have inspected it, and not just at the top of the party wall, but some sections of the side of the wall (again right under the roof, sloping area) have been removed, so you can see sunlight coming through and wind into my MIL loft.
Is this allowed? Doesn't seem ok that they can knock into my MIL loft and expose her loft to the elements. No party wall agreement documents, no surveys on her side, and now there is a mess in her loft and rubble on her belongings. There is a good relationship with the neighbours - just want to know the legalities involved before going over to speak to them about it. MIL did mention it to them, and they just said it's the same on the other side of the loft (as in the end of terrace neighbour s having the same issue). No offer to clean up the mess or explanation. So I am going to go over and speak to them about it, but any further suggestions appreciated. Is it safe for them to take bricks out of the loft wall supporting the roof?
thanks
Going by the book there should be a Party Wall Agreement in place, but plenty conversions are done without one and just done with the neighbours knowledge/permission. As for knocking out the brickwork then no that shouldn't happen as the party wall should be 9" i.e two bricks thick, only one side of the wall should be removed to install the steel beams. You do occasionally get some cracking next door but a complete breakthrough is naughty. If the wall is only one brick (can't say I ever seen this when I done them) then at the very least they should have informed the neighbours on both sides, covered any belongings and made good any mess.
Problem is they probably took your MILs' approval as not needing a party wall agreement (as in hoped she wouldn't think of it). Might be a bit late now - I've seen even surveyors suggesting that people just plow on as by the time its done its too late to do anything. I'd focus on getting it fixed.
ozzuk said:
Problem is they probably took your MILs' approval as not needing a party wall agreement (as in hoped she wouldn't think of it). Might be a bit late now - I've seen even surveyors suggesting that people just plow on as by the time its done its too late to do anything. I'd focus on getting it fixed.
Doesn't matter, they are still bound by the law governing party walls; it's the neighbour's problem to fix.
Little Lofty said:
Going by the book there should be a Party Wall Agreement in place, but plenty conversions are done without one and just done with the neighbours knowledge/permission. As for knocking out the brickwork then no that shouldn't happen as the party wall should be 9" i.e two bricks thick, only one side of the wall should be removed to install the steel beams. You do occasionally get some cracking next door but a complete breakthrough is naughty. If the wall is only one brick (can't say I ever seen this when I done them) then at the very least they should have informed the neighbours on both sides, covered any belongings and made good any mess.
What Lofty said ^^.I had one done in my first house 20-odd years ago. We let the neighbours know beforehand and they were ok (well, as OK as you can be knowing a bunch of hairy buolders are going to be stomping all over your roof
). I hadn't realised a PWA was needed and neither my architect nor Building regs suggested I needed one. Our party wall was 2 bricks thick with (IIRC) a bit of a gap in between)Spoke to neighbor yesterday, he didn't realise that my MIL loft bricks had been damaged. He said they his builders were knocking the wall quite hard on his side, so that can cause some damage on my MIL's side. Said he will send his builders over to check the damage and then hopefully sort it. Thanks all for your helpful comments.
If it we're me, I'd still be instigating the Party Wall process. Clearly the builder doesn't know his own strength (or doesn't care about damaging other peoples property), so does that give you any comfort as to the standard of his work, and how it might impact the property you're concerned about. Presumably you've considered what might happen as and when the property is eventually sold and someone instructs a proper survey, only to discover structural problems with the build?
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