The Official 2016 Italian Grand Prix Thread **Spoilers**
Discussion
Is that maneuver actually illegal though? As far as I'm aware, the rules simply say you may only move once; they don't put any limits on when you may perform that move (beyond not forcing other drivers off the track, etc.). Whilst he does sometimes seem to weave, the thing most of the drivers seem to be complaining about is that he moves very late, after the following driver has committed to a side; as far as I know the rules don't explicitly disallow that?
a google found this, not sure how genuine it is.
F1 rule book google said:
On a straight, a defending driver has the right to suddenly change direction, even using the entire track width if they are fully ahead of the attacking driver. The same right does not apply in or immediately before the braking zone for a corner. Sudden changes of direction just before or within the braking zone are considered extremely dangerous, as they can leave the attacking driver nowhere to go. This rule is not stated explicitly in the FIA sporting regulations, but is considered an “abnormal change of direction” under sporting regulation 20.5
This is what Raikkonen has been banging on about, the change of direction in the braking zone.So Ferrari tell us they've switched focus to 2017, but Marchionne is still saying stuff like this: http://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/marchionne-warns... I think he's still rooting around, weeding out the issues and dead wood. Expect everyone in red to be on their toes this weekend.
Including a Mr S Vettel who it seems has had more contact with his team mate on lap 1 than anyone else in recent memory. Even Mr Maldonado usually managed a lap or so before making a mess of things.
I don't think the issue with the supersofts at Spa will repeat here, its much lower downforce and the tyres aren't worked as hard. As a result I think Merc will have a bit more of a lead on the rest. Tyre pressures are still a concern though, I'm guessing that Pirelli won't demand sky high pressures here and the loading on the tyres is less. Remember this is where the whole thing around dropping pressures started last year.
Curious thing I noticed while looking at previous years - other than 2014 (when Hamilton got impeded by Sutil) Rosberg last out qualified his team mate here in 2010, since then he's always been at least a few tenths behind. Given that he is generally quick over a lap I'm confused - has it been bad luck ? does the track not suit him ? He was unlucky last year with the engine blowing up and may have got second (he was chasing Vettel when it went pop) but didn't have a chance of catching Hamilton.
I think we can expect a good run by Danny Ricciardo who looks a bit more comfortable again. Max ? I think he'll still have the bravado and words, but will have been told to reign it in a bit by Marko / Horner, meantime it seems Toto is enjoying the press talking about someone else's driver and dodgy moves on track
Can't decide if the RBR will be faster than the Ferrari here, I'm inclined to say it won't be because I think the Ferrari engine is better than the Renault but we'll see.
I think Mclaren can battle with Force India and Williams for the lower half of the top 10. STR appear to be all at sea, Sauber's new found wealth is too late and the Renaults won't improve really. That leaves Manor - eyes will be on Ocon again.
Including a Mr S Vettel who it seems has had more contact with his team mate on lap 1 than anyone else in recent memory. Even Mr Maldonado usually managed a lap or so before making a mess of things.
I don't think the issue with the supersofts at Spa will repeat here, its much lower downforce and the tyres aren't worked as hard. As a result I think Merc will have a bit more of a lead on the rest. Tyre pressures are still a concern though, I'm guessing that Pirelli won't demand sky high pressures here and the loading on the tyres is less. Remember this is where the whole thing around dropping pressures started last year.
Curious thing I noticed while looking at previous years - other than 2014 (when Hamilton got impeded by Sutil) Rosberg last out qualified his team mate here in 2010, since then he's always been at least a few tenths behind. Given that he is generally quick over a lap I'm confused - has it been bad luck ? does the track not suit him ? He was unlucky last year with the engine blowing up and may have got second (he was chasing Vettel when it went pop) but didn't have a chance of catching Hamilton.
I think we can expect a good run by Danny Ricciardo who looks a bit more comfortable again. Max ? I think he'll still have the bravado and words, but will have been told to reign it in a bit by Marko / Horner, meantime it seems Toto is enjoying the press talking about someone else's driver and dodgy moves on track
Can't decide if the RBR will be faster than the Ferrari here, I'm inclined to say it won't be because I think the Ferrari engine is better than the Renault but we'll see.
I think Mclaren can battle with Force India and Williams for the lower half of the top 10. STR appear to be all at sea, Sauber's new found wealth is too late and the Renaults won't improve really. That leaves Manor - eyes will be on Ocon again.
Crafty_ said:
Can't decide if the RBR will be faster than the Ferrari here, I'm inclined to say it won't be because I think the Ferrari engine is better than the Renault but we'll see.
Ferrari bringing their engine upgrades in? As so often the case there's the Ferrari, but then there's the Monza Ferrari.Drive Blind said:
Smollet said:
Will Verstappen continue to drive in a reckless fashion and if so will the stewards have the balls to do something about it?
Well, his behaviour that's annoying the other drivers is a late move in the braking area. With a big stop into turn 1 I would suggest he'll have plenty of opportunity to use it this weekend.He doesn't think he's doing anything wrong so unless somebody with influence has had a quiet word with him then he'll continue. I'll also bet in private Max and all his supporters will love noising up 'old man' Raikkonen.
Then again, do it to a red car at Monza...
Horses head?
Drive Blind said:
a google found this, not sure how genuine it is.
But it wasn't in the braking zone, at least the incident at Spa, it was the middle of the straight. There seems to be a gentleman's agreement that the drivers don't do what he did but as far as I can see there isn't actually a rule against it. Don't get me wrong, I'm not defending it. That sort of action at 200mph with a significant closing speed due to DRS is bloody dangerous but the stewards aren't going to penalise him for it because it's not against the rules. F1 rule book google said:
On a straight, a defending driver has the right to suddenly change direction, even using the entire track width if they are fully ahead of the attacking driver. The same right does not apply in or immediately before the braking zone for a corner. Sudden changes of direction just before or within the braking zone are considered extremely dangerous, as they can leave the attacking driver nowhere to go. This rule is not stated explicitly in the FIA sporting regulations, but is considered an “abnormal change of direction” under sporting regulation 20.5
This is what Raikkonen has been banging on about, the change of direction in the braking zone.Anyway this is rather off top for this thread.
Edited by kambites on Wednesday 31st August 21:50
Flooble said:
No one is considering that Hamilton may pick up his third reprimand here in order to get a ten place grid drop and increase the chance of a red car on the front row of the grid?
Of course it's possible but if he was going to do it deliberately on a track where overtaking is possible why didn't he do it last weekend when the penalty would presumably have effectively been nothing?kambites said:
Of course it's possible but if he was going to do it deliberately on a track where overtaking is possible why didn't he do it last weekend when the penalty would presumably have effectively been nothing?
I think (at least I assumed) he means that the stewards will do it rather than Lewis to ensure a pony on the front row at the home crowd..... Jasandjules said:
I think (at least I assumed) he means that the stewards will do it rather than Lewis to ensure a pony on the front row at the home crowd.....
Yes, sorry, I did indeed mean that I expected the FIA (led by Jean Todt, ex Ferrari), officiating at the Italian Grand Prix with mainly Italian staff, to perhaps be extremely sensitive to any minor infringements and the penalties available to them. For example, in Germany Hamilton had an unsafe release during P3 (http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2016-f1-season/statistics/penalties-index/) but the only penalty levied was a fine for the team. I can envisage the stewards being less lenient should there be a similar incident this weekend. TheInternet said:
Crafty_ said:
Can't decide if the RBR will be faster than the Ferrari here, I'm inclined to say it won't be because I think the Ferrari engine is better than the Renault but we'll see.
Ferrari bringing their engine upgrades in? As so often the case there's the Ferrari, but then there's the Monza Ferrari.Flooble said:
Yes, sorry, I did indeed mean that I expected the FIA (led by Jean Todt, ex Ferrari), officiating at the Italian Grand Prix with mainly Italian staff, to perhaps be extremely sensitive to any minor infringements and the penalties available to them.
I don't think that's the case, many drivers managed by Nicolas Todt and indeed Michael Schumacher were penalised by the stewards on numerous occasions. If Schumacher was penalised for his overtake of Alonso in Monaco before the safety car line then there most definitely is no Todt bias since most observers thought it was a great move by Michael and was legal, the stewards disagreed and docked him that place.
Flooble said:
I'm referring in particular to Monza, where things are a bit special. Wasn't Schumacher driving for Mercedes anyway when he made that pass? And the steward was a certain Damon Hill?
He was but honestly I don't think Todt exerts any kind of influence or power. He's like the Patrick Swayze of F1..Todt's relationship with Ferrari is at best mixed. I believe he is not best loved by those who own classic Ferraris.
To give him his due, he's done nothing wrong so has a much better CV as boss than the previous two incumbents. He's been shafted by Mosley who seemed to want to ensure that he'd have much less money to play with.
Mind you, I thought he'd try to get back in their good books but I've been wrong so often that even I don't believe what I believe any more.
To give him his due, he's done nothing wrong so has a much better CV as boss than the previous two incumbents. He's been shafted by Mosley who seemed to want to ensure that he'd have much less money to play with.
Mind you, I thought he'd try to get back in their good books but I've been wrong so often that even I don't believe what I believe any more.
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