Hamilton or Rosberg for 2016 WDC?

[Flooble]

Crafty_ said:

...
Hamilton has made mistakes - Baku being the most obvious one, the lockup in Singapore that let Kimi past, he isn't perfect - none of them are but to say his driving has been worse than Rosberg this year is simply not correct.

Well, I guess this comes down to perspective (BTW, when I said Rosberg was there to win when Hamilton fluffed it, I was not forgetting the reliability issues, by "fluff" I was referring to the start problems and the qualifying errors).

You say the clutch issue has affected both cars and thus is not the fault of Hamilton, however, Rosberg does not seem to have had the same level of problems with his clutch - is this more Hamilton reliability issues or just not being able to drive around the manual clutch?

It would also seem fair to point out that Rosberg managed to stay out of trouble when he was heading backwards after his poor start in Germany. Yes, Bottas got penalised for the crash in Bahrain but it's better to avoid the incompetent other guy in the first place. Not much consolation being in the right when your car is in pieces.

Missing the long-run section of FP2 in Singapore really shouldn't have compromised Hamilton to the extent of only qualifying in third and only being able to scrape into that third place in the race.

Rosberg has 8 wins this year to Hamilton's 6. And Hamilton was gifted Monaco by Red Bull incompetence (and his team-mate moving over) which evens things up a little to Rosberg being gifted Spa by Hamilton's engine penalties (and being fair China by Hamilton's reliability issues, and Russia ditto). In other words, taking away the "gifted" wins they are on five each.

So really the difference comes down to Hamilton's starts and particularly him struggling to make up places in China - seventh place not that great in a car that is the class of the field and had a half second per lap advantage. Rosberg should have done better than fourth in Hungary too, but to finish fourth instead of seventh when facing problems is really what has given him his current advantage.

[Clevers]

My twopence worth is that rain could influence the outcome. Rosberg seems to struggle in the wet and If we see wet races at Malaysia, Japan, Brazil or Austin it could have a bearing and be Hamilton's best chance.

The odds are against Hamilton now as he needs to win 4 out of the 6 remaining races assuming that Rosberg maintains his consistent run and bags second at each race.

I agree with the earlier post that the team would prefer to see Rosberg win this year, something they gave a nudge to by switching the pit teams around at the start of the year.

I think if Hamilton doesn't win in Malaysia and level things to within a point immediately, then it is likely to be too much ground to make up.

[GCH]

Lewis thoroughly deserves this one and will have absolutely earnt it in every way - especially after coming back from such a run of bad mechanical luck at the start of the season. He has clearly matured massively as both a person and a driver.

I really hope that nr does not win it.
Not only is he an inferior driver and not a racer, he is a cheat and has exhibited some apalling and dangerous errors in judgement then swore black is white he was not in the wrong, and that contributes to him coming across as an absolute arrogant and unlikeable cock.

Personally I would like to see Lewis win again, nr then quit, and the second Mercedes seat go to someone far more deserving of it.

[Pistom]

GCH said:

Lewis thoroughly deserves this one and will have absolutely earnt it in every way - especially after coming back from such a run of bad mechanical luck at the start of the season. He has clearly matured massively as both a person and a driver.

I really hope that nr does not win it.
Not only is he an inferior driver and not a racer, he is a cheat and has exhibited some apalling and dangerous errors in judgement then swore black is white he was not in the wrong, and that contributes to him coming across as an absolute arrogant and unlikeable cock.

Personally I would like to see Lewis win again, nr then quit, and the second Mercedes seat go to someone far more deserving of it.

This.

[Mansells Tash]

KevinCamaroSS said:

Mansells Tash said:

Personally I believe Rosberg actually had him at the end of last season, no racing driver decides to coast and let his team mate win a few when they have personal differences like these two do.

Never heard of team orders?

Yes and I don't believe for a second Hamilton would let Rosberg gloat the way he was over his wins late in the season if there had been team orders, Hamilton would have let slip that was the case.

[hora]

Nico Seconberg will win it

[oyster]

Crafty_ said:

Flooble said:

Monza was his own poor start;

Wrong, team told him and everyone else it was a return of the clutch issue that has affected both cars this year. https://adamcooperf1.com/2016/09/04/lewis-hamilton...

Flooble said:

Australia, Bahrain were his own poor starts and not keeping out of trouble)

Wrong, clutch issue. In Bahrain the clash with Bottas was the fault of the Williams driver and was penalised for it.

Flooble said:

Singapore he couldn't get the car setup;

...because the car had a hydraulic leak and he lost pretty much all of FP2. On one of the tracks that is probably most critical tracks for having track time.

Flooble said:

This year, Rosberg has been consistent and there to pick up the win each time Hamilton fluffed it.

Tripe. You conveniently forgot to mention:


China, where the MGU-H died in Q1, leaving Hamilton starting from the back of the grid as he didn't set a time. He also had a gearbox change due to failure.

Russia where the MGU-H failed again in Q3, leaving him starting 10th.

Spain where Rosberg's dodgy move (and to be fair, Hamilton's candidness) meant both cars didn't finish

Spa, where thanks to earlier failures Hamilton had to start at the back of the grid due to engine penalties.

You also forgot to mention Rosberg's "full lock" moves, which frankly were amateur at best. Rosberg's only reliability issue was a gearbox change because he damaged it in a crash in free practice in Austria.

At one point Rosberg had a 43 point lead, Hamilton wiped that out (when the car worked properly...). If he hadn't had some many reliability issues he'd be in a fairly comfortable lead.

Rosberg is a good driver, he isn't a great racer. If he wins the WDC it will be purely because of poor reliability on Hamilton's car and no issues on his.

Reliability might even bite Hamilton yet - Rosberg still has engines left, so if Mercedes release a revised unit, he can take it, Hamilton added three to the pool in Spa and is now fixed with those engines, so could be further disadvantaged.

Hamilton has made mistakes - Baku being the most obvious one, the lockup in Singapore that let Kimi past, he isn't perfect - none of them are but to say his driving has been worse than Rosberg this year is simply not correct.

Rubbish.

If either driver wins this year it will be fully deserved.

The obsession with 'racing' is getting tedious. Most of the championships won since 1950 have not been won by wheel rubbing. F1 is not touring cars.

[oyster]

Pistom said:

GCH said:

Lewis thoroughly deserves this one and will have absolutely earnt it in every way - especially after coming back from such a run of bad mechanical luck at the start of the season. He has clearly matured massively as both a person and a driver.

I really hope that nr does not win it.
Not only is he an inferior driver and not a racer, he is a cheat and has exhibited some apalling and dangerous errors in judgement then swore black is white he was not in the wrong, and that contributes to him coming across as an absolute arrogant and unlikeable cock.

Personally I would like to see Lewis win again, nr then quit, and the second Mercedes seat go to someone far more deserving of it.

This.

Infantile and uninformed.

Can I suggest following football instead as it's better suited to such drivel?

[KevinCamaroSS]

oyster said:

Pistom said:

GCH said:

Lewis thoroughly deserves this one and will have absolutely earnt it in every way - especially after coming back from such a run of bad mechanical luck at the start of the season. He has clearly matured massively as both a person and a driver.

I really hope that nr does not win it.
Not only is he an inferior driver and not a racer, he is a cheat and has exhibited some apalling and dangerous errors in judgement then swore black is white he was not in the wrong, and that contributes to him coming across as an absolute arrogant and unlikeable cock.

Personally I would like to see Lewis win again, nr then quit, and the second Mercedes seat go to someone far more deserving of it.

This.

Infantile and uninformed.

Can I suggest following football instead as it's better suited to such drivel?

Can I ask why you think it infantile and uninformed? Most of what was posted is easily proveable. Rosberg has cheated, and been punished for some of the cheats. Rosberg is no-where near the racer Hamilton is, ask anybody (unbiased) who really knows F1 and they will tell you Hamilton is in the top 3 of the current drivers and Rosberg is not.

[coetzeeh]

GCH said:

Lewis thoroughly deserves this one and will have absolutely earnt it in every way - especially after coming back from such a run of bad mechanical luck at the start of the season. He has clearly matured massively as both a person and a driver.

I really hope that nr does not win it.
...... he is a cheat and has exhibited some apalling and dangerous ....

remember Melbourne 2009?

[kambites]

I think Hamilton probably deserves to win it - overall he's been the better driver, at least so far. I'd rather see Rosberg win it though just because it would probably make next season more interesting.

If I had to put money on it, I'd say Hamilton. I think he's the better driver overall.

[deadslow]

KevinCamaroSS said:

oyster said:

Pistom said:

GCH said:

Lewis thoroughly deserves this one and will have absolutely earnt it in every way - especially after coming back from such a run of bad mechanical luck at the start of the season. He has clearly matured massively as both a person and a driver.

I really hope that nr does not win it.
Not only is he an inferior driver and not a racer, he is a cheat and has exhibited some apalling and dangerous errors in judgement then swore black is white he was not in the wrong, and that contributes to him coming across as an absolute arrogant and unlikeable cock.

Personally I would like to see Lewis win again, nr then quit, and the second Mercedes seat go to someone far more deserving of it.

This.

Infantile and uninformed.

Can I suggest following football instead as it's better suited to such drivel?

Can I ask why you think it infantile and uninformed? Most of what was posted is easily proveable. Rosberg has cheated, and been punished for some of the cheats. Rosberg is no-where near the racer Hamilton is, ask anybody (unbiased) who really knows F1 and they will tell you Hamilton is in the top 3 of the current drivers and Rosberg is not.

its started

[tertius]

I'd prefer it to be Hamilton but expect it to be Rosberg. What has changed that will break the string of poor starts from Hamilton? It seems that's all you need to decide the race.

[Smollet]

Providing Britney can get pole for the next 3 races he should win but if it comes down to fighting for position then I'd put my money on Hamilton. I make no bones that I just can't warm to Rosberg but if he wins this year then fair enough but he will have benefitted from his teammates reliability problems during the course of the season. Doesn't make him less of a champion though.

[EagleMoto4-2]

Crafty_ said:

Flooble said:

Monza was his own poor start;

Wrong, team told him and everyone else it was a return of the clutch issue that has affected both cars this year. https://adamcooperf1.com/2016/09/04/lewis-hamilton...

Flooble said:

Australia, Bahrain were his own poor starts and not keeping out of trouble)

Wrong, clutch issue. In Bahrain the clash with Bottas was the fault of the Williams driver and was penalised for it.

Flooble said:

Singapore he couldn't get the car setup;

...because the car had a hydraulic leak and he lost pretty much all of FP2. On one of the tracks that is probably most critical tracks for having track time.

Flooble said:

This year, Rosberg has been consistent and there to pick up the win each time Hamilton fluffed it.

Tripe. You conveniently forgot to mention:


China, where the MGU-H died in Q1, leaving Hamilton starting from the back of the grid as he didn't set a time. He also had a gearbox change due to failure.

Russia where the MGU-H failed again in Q3, leaving him starting 10th.

Spain where Rosberg's dodgy move (and to be fair, Hamilton's candidness) meant both cars didn't finish

Spa, where thanks to earlier failures Hamilton had to start at the back of the grid due to engine penalties.

You also forgot to mention Rosberg's "full lock" moves, which frankly were amateur at best. Rosberg's only reliability issue was a gearbox change because he damaged it in a crash in free practice in Austria.

At one point Rosberg had a 43 point lead, Hamilton wiped that out (when the car worked properly...). If he hadn't had some many reliability issues he'd be in a fairly comfortable lead.

Rosberg is a good driver, he isn't a great racer. If he wins the WDC it will be purely because of poor reliability on Hamilton's car and no issues on his.

Reliability might even bite Hamilton yet - Rosberg still has engines left, so if Mercedes release a revised unit, he can take it, Hamilton added three to the pool in Spa and is now fixed with those engines, so could be further disadvantaged.

Hamilton has made mistakes - Baku being the most obvious one, the lockup in Singapore that let Kimi past, he isn't perfect - none of them are but to say his driving has been worse than Rosberg this year is simply not correct.

The biggest pointer to the gap in ability between the two drivers this year came at Monaco. Rosberg was woeful, slow and was told to move out of the way to let Ham past. Ham was then able to pile the pressure on Red Bull and steal the win. Had he qualified further up the grid he probably wouldn't have needed Red Bull to mess up.
This on a wet track which makes an already difficult circuit very tricky indeed.

[oyster]

I'm no fan of either driver, but it still amazes me how little people know about sport. The very best do not always win, even in F1 where they have the best car.

This is a 21-race championship and hence it rewards consistency AND ability across many different scenarios and situations.

Whoever wins it, will have won it fully deserved. Rosberg has already won over 50% of the races held in 2016 - by any measure that is stunning. If you note he's up against a triple champion then it's an even bigger achievement.

[KevinCamaroSS]

oyster said:

I'm no fan of either driver, but it still amazes me how little people know about sport. The very best do not always win, even in F1 where they have the best car.

This is a 21-race championship and hence it rewards consistency AND ability across many different scenarios and situations.

Whoever wins it, will have won it fully deserved. Rosberg has already won over 50% of the races held in 2016 - by any measure that is stunning. If you note he's up against a triple champion then it's an even bigger achievement.

You obviously did not read the post above.

[FeelingLucky]

EagleMoto4-2 said:

The biggest pointer to the gap in ability between the two drivers this year came at Monaco. Rosberg was woeful, slow and was told to move out of the way to let Ham past. Ham was then able to pile the pressure on Red Bull and steal the win. Had he qualified further up the grid he probably wouldn't have needed Red Bull to mess up.
This on a wet track which makes an already difficult circuit very tricky indeed.

Hamilton was woeful in Singapore, qualified poorly, then raced poorly, even got passed by Raikkonen.
But more worryingly his head doesn't seem to be in it anymore. When he trailed Rosberg by a good number of points, I STILL believed he could win the WDC. After this weekend, I'm convinced Rosburg will take it.

[bunglesprout]

If Rosberg doesn't win this championship, it will go down as one of the biggest chokes in sporting history, regardless of the circumstances. Ultimately, I would like the winner to be the driver who has won the most races over the season.

[anonymous-user]

KevinCamaroSS said:

oyster said:

Pistom said:

GCH said:

Lewis thoroughly deserves this one and will have absolutely earnt it in every way - especially after coming back from such a run of bad mechanical luck at the start of the season. He has clearly matured massively as both a person and a driver.

I really hope that nr does not win it.
Not only is he an inferior driver and not a racer, he is a cheat and has exhibited some apalling and dangerous errors in judgement then swore black is white he was not in the wrong, and that contributes to him coming across as an absolute arrogant and unlikeable cock.

Personally I would like to see Lewis win again, nr then quit, and the second Mercedes seat go to someone far more deserving of it.

This.

Infantile and uninformed.

Can I suggest following football instead as it's better suited to such drivel?

Can I ask why you think it infantile and uninformed? Most of what was posted is easily proveable. Rosberg has cheated, and been punished for some of the cheats. Rosberg is no-where near the racer Hamilton is, ask anybody (unbiased) who really knows F1 and they will tell you Hamilton is in the top 3 of the current drivers and Rosberg is not.

Hamilton is the only proven cheat. On more than one occasion.

Amongst other things you have mistaken inadvertently breaking rules with deliberate cheating.