Newbie to motorsport looking for advice
Discussion
Hi There,
Seems like there are a lot of knowledgable motorsport people here so here goes...
I have done a fair share of track driving and experiences like Palmersport, single seaters, Porsche half-day, Ginettas etc etc and now I want to take driving further by starting motorsport. Living in London I am constantly frustrated by speed cameras, traffic, speed bumps and more traffic and the motorways are getting busier and busier to take you anywhere far in any short space of time. I sold my V12 Vantage S because the money spent on upkeep was not worth the fun I got from the occasional empty road and I have no interest in driving at 2mph through Knightsbridge to be 'seen' and rev my engine.
Long story short, I am 25 (so well past karting), with some decent track experience looking to one day in maybe 10 years be on a GT3 grid in a 24hr race. Whether or not I get there is a different story... :S
I have an ok budget to spend but it's not unlimited!
The problem newbies have is there is so much choice out there with many companies ready to take your cash. I don't mind spending a little more... BUT I want to maximise driving time, tuition, learning and ideally drive amongst similar calibre drivers in a well run and supported event.
So... Do I pay for an all inclusive package like Ginetta GRDC, Caterham Academy or Radical SR1? Or do I go at it alone and enter something like the Mini Challenge or even Amateur classes of GT4 categories and organise coaching and training along the way? Why not go for the top, attack the steeper learning curve and save money that would have otherwise been spent on 'lower leagues'? As a Novice I cannot answer that!
Looking forward to hearing people's thoughts and experiences!
Cheers
Seems like there are a lot of knowledgable motorsport people here so here goes...
I have done a fair share of track driving and experiences like Palmersport, single seaters, Porsche half-day, Ginettas etc etc and now I want to take driving further by starting motorsport. Living in London I am constantly frustrated by speed cameras, traffic, speed bumps and more traffic and the motorways are getting busier and busier to take you anywhere far in any short space of time. I sold my V12 Vantage S because the money spent on upkeep was not worth the fun I got from the occasional empty road and I have no interest in driving at 2mph through Knightsbridge to be 'seen' and rev my engine.
Long story short, I am 25 (so well past karting), with some decent track experience looking to one day in maybe 10 years be on a GT3 grid in a 24hr race. Whether or not I get there is a different story... :S
I have an ok budget to spend but it's not unlimited!
The problem newbies have is there is so much choice out there with many companies ready to take your cash. I don't mind spending a little more... BUT I want to maximise driving time, tuition, learning and ideally drive amongst similar calibre drivers in a well run and supported event.
So... Do I pay for an all inclusive package like Ginetta GRDC, Caterham Academy or Radical SR1? Or do I go at it alone and enter something like the Mini Challenge or even Amateur classes of GT4 categories and organise coaching and training along the way? Why not go for the top, attack the steeper learning curve and save money that would have otherwise been spent on 'lower leagues'? As a Novice I cannot answer that!
Looking forward to hearing people's thoughts and experiences!
Cheers
id always endorse something like the cateram academy. start in the academy cars and work your way through the classes up to the superlight championship but it would also set you up nicely to race in radicals, gt4 etc. ive no experience in racing in the class, but have spectated/ marshalled at many of their events and the racing is great, you are amongst drivers of the same experience and the whole caterham set up is very good with tuition, arrive and drive packages etc.
im guessing that you could also look at the radical sr1 cup or ginetta championship and work up their ladders too
http://uk.caterhamcars.com/motorsport/academy
http://ginetta.com/racing.php?championship=grdc&am...
http://uk.radicalsportscars.com/sr1cup/
adam
im guessing that you could also look at the radical sr1 cup or ginetta championship and work up their ladders too
http://uk.caterhamcars.com/motorsport/academy
http://ginetta.com/racing.php?championship=grdc&am...
http://uk.radicalsportscars.com/sr1cup/
adam
Edited by 37chevy on Friday 30th September 14:57
If you are planning to end up doing GT3, start in a car that will teach you as much as possible about it. I would start with Ginetta GT5 series, you can then move to GT4 and GT3 with their support. GT3 is brutally expensive, so this route also allows you to get into cost effective GT4 and you can easily run a G%% GT4 in a 24 hour race as well.
Rolling8ball said:
Hi There,
Long story short, I am 25 (so well past karting), with some decent track experience looking to one day in maybe 10 years be on a GT3 grid in a 24hr race. Whether or not I get there is a different story... :S
I have an ok budget to spend but it's not unlimited!
Cheers
Most definitely not too old for karting at 25! Look into Rotax Max plenty of drivers 45+. Long story short, I am 25 (so well past karting), with some decent track experience looking to one day in maybe 10 years be on a GT3 grid in a 24hr race. Whether or not I get there is a different story... :S
I have an ok budget to spend but it's not unlimited!
Cheers
Have a chat with Nathan at http://www.centurymotorsport.com/ He is a really nice guy and has lots of experience with Ginetta amongst other things.
I would find someone to run a car for you in the 750MC M3 Cup and then do some Roadsports & Club Enduro as well. It will be a good introduction to saloons with a close single make field. Dont spend your way to the front, but do it with skill and you will do well.
John runs my car for me (http://www.jjperformance.co.uk/) and also offers arrive and drive deals. He has run Tim Harvey in a Alfa and done loads of rallying so knows what he is doing.
John runs my car for me (http://www.jjperformance.co.uk/) and also offers arrive and drive deals. He has run Tim Harvey in a Alfa and done loads of rallying so knows what he is doing.
How about a Radical or something similar (Spire/Juno)? BRSCC OSS looks like a good cost effective series with decent grids, 3 races over a weekend, close racing and a welcoming approach to new competitors. I'm trying it out for the first time at Silverstone next weekend, but everything I've seen or heard about the championship has been very positive. Corinium Motorsport at Cirencester look after my SR3 and also have cars on an arrive and drive basis, so you could try a Radical out before committing to the cost of buying a car to join the OSS or something like the SR1 for the Radical series.
I don't know what an 'ok' budget is. In my experience, whatever series you go into, an 'ok' budget is probably whatever you thought would be enough multiplied by at least 1.5. Then there’s always the fact that some of your competitor’s budgets will be ‘more than ok’. As an amateur driver it’s eye-opening and in the long run it can be downright soul destroying. You’d probably like to imagine this isn’t the case in club motorsport but I assure you in the majority of series it is. Knowing your competitor hasn’t got £10k worth of trick parts in his / her engine is a great way to cut the crap and get a realistic barometer of your level. Having experienced the latter scenario I can only add that there is little more disheartening than turning up for a race weekend knowing that your car cannot possibly beat their car.
Therefore my advice would be to find a spec series with very tight regulations, sealed engines, prescribed part numbers, limited tyres etc. I come from Caterhams which are excellent, and I’m sure there are equivalent Ginetta and Radical series which are probably more expensive but probably faster.
Don’t rule out karts, 25 is not old.
Whatever you do, don’t kid yourself that it’ll be cheap. £10k to run a season is pretty standard, if you want driver analysis, training, support etc you’re likely to go over that.
Therefore my advice would be to find a spec series with very tight regulations, sealed engines, prescribed part numbers, limited tyres etc. I come from Caterhams which are excellent, and I’m sure there are equivalent Ginetta and Radical series which are probably more expensive but probably faster.
Don’t rule out karts, 25 is not old.
Whatever you do, don’t kid yourself that it’ll be cheap. £10k to run a season is pretty standard, if you want driver analysis, training, support etc you’re likely to go over that.
I see quite a number of novice crosses on cars in GT Cup - McLarens, Aston Martins, so there are sufficiently well heeled people to dip their toes in racing in a high end series.
However, being more realistic I would start somewhere different, Caterham Academy, Ginetta Academy, or possibly one of the Lotus Elise or MX5 series. That would teach you race craft, and the cars are realistically priced so that damage is less crippling.
When you feel ready to move up, there are various Radical championships, various Mini or Golf/VAG trophies.
And then there are things like GT Cup as a precursor to your GT3 ambition.
You could either rent cars to start with, but there are any number of race prep teams who would look after your car, so all you have to do is turn up with helmet and boots and drive it.
A novice would benefit from tuition, so at the very least in car cameras, but cars with datalogging (if allowed) allow more scientific comparisons with previous laps, and maybe other cars depending on the team and nature of the series.
However, being more realistic I would start somewhere different, Caterham Academy, Ginetta Academy, or possibly one of the Lotus Elise or MX5 series. That would teach you race craft, and the cars are realistically priced so that damage is less crippling.
When you feel ready to move up, there are various Radical championships, various Mini or Golf/VAG trophies.
And then there are things like GT Cup as a precursor to your GT3 ambition.
You could either rent cars to start with, but there are any number of race prep teams who would look after your car, so all you have to do is turn up with helmet and boots and drive it.
A novice would benefit from tuition, so at the very least in car cameras, but cars with datalogging (if allowed) allow more scientific comparisons with previous laps, and maybe other cars depending on the team and nature of the series.
Edited by andrewcliffe on Wednesday 12th October 15:52
I have just done 2 years starting as a novice in the Radical SR1 cup. You wont go faster for the money and you are all in the same boat.They do support you all the way and that was invaluable for me. The SR1 is a doddle to work on, with proven reliability and I ran it myself.I brought used not new in first year and nothing broke in the first year and then upgraded to new car for 2016 although my old car ran this year without trouble.
Used cars can be had from about £17k.
Do one of their trial days.They do them throughout the year at a few circuits. I did Silverstone GP and when we finished with the SR1, they let me loose in the then brand new SR3rsx for 10 laps. Once you have tried it you wont want anything lesser!
Ps. You mentioned Gt4 ,have a look at the lap times the gt3s and 4s were doing at Silverstone GP in the GT cup . My lap time in the Radical challenge,in the little Sr1 , on the same day, would have qualified me 14th in the gt, in front of the aston gt4s, ginettas and 997 and was only 2 seconds off the two McLaren 650S', and I was plagued by SR3s and Blue flags all day; like I said , it would be hard to go quicker for the money.
Used cars can be had from about £17k.
Do one of their trial days.They do them throughout the year at a few circuits. I did Silverstone GP and when we finished with the SR1, they let me loose in the then brand new SR3rsx for 10 laps. Once you have tried it you wont want anything lesser!
Ps. You mentioned Gt4 ,have a look at the lap times the gt3s and 4s were doing at Silverstone GP in the GT cup . My lap time in the Radical challenge,in the little Sr1 , on the same day, would have qualified me 14th in the gt, in front of the aston gt4s, ginettas and 997 and was only 2 seconds off the two McLaren 650S', and I was plagued by SR3s and Blue flags all day; like I said , it would be hard to go quicker for the money.
Edited by Gc285 on Thursday 13th October 20:39
If you want faster lap times you need exposed wheels - single seaters - F3 Cup is the quickest in the amateur realm.
At Snetterton - fastest GT Cup laptime was a 1:48.932 by Jordan Witt's monster Bentley (value £150k+???)
fastest F3 Cup time of weekend was a 1:42.971 by Paul Dagg, an Irish guy who hadn't driven Snetterton before the weekend, or the car he was driving.
fastest Monoposto F3 time was 1:48.757, in a car thats just been put up for sale at £ 22.5k
At Snetterton - fastest GT Cup laptime was a 1:48.932 by Jordan Witt's monster Bentley (value £150k+???)
fastest F3 Cup time of weekend was a 1:42.971 by Paul Dagg, an Irish guy who hadn't driven Snetterton before the weekend, or the car he was driving.
fastest Monoposto F3 time was 1:48.757, in a car thats just been put up for sale at £ 22.5k
What's an "OK budget"?
4 years ago it cost £60k for a shared rented drive in a Ginetta G50 in British GT4 with no testing or insurance etc. I bet it's significantly north of that now!
A year in the Porsche Club is about £60k now, plus the car purchase.
But there are a lot of much cheaper series where you can still enjoy yourself. I probably spend £5-6 K pa to race 6-7 times a year in CSCC 40 min races, sharing with another driver in my car. And probably the quickest racing I have ever done, whilst being the cheapest as well, is in Monoposto 1800 in a Vauxhall Jumior single seater.
There is some good advice on here, but we all have our own bias in one way or another. My advice is not to worry about ending up in GT3 etc and just do a year in, say Caterhams, or Ginetta GT5 with a team that provides driver coaching and see where you are at the end of the year. Just race for fun, and if you are good enough and can afford it, progress from there. You will son find out whether GT3 is a realistic ambition!
If it isn't, don't give up, you can still race for fun!
I guess I'm a 24 handicap club racing driver and will never win anything, and can't really afford to race as much as I'd like. But I'm still addicted to it and still love it, that's all that matters in the end.
4 years ago it cost £60k for a shared rented drive in a Ginetta G50 in British GT4 with no testing or insurance etc. I bet it's significantly north of that now!
A year in the Porsche Club is about £60k now, plus the car purchase.
But there are a lot of much cheaper series where you can still enjoy yourself. I probably spend £5-6 K pa to race 6-7 times a year in CSCC 40 min races, sharing with another driver in my car. And probably the quickest racing I have ever done, whilst being the cheapest as well, is in Monoposto 1800 in a Vauxhall Jumior single seater.
There is some good advice on here, but we all have our own bias in one way or another. My advice is not to worry about ending up in GT3 etc and just do a year in, say Caterhams, or Ginetta GT5 with a team that provides driver coaching and see where you are at the end of the year. Just race for fun, and if you are good enough and can afford it, progress from there. You will son find out whether GT3 is a realistic ambition!
If it isn't, don't give up, you can still race for fun!
I guess I'm a 24 handicap club racing driver and will never win anything, and can't really afford to race as much as I'd like. But I'm still addicted to it and still love it, that's all that matters in the end.
Edited by andy97 on Saturday 15th October 13:43
Follow Ayrton Senna:
"For those who like racing, I advise the karting, and to do it with love and dedication"
A few grand buys you a KZ2 kart, a few grand more lets you race it all season. If you're good enough at driving and are on new tires every race you'll end up at the pointy end soon.
"For those who like racing, I advise the karting, and to do it with love and dedication"
A few grand buys you a KZ2 kart, a few grand more lets you race it all season. If you're good enough at driving and are on new tires every race you'll end up at the pointy end soon.
As a couple of other posts have touched on, it's not just the cost of running the car you have to bear in mind.
If you're running your own car, you'll need transportation to each circuit, whether that's through a company, or by yourself. If doing it yourself, you'll need a trailer and tow vehicle, then somewhere to stow and work on the car while not racing.
Even if going the supported route, you'll still need transport to and accomodation at some circuits. Might sound like small potatoes, but one or two nights for every meet soon adds up. You'll find a lot of drivers own a motorhome to cut down on costs.
If you're running your own car, you'll need transportation to each circuit, whether that's through a company, or by yourself. If doing it yourself, you'll need a trailer and tow vehicle, then somewhere to stow and work on the car while not racing.
Even if going the supported route, you'll still need transport to and accomodation at some circuits. Might sound like small potatoes, but one or two nights for every meet soon adds up. You'll find a lot of drivers own a motorhome to cut down on costs.
Or:
Hire a trailer for the weekend, around 80-100 quid but you'll need the tow vehicle first of course.
Camp. Lots do this, I did at every race. I offloaded the car and put the tent on the trailer so it could be tied down easily. Also keeps off the mud and puddles. Inflated a mattress and slept like a baby. Important, especially after 8hour drives!
Some have an enclosed trailer with awnings etc that they kip in but these are mega bucks.
It can be done on a budget but you might sacrifice some comfort.
Hire a trailer for the weekend, around 80-100 quid but you'll need the tow vehicle first of course.
Camp. Lots do this, I did at every race. I offloaded the car and put the tent on the trailer so it could be tied down easily. Also keeps off the mud and puddles. Inflated a mattress and slept like a baby. Important, especially after 8hour drives!
Some have an enclosed trailer with awnings etc that they kip in but these are mega bucks.
It can be done on a budget but you might sacrifice some comfort.
A fully supported car with an experienced team in something like VWCUP will be around 4k per race including tyres.Then you need to add personal transport,hotels.fuel.damage.entry fees.not to mention testing if you want to be competitive and have a set up for the weekend.
GT racing is another level all together.
But if you have the money i thoroughly recommend it : D
GT racing is another level all together.
But if you have the money i thoroughly recommend it : D
Edited by Jamesp24 on Tuesday 1st November 19:33
As I don't know which part of the country you are in I cannot tell if this is relevant or not.
Castle Coombe have their own racing series, all the rounds are at Coombe and there are 4 sets of regs for Forumla ford, saloons, GT and sports racers
details here
http://www.ccracingclub.co.uk/
If you live nearby then you would save the accommodation costs and have reduced travel costs compared to a multi venue championship.
if you are not local then maybe a track nearer you does similar
Castle Coombe have their own racing series, all the rounds are at Coombe and there are 4 sets of regs for Forumla ford, saloons, GT and sports racers
details here
http://www.ccracingclub.co.uk/
If you live nearby then you would save the accommodation costs and have reduced travel costs compared to a multi venue championship.
if you are not local then maybe a track nearer you does similar
Thanks everyone for your advice - all extremely helpful.
I think after careful deliberation - the Ginetta path seems most suitable. Having driven the G40 car a number of times this year it really does give you that miniture GT Car feeling and offers a pretty good ladder providing your budget allows. Also at a novice level you are already running support races at British GT weekends so I guess the sense of occasion is there which will help with sponsors as you go up the series. A couple of 1000 here and there will at least pay for some tyres amd brakes - every little helps.
With GRDC for the money I would prefer to be out on track a little more, but that means I have more time for track day after track day to practice... Helps that the G40 is a perfect track day toy!
I think after careful deliberation - the Ginetta path seems most suitable. Having driven the G40 car a number of times this year it really does give you that miniture GT Car feeling and offers a pretty good ladder providing your budget allows. Also at a novice level you are already running support races at British GT weekends so I guess the sense of occasion is there which will help with sponsors as you go up the series. A couple of 1000 here and there will at least pay for some tyres amd brakes - every little helps.
With GRDC for the money I would prefer to be out on track a little more, but that means I have more time for track day after track day to practice... Helps that the G40 is a perfect track day toy!
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