Lewis Hamilton
Discussion
C70R said:
I really don't understand how anyone can be so immensely critical of Nico Rosberg. He's been a very worthy and competitive teammate for two multiple world champions, and has (at various times) held a healthy lead in the WDC. Of course he gets the benefit of the best car on the grid, but when was that ever not the case with a championship leader?
While he might lack the last couple of percentage points of decision-making and ruthlessness, history will look kindly upon Nico as a very talented driver in a good car.
It's easy to overlook the fact that he's won more races than a whole host of "greats", including both Hills, Hakkinen and Raikonnen. No average driver, no matter how good the car (c.f. Barrichello and Massa) gets to 12th in the all-time wins list.
Another way of presenting it is that all those greats drivers have less race wins which one might equate to less time in superior cars/ less superior cars, but have all managed to use what they had avalible to be champions. While he might lack the last couple of percentage points of decision-making and ruthlessness, history will look kindly upon Nico as a very talented driver in a good car.
It's easy to overlook the fact that he's won more races than a whole host of "greats", including both Hills, Hakkinen and Raikonnen. No average driver, no matter how good the car (c.f. Barrichello and Massa) gets to 12th in the all-time wins list.
Edited by C70R on Friday 14th October 11:11
Most race wins of a non champ isnt something to gloat about...
hairyben said:
C70R said:
I really don't understand how anyone can be so immensely critical of Nico Rosberg. He's been a very worthy and competitive teammate for two multiple world champions, and has (at various times) held a healthy lead in the WDC. Of course he gets the benefit of the best car on the grid, but when was that ever not the case with a championship leader?
While he might lack the last couple of percentage points of decision-making and ruthlessness, history will look kindly upon Nico as a very talented driver in a good car.
It's easy to overlook the fact that he's won more races than a whole host of "greats", including both Hills, Hakkinen and Raikonnen. No average driver, no matter how good the car (c.f. Barrichello and Massa) gets to 12th in the all-time wins list.
Another way of presenting it is that all those greats drivers have less race wins which one might equate to less time in superior cars/ less superior cars, but have all managed to use what they had avalible to be champions. While he might lack the last couple of percentage points of decision-making and ruthlessness, history will look kindly upon Nico as a very talented driver in a good car.
It's easy to overlook the fact that he's won more races than a whole host of "greats", including both Hills, Hakkinen and Raikonnen. No average driver, no matter how good the car (c.f. Barrichello and Massa) gets to 12th in the all-time wins list.
Edited by C70R on Friday 14th October 11:11
Most race wins of a non champ isnt something to gloat about...
Me? I'm impressed by a guy who knows how to win races.
ETA - Don't want to come across as a "fanboy" here, because I'm certainly not "Team Nico". But I just find it a bit odd that such a good driver comes in for so much criticism.
Edited by C70R on Friday 14th October 12:04
coetzeeh said:
Ron Dennis was not the other driver. It was a miracle that alonso equalled Lewis on points given he had no support.
Of course not! All drivers know they are racing their team-mate first and foremost. RD merely said it. Both drivers had the same car, do you really think somebody like, oh I don't know, N Rosberg, could have beaten Alonso in is rookie year? I certainly do not. If you want to see how good Hamilton is, go and watch some of his early karting races.One I recall is where he had just moved up in class (at age 12) to race against 14-15 year-olds. Due to a technical problem he qualified last for the final. He won it.
C70R said:
I really don't understand how anyone can be so immensely critical of Nico Rosberg. He's been a very worthy and competitive teammate for two multiple world champions, and has (at various times) held a healthy lead in the WDC. Of course he gets the benefit of the best car on the grid, but when was that ever not the case with a championship leader?
While he might lack the last couple of percentage points of decision-making and ruthlessness, history will look kindly upon Nico as a very talented driver in a good car.
It's easy to overlook the fact that he's won more races than a whole host of "greats", including both Hills, Hakkinen and Raikonnen. No average driver, no matter how good the car (c.f. Barrichello and Massa) gets to 12th in the all-time wins list.
It's odd, I agree with you that Nico deserves more credit..... but maybe even more odd to read the volume of criticism towards the 3 times WDC.While he might lack the last couple of percentage points of decision-making and ruthlessness, history will look kindly upon Nico as a very talented driver in a good car.
It's easy to overlook the fact that he's won more races than a whole host of "greats", including both Hills, Hakkinen and Raikonnen. No average driver, no matter how good the car (c.f. Barrichello and Massa) gets to 12th in the all-time wins list.
Edited by C70R on Friday 14th October 11:11
Hungrymc said:
C70R said:
I really don't understand how anyone can be so immensely critical of Nico Rosberg. He's been a very worthy and competitive teammate for two multiple world champions, and has (at various times) held a healthy lead in the WDC. Of course he gets the benefit of the best car on the grid, but when was that ever not the case with a championship leader?
While he might lack the last couple of percentage points of decision-making and ruthlessness, history will look kindly upon Nico as a very talented driver in a good car.
It's easy to overlook the fact that he's won more races than a whole host of "greats", including both Hills, Hakkinen and Raikonnen. No average driver, no matter how good the car (c.f. Barrichello and Massa) gets to 12th in the all-time wins list.
It's odd, I agree with you that Nico deserves more credit..... but maybe even more odd to read the volume of criticism towards the 3 times WDC.While he might lack the last couple of percentage points of decision-making and ruthlessness, history will look kindly upon Nico as a very talented driver in a good car.
It's easy to overlook the fact that he's won more races than a whole host of "greats", including both Hills, Hakkinen and Raikonnen. No average driver, no matter how good the car (c.f. Barrichello and Massa) gets to 12th in the all-time wins list.
Edited by C70R on Friday 14th October 11:11
Nico has been underrated for a long time. He's never been average or 'subpar'. Anyone thinking that is naive. But Hamilton has the edge. Perhaps WDC for Nico will be a fair representation of his partnership with Lewis. One WDC to Lewis's collection is about right. And I don't mean that sarcastically or as a put down.
There's no doubt that Nico isn't well liked - and that's not just in the uk; the worldwide crowds don't seem to like him. He comes across badly and certainly a bit 'birth right' sometimes. However, no birth right can get you to where he is; he's still had to dedicate his life to the craft and he should be rightfully respected for that.
As for Hamilton and someone saying that Ron basically sorted it for him and it was as easy as that... naive doesn't even cover it. Speak to anyone who saw him race as a kid. Speak to anyone who watched him in lower formulae... the reaction is always the same: He was very very very special indeed. Like it or not; that's the truth of the matter. Alonso has since said that Hamilton was truly special and the two time double WDC could not handle him or his talent.
In any case, Nico won't be an undeserving WDC. But it's not over yet
There's no doubt that Nico isn't well liked - and that's not just in the uk; the worldwide crowds don't seem to like him. He comes across badly and certainly a bit 'birth right' sometimes. However, no birth right can get you to where he is; he's still had to dedicate his life to the craft and he should be rightfully respected for that.
As for Hamilton and someone saying that Ron basically sorted it for him and it was as easy as that... naive doesn't even cover it. Speak to anyone who saw him race as a kid. Speak to anyone who watched him in lower formulae... the reaction is always the same: He was very very very special indeed. Like it or not; that's the truth of the matter. Alonso has since said that Hamilton was truly special and the two time double WDC could not handle him or his talent.
In any case, Nico won't be an undeserving WDC. But it's not over yet
KevinCamaroSS said:
coetzeeh said:
Ron Dennis was not the other driver. It was a miracle that alonso equalled Lewis on points given he had no support.
Of course not! All drivers know they are racing their team-mate first and foremost. RD merely said it. Both drivers had the same car, do you really think somebody like, oh I don't know, N Rosberg, could have beaten Alonso in is rookie year? I certainly do not. If you want to see how good Hamilton is, go and watch some of his early karting races.One I recall is where he had just moved up in class (at age 12) to race against 14-15 year-olds. Due to a technical problem he qualified last for the final. He won it.
Having McLaren behind you at karting level is going to get you some good equipment. It's almost laughable to think otherwise, I know i guy who raced in a Fiesta championship with Andy Neate, Andy spent the most on the car (around 40k) to get it to be the front runner. You can't compete with that.
Then theres the bending of the regulations etc to gain unfair advantages..........
tommunster10 said:
KevinCamaroSS said:
coetzeeh said:
Ron Dennis was not the other driver. It was a miracle that alonso equalled Lewis on points given he had no support.
Of course not! All drivers know they are racing their team-mate first and foremost. RD merely said it. Both drivers had the same car, do you really think somebody like, oh I don't know, N Rosberg, could have beaten Alonso in is rookie year? I certainly do not. If you want to see how good Hamilton is, go and watch some of his early karting races.One I recall is where he had just moved up in class (at age 12) to race against 14-15 year-olds. Due to a technical problem he qualified last for the final. He won it.
Having McLaren behind you at karting level is going to get you some good equipment. It's almost laughable to think otherwise, I know i guy who raced in a Fiesta championship with Andy Neate, Andy spent the most on the car (around 40k) to get it to be the front runner. You can't compete with that.
Then theres the bending of the regulations etc to gain unfair advantages..........
him; the pressure to stay consistent and on song would have been extraordinary. Ron didn't see some random kid queuing up with a sweetie bag at Woolworths and say 'YOU! You shall be my next superstar!'. Hamilton has had no more backing than many of the drivers you see on the grid. Why does it even get mentioned? Bizarre. As I said before; Vettel was backed by Red Bull from very early on. Never gets brought up.
LDN said:
Hamilton has had no more backing than many of the drivers you see on the grid. Why does it even get mentioned? Bizarre.
You are absolutely correct. Everyone who gets to F1 has had help of one sort or another. I think it gets mentioned in respect of Lewis because he sometimes alludes to his teammate coming from a background of privilige, as opposed to him coming 'Straight Outa Stevenage' as the modern chaps say Rosberg's dad was a highly successful sportsman. I cannot see any problem with a high-achieving dad supporting his son in his own ambitions to become successful in sport. But there are those on here who sneer at this - maybe PH is being infiltrated by envious communists - I don't know
Maybe it is just something nasty to say about their favourite driver's opponent. I cannot imagine any of these people denying their own kids any opportunity if it were within their power to assist, but, for Rosberg, somehow it is wrong.When the red lights go out, both Lewis and Nico prove themselves on their own individual merit, and both are doing it rather spectacularly well.
deadslow said:
LDN said:
Hamilton has had no more backing than many of the drivers you see on the grid. Why does it even get mentioned? Bizarre.
You are absolutely correct. Everyone who gets to F1 has had help of one sort or another. I think it gets mentioned in respect of Lewis because he sometimes alludes to his teammate coming from a background of privilige, as opposed to him coming 'Straight Outa Stevenage' as the modern chaps say Rosberg's dad was a highly successful sportsman. I cannot see any problem with a high-achieving dad supporting his son in his own ambitions to become successful in sport. But there are those on here who sneer at this - maybe PH is being infiltrated by envious communists - I don't know
Maybe it is just something nasty to say about their favourite driver's opponent. I cannot imagine any of these people denying their own kids any opportunity if it were within their power to assist, but, for Rosberg, somehow it is wrong.When the red lights go out, both Lewis and Nico prove themselves on their own individual merit, and both are doing it rather spectacularly well.
LDN said:
deadslow said:
LDN said:
Hamilton has had no more backing than many of the drivers you see on the grid. Why does it even get mentioned? Bizarre.
You are absolutely correct. Everyone who gets to F1 has had help of one sort or another. I think it gets mentioned in respect of Lewis because he sometimes alludes to his teammate coming from a background of privilige, as opposed to him coming 'Straight Outa Stevenage' as the modern chaps say Rosberg's dad was a highly successful sportsman. I cannot see any problem with a high-achieving dad supporting his son in his own ambitions to become successful in sport. But there are those on here who sneer at this - maybe PH is being infiltrated by envious communists - I don't know
Maybe it is just something nasty to say about their favourite driver's opponent. I cannot imagine any of these people denying their own kids any opportunity if it were within their power to assist, but, for Rosberg, somehow it is wrong.When the red lights go out, both Lewis and Nico prove themselves on their own individual merit, and both are doing it rather spectacularly well.
LDN said:
Nico has been underrated for a long time. He's never been average or 'subpar'. Anyone thinking that is naive. But Hamilton has the edge. Perhaps WDC for Nico will be a fair representation of his partnership with Lewis. One WDC to Lewis's collection is about right. And I don't mean that sarcastically or as a put down.
There's no doubt that Nico isn't well liked - and that's not just in the uk; the worldwide crowds don't seem to like him. He comes across badly and certainly a bit 'birth right' sometimes. However, no birth right can get you to where he is; he's still had to dedicate his life to the craft and he should be rightfully respected for that.
As for Hamilton and someone saying that Ron basically sorted it for him and it was as easy as that... naive doesn't even cover it. Speak to anyone who saw him race as a kid. Speak to anyone who watched him in lower formulae... the reaction is always the same: He was very very very special indeed. Like it or not; that's the truth of the matter. Alonso has since said that Hamilton was truly special and the two time double WDC could not handle him or his talent.
In any case, Nico won't be an undeserving WDC. But it's not over yet
This post just about sums up my whole feeling of it. Well written LDNThere's no doubt that Nico isn't well liked - and that's not just in the uk; the worldwide crowds don't seem to like him. He comes across badly and certainly a bit 'birth right' sometimes. However, no birth right can get you to where he is; he's still had to dedicate his life to the craft and he should be rightfully respected for that.
As for Hamilton and someone saying that Ron basically sorted it for him and it was as easy as that... naive doesn't even cover it. Speak to anyone who saw him race as a kid. Speak to anyone who watched him in lower formulae... the reaction is always the same: He was very very very special indeed. Like it or not; that's the truth of the matter. Alonso has since said that Hamilton was truly special and the two time double WDC could not handle him or his talent.
In any case, Nico won't be an undeserving WDC. But it's not over yet
I'm reminded of Moss ( Stirling not Kate ) who never was World Champion but nowadays is regarded as better than most Champions. One BIG factor nowadays is that there are a lot more Grands Prix than there were back in the past, plus many never lived long enough to become Champion.
A lot of Lewis I like, an equal amount I dislike, but his performance to date in F1 Racing I would rate as sterling.
A lot of Lewis I like, an equal amount I dislike, but his performance to date in F1 Racing I would rate as sterling.
KevinCamaroSS said:
coetzeeh said:
Ron Dennis was not the other driver. It was a miracle that alonso equalled Lewis on points given he had no support.
Of course not! All drivers know they are racing their team-mate first and foremost. RD merely said it. Both drivers had the same car, do you really think somebody like, oh I don't know, N Rosberg, could have beaten Alonso in is rookie year? I certainly do not. If you want to see how good Hamilton is, go and watch some of his early karting races.One I recall is where he had just moved up in class (at age 12) to race against 14-15 year-olds. Due to a technical problem he qualified last for the final. He won it.
C70R said:
ETA - Don't want to come across as a "fanboy" here, because I'm certainly not "Team Nico". But I just find it a bit odd that such a good driver comes in for so much criticism.
If he wasn't up against Hamilton, standing between him and another title, I'm convinced there wouldn't be anything like the level of animosity and vitriol directed towards him. Unfortunately many people do a very poor job of hiding their jingoistic attitudes.LDN said:
tommunster10 said:
KevinCamaroSS said:
coetzeeh said:
Ron Dennis was not the other driver. It was a miracle that alonso equalled Lewis on points given he had no support.
Of course not! All drivers know they are racing their team-mate first and foremost. RD merely said it. Both drivers had the same car, do you really think somebody like, oh I don't know, N Rosberg, could have beaten Alonso in is rookie year? I certainly do not. If you want to see how good Hamilton is, go and watch some of his early karting races.One I recall is where he had just moved up in class (at age 12) to race against 14-15 year-olds. Due to a technical problem he qualified last for the final. He won it.
Having McLaren behind you at karting level is going to get you some good equipment. It's almost laughable to think otherwise, I know i guy who raced in a Fiesta championship with Andy Neate, Andy spent the most on the car (around 40k) to get it to be the front runner. You can't compete with that.
Then theres the bending of the regulations etc to gain unfair advantages..........
him; the pressure to stay consistent and on song would have been extraordinary. Ron didn't see some random kid queuing up with a sweetie bag at Woolworths and say 'YOU! You shall be my next superstar!'. Hamilton has had no more backing than many of the drivers you see on the grid. Why does it even get mentioned? Bizarre. As I said before; Vettel was backed by Red Bull from very early on. Never gets brought up.
But karting like any Motorsport is going to have the good karts the bad karts and the exceptional karts, your deluded to think otherwise.
Anyway I'd say pretty much any driver on the F1 grid could get that Merc to qualify at least 2nd such is its advantage. Yes even Palmer.
What will all these rabid Lewis fanboys that came out when he was winning in the Merc do when (hopefully) the rules allow other cars to be on the same page in performance and he's back scrabbling for 5ths 4ths and 3rds again.....
Edited by tommunster10 on Sunday 16th October 08:17
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