Lewis Hamilton

[Vaud]

Durzel said:

If he wasn't up against Hamilton, standing between him and another title, I'm convinced there wouldn't be anything like the level of animosity and vitriol directed towards him. Unfortunately many people do a very poor job of hiding their jingoistic attitudes.

By comparison I used to be a Schumacher fan (from pretty much his first race) and I had quite a "tribal" and biased view of F1.

Since he retired I discovered that as I no longer had a "favourite" driver (or team) I get a completely different enjoyment of F1 - I see different battles, different driver strengths and am frankly in awe of all of them.

Lewis is a staggering talent. So is Nico, for different reasons. Vettel is great, so is Kimi. etc...

[LDN]

tommunster10 said:

LDN said:

tommunster10 said:

KevinCamaroSS said:

coetzeeh said:

Ron Dennis was not the other driver. It was a miracle that alonso equalled Lewis on points given he had no support.

Of course not! All drivers know they are racing their team-mate first and foremost. RD merely said it. Both drivers had the same car, do you really think somebody like, oh I don't know, N Rosberg, could have beaten Alonso in is rookie year? I certainly do not. If you want to see how good Hamilton is, go and watch some of his early karting races.

One I recall is where he had just moved up in class (at age 12) to race against 14-15 year-olds. Due to a technical problem he qualified last for the final. He won it.

Having been around karting and Motorsport a lot this isn't something unheard of chap, karting also like Motorsport is as much about finding the edge in the equipment as it is driver talent, you pay the most you will get to the front 95% of the time.
Having McLaren behind you at karting level is going to get you some good equipment. It's almost laughable to think otherwise, I know i guy who raced in a Fiesta championship with Andy Neate, Andy spent the most on the car (around 40k) to get it to be the front runner. You can't compete with that.
Then theres the bending of the regulations etc to gain unfair advantages..........

You ignore all of the other kids who are being sponsored and aided by Motorsport foundations (of which there are many) and teams seeding talent. The grids were / are full of them. Lewis was not the only driver supported by a backer; not even the only driver supported by McLaren. The naivety on this thread speaks volumes about so called F1 fans... that being that, it's mostly your casual vouyer who's heard bits and bats and feels qualified to comment on these things. Hamilton was backed because he proved he was worthy. In fact there was a point in time where McLaren were going to drop
him; the pressure to stay consistent and on song would have been extraordinary. Ron didn't see some random kid queuing up with a sweetie bag at Woolworths and say 'YOU! You shall be my next superstar!'. Hamilton has had no more backing than many of the drivers you see on the grid. Why does it even get mentioned? Bizarre. As I said before; Vettel was backed by Red Bull from very early on. Never gets brought up.

That was my point, I said there is loads of kids like Lewis and coming from the back of a field or being 12 years old racing 14 year olds isn't unusual at all in karting and going from the back to the front isn't unusual either.
But karting like any Motorsport is going to have the good karts the bad karts and the exceptional karts, your deluded to think otherwise.

Anyway I'd say pretty much any driver on the F1 grid could get that Merc to qualify at least 2nd such is its advantage. Yes even Palmer.

What will all these rabid Lewis fanboys that came out when he was winning in the Merc do when (hopefully) the rules allow other cars to be on the same page in performance and he's back scrabbling for 5ths 4ths and 3rds again.....

Edited by tommunster10 on Sunday 16th October 08:17

I'm deluded why again? You'll have to break that down. I think you were trying to suggest Lewis had some weird advantage from early on. I clearly outlined why that's not the case and I think you've resorted to repeating yourself with no further explanation. Again for the slow coaches at the back; Lewis is not the only driver to have had support - and not even the only driver McLaren have supported. So where is this great advantage you say he had. He's where he is because he had a great kart? Deluded? If the shoe fits!

[swisstoni]

I'd leave him to fester in his own bile if I was you.

[anonymous-user]

LDN said:

I'm deluded why again? You'll have to break that down. I think you were trying to suggest Lewis had some weird advantage from early on. I clearly outlined why that's not the case and I think you've resorted to repeating yourself with no further explanation. Again for the slow coaches at the back; Lewis is not the only driver to have had support - and not even the only driver McLaren have supported. So where is this great advantage you say he had. He's where he is because he had a great kart? Deluded? If the shoe fits!

There was no weird advantage and Antony Hamilton did work hard to raise an extraordinarily high budget in those very early days but once Lewis was picked up by Martin Hines and then Ron, he certainly had the advantage of the best equipment and back up. That's simply a matter of fact.

And as said, coming from the back was nothing unusual. Lots did that on their day. Paffett was one who did it very regularly, but then again he also had a good edge with his Zip connections.

[LDN]

REALIST123 said:

LDN said:

I'm deluded why again? You'll have to break that down. I think you were trying to suggest Lewis had some weird advantage from early on. I clearly outlined why that's not the case and I think you've resorted to repeating yourself with no further explanation. Again for the slow coaches at the back; Lewis is not the only driver to have had support - and not even the only driver McLaren have supported. So where is this great advantage you say he had. He's where he is because he had a great kart? Deluded? If the shoe fits!

There was no weird advantage and Antony Hamilton did work hard to raise an extraordinarily high budget in those very early days but once Lewis was picked up by Martin Hines and then Ron, he certainly had the advantage of the best equipment and back up. That's simply a matter of fact.

Another noob I see. Were there no other kids with backing? Did McLaren back anyone else? Just Lewis? To maintain that support, did Lewis have to deliver consistently? How many kids have major backing but don't keep it? Why would that be?

Some here seem to want to believe that Hamilton was the only kid in Karting with backing from the mighty McLaren. Every other kid was hampered by crappy karts and therefore it was dead easy for Lewis to rise to the top...

Vettel had similar support from as early on, from Red Bull. Why no mention? How many top drivers were spotted early on and supported? Was Hamilton's journey and support extraordinary? No, it was normal I'm afraid. For that level of talent...

I don't know why I keep scraping the barrel here. Pistonheads. Stupidity matters.

[vonuber]

LDN said:

Another noob I see.

• and so on*

Do you run the fanclub?

Just out of interest, and I am no expert in karting have only done it a few times as a social thing, but isn't the weight of a driver quite a crucial aspect given the relative proportion they make up of the total weight? So a 2 year younger Hamilton would be significantly lighter than the older boys he was going up against?

[hairyben]

Durzel said:

If he wasn't up against Hamilton, standing between him and another title, I'm convinced there wouldn't be anything like the level of animosity and vitriol directed towards him. Unfortunately many people do a very poor job of hiding their jingoistic attitudes.

If all else fails its always very self satisfying to smear people as racists

Drossberg shares with marc marquez the feeling I'd rather neither win their respective championships, difference with MM is if/when he wins theres no question it wouldnt have been won on merit, deserved and fought for, and I'll say fair do's.

[SeeFive]

vonuber said:

Do you run the fanclub?

Just out of interest, and I am no expert in karting have only done it a few times as a social thing, but isn't the weight of a driver quite a crucial aspect given the relative proportion they make up of the total weight? So a 2 year younger Hamilton would be significantly lighter than the older boys he was going up against?

There is probably some truth in that. I was quicker than my brother whenI was 5 and he was 15. However, I was quicker than my brother when I was 22 as well, and more powerfully built than him by then too

Getting backing is a bit of luck of being recognised by the right people. Keeping that backing is the result of consistently good performances. In Hamilton's case I would say he had luck to have a very supportive family, got spotted and from then on made his own luck by developing his skills.

As has been said, many get a level of backing early on. A few rise to the highest levels in Motorsport even with that backing. Hamilton is one of those few, and that simply cannot be by luck alone, nor skill alone IMO.

I guess a question to ask is why did Mercedes choose to persuade Hamilton of their impending dominance and employ him over other drivers at the time? Just luck? Unlikely, probably on merit.

[Durzel]

hairyben said:

If all else fails its always very self satisfying to smear people as racists

Drossberg shares with marc marquez the feeling I'd rather neither win their respective championships, difference with MM is if/when he wins theres no question it wouldnt have been won on merit, deserved and fought for, and I'll say fair do's.

Where did I say that people with this attitude were being racist? Methinks the nuances have gone over your head.. patriotism =/= jingoism =/= racism

Would it be easier to grasp if i said that I believe certain people look at Hamilton through rose coloured specs because he is British, and disproportionately criticise Rosberg because he is an obstacle to the former's success?

If he was in a different team I don't think he'd be getting anything like this kind of vitriol. Hell, you could replace Rosberg with almost anyone else on the grid - so long as they weren't British themselves - and there would be a roughly equal amount of criticism found.

Obviously others will have a different opinion, including the inability to recognise or accept that they might be putting Hamilton on a pedestal because of his nationality.

EDIT: Re-reading the first part of this I sound a bit tttish, sorry about that.

Edited by Durzel on Sunday 16th October 14:21

[Wh00sher]

tommunster10 said:

What will all these rabid Lewis fanboys that came out when he was winning in the Merc do when (hopefully) the rules allow other cars to be on the same page in performance and he's back scrabbling for 5ths 4ths and 3rds again.....

The `rules` allow it now.

You can`t blame Merc for the fact they have done a better job than the others under the SAME set of regulations all the teams work to

That`s a bit off topic, apologies.

[Dermot O'Logical]

I'm sure that I'm not alone in admiring Lewis Hamilton's driving skills. In a 2016 Formula 1 car he's up there with Vettel, Alonso, Max Verstappen and Daniel Ricciardo.

It's what he does when he's out of the car. The incident which sparked the latest round of - shall we say active dislike - was Hamilton playing with his phone during the drivers' press conference in Japan last Thursday. It wasn't the first time that he has been rightly chastised for preferring to concentrate on his phone during the pre-race press conference which as I pointed out earlier is organised by the FIA prior to each Grand Prix, and attendance is mandatory. He isn't required to attend every such event, and they generally only last for 25 minutes.

Global sporting personalities have always live in the media spotlight and now with the aid of the cancer on society that is social media, the spotlight is accompanied by a microscope. In which case, anybody who has any sense will want to ensure that the image projected to the world is one which won't cause additional stress or angst which might make them lose their primary focus. Hamilton does appear to be trying to form a media persona to portray himself as being down wiv da kids. Then he commits a basic faux pas such as the incident at Wimbledon which saw him denied entry to the Royal Box for being improperly attired.

It shouldn't be too difficult to make an effort to avoid basic mistakes when the consequence of making yourself look a bit stupid will reverberate around social media and make headlines for hundreds of thousands to see. I can't see the lovely Britta Roeske letting Sebastian Vettel turn up at an event anywhere without having read the dress code. Which, I realise, implies that Seb needs a PA to help him organise his life, and Lewis is far too "street" for that. He's a multiple World Champion, and his appearances in public, even if they aren't formal, will be monitored and reported upon in detail. Having a good PA means never having to say sorry. He's 31, and the price of his fame (and fortune) is that he's public property. And in this day and age, the public have the ability to comment.

More than one Team Principal has commented on drivers who have been "in the system" since they were karting suffering from a phenomenon known as "delayed adolescence". They've missed out on a normal adolescence because they were otherwise occupied with being programmed to become racing drivers. Then, at some point, the teenage years that passed them by kick in.

Edited by Dermot O'Logical on Sunday 16th October 21:02

[Vaud]

Some very good points.

Some drivers, like Schumacher, Button and Alonso seemed to have built themselves very strong "external persona" that is a defence mechanism as well as a positive external image.... its layers of defence. In smaller sessions the guard comes down a bit...

[LDN]

vonuber said:

LDN said:

Another noob I see.

• and so on*

Do you run the fanclub?

Just out of interest, and I am no expert in karting have only done it a few times as a social thing, but isn't the weight of a driver quite a crucial aspect given the relative proportion they make up of the total weight? So a 2 year younger Hamilton would be significantly lighter than the older boys he was going up against?

I don't run the fanclub. Trust me... I have my own rants against LH but people saying he made it because he was picked by McLaren and supported no matter what, is simply thick. Like they haven't got a thousand other places to put their support. McLaren have supported many other drivers... a lot of which have done well. Some we will never hear of. There is this misguided idea that Lewis was supported more than anyone else. Which is bol*ocks.

As for the karting / weight thing. Yes, makes a huge difference - but at the level we are talking about, it will have been equalised by ballast. Even low rent karting championships do this. Your average arrive and drive corporate session won't of course.

For the record, I'm not hailing Lewis as the second coming, like some do on PH. He's not even at the top of my list of drivers I'd share a drink with. But people who try and undermine his talent and career by talking rubbish need the odd reality check now and again. Credit where credit is due should apply here. His rise though lower formulae was special... ask anyone who witnessed it. Sorry to the so called 'haters', it's just the way it is.

Edited by LDN on Sunday 16th October 23:52

[KevinCamaroSS]

tommunster10 said:

What will all these rabid Lewis fanboys that came out when he was winning in the Merc do when (hopefully) the rules allow other cars to be on the same page in performance and he's back scrabbling for 5ths 4ths and 3rds again.....

Do tell where I can find the two different sets of rules you are alluding to? I can only find one set of F1 rules that all teams adhere to.

[Vaud]

KevinCamaroSS said:

tommunster10 said:

What will all these rabid Lewis fanboys that came out when he was winning in the Merc do when (hopefully) the rules allow other cars to be on the same page in performance and he's back scrabbling for 5ths 4ths and 3rds again.....

Do tell where I can find the two different sets of rules you are alluding to? I can only find one set of F1 rules that all teams adhere to.

I think I understand the point, but the problem is that they have just change the regulations for 2017. What they should have done is left them as is, given the gap was closing from other teams.

That said, I wouldn't bet against Red Bull next year as being the challenger. The engine looks a lot better, and Newey with innovative aero...

[tommunster10]

KevinCamaroSS said:

tommunster10 said:

What will all these rabid Lewis fanboys that came out when he was winning in the Merc do when (hopefully) the rules allow other cars to be on the same page in performance and he's back scrabbling for 5ths 4ths and 3rds again.....

Do tell where I can find the two different sets of rules you are alluding to? I can only find one set of F1 rules that all teams adhere to.

Do you people even follow F1? They are amending regs and rules and it may possibly mean we have more than 2 drivers in same car fighting for the WDC in 2017:

How the 2017 rules will change F1 design:
http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2016/05/10/side-side-co...


Anyone who thinks BTW that having McLaren backing in karting won't give you an advantage is deluded and just so utterly obsessed with Lewis that they most likely believe he'd win in a Manor.... just clueless about Motorsport basically.
What were you doing when Seb was winning and Lewis spent most races bumping into Massa, just moaning about the Red Bull domination and how Seb just has the best car?
Or were you saying Seb was the best driver on the F1 grid?

[LDN]

tommunster10 said:

KevinCamaroSS said:

tommunster10 said:

What will all these rabid Lewis fanboys that came out when he was winning in the Merc do when (hopefully) the rules allow other cars to be on the same page in performance and he's back scrabbling for 5ths 4ths and 3rds again.....

Do tell where I can find the two different sets of rules you are alluding to? I can only find one set of F1 rules that all teams adhere to.

Do you people even follow F1? They are amending regs and rules and it may possibly mean we have more than 2 drivers in same car fighting for the WDC in 2017:

How the 2017 rules will change F1 design:
http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2016/05/10/side-side-co...


Anyone who thinks BTW that having McLaren backing in karting won't give you an advantage is deluded and just so utterly obsessed with Lewis that they most likely believe he'd win in a Manor.... just clueless about Motorsport basically.
What were you doing when Seb was winning and Lewis spent most races bumping into Massa, just moaning about the Red Bull domination and how Seb just has the best car?
Or were you saying Seb was the best driver on the F1 grid?

Where's the 'ignore' button again? Your own rule applies: why don't you consider Seb as having an advantage in Karting and his career as he had support from Red Bull??? Because he wasn't the only one maybe? Just as Lewis wasn't the only one to have had support from McLaren. Do you get it yet? Having support from McLaren is great and is better than not having it... but it's also earned; you do know that don't you? McLaren nearly dropped Lewis at one point also; it wasn't a free ride; he had to stay on song. I can't tel if you're as daft as two short planks or if it's a wind up.

[hairyben]

Durzel said:

Where did I say that people with this attitude were being racist? Methinks the nuances have gone over your head.. patriotism =/= jingoism =/= racism

Would it be easier to grasp if i said that I believe certain people look at Hamilton through rose coloured specs because he is British, and disproportionately criticise Rosberg because he is an obstacle to the former's success?

If he was in a different team I don't think he'd be getting anything like this kind of vitriol. Hell, you could replace Rosberg with almost anyone else on the grid - so long as they weren't British themselves - and there would be a roughly equal amount of criticism found.

Obviously others will have a different opinion, including the inability to recognise or accept that they might be putting Hamilton on a pedestal because of his nationality.

EDIT: Re-reading the first part of this I sound a bit tttish, sorry about that.

Edited by Durzel on Sunday 16th October 14:21

So a lot of people in a british motorsport forum favour the british world champion driver? Some to the point of sillyness? You think thats comment worthy? In other news, italian motorsport fans have a soft spot for red coloured cars.

What you miss in your navel gazing interpretation of events is while nico will get cold shouldered for being between the brit and another title, a lot of nico's flak is simply because hes a cypher, an unlikable, entitled, personality free, sociopathic slug. Even the germans dont like him.

You dont get the level of abuse nico gets just for being up against the brit, we watched coulthard get spanked by hakkinen, and were disappointed that such a damn fine journeyman driver was unfortunant enough to have one of the truely gifted drivers there when he had the car to do the job. We made webbar an honourary plucky brit then moaned and bhed when vettel lead him home 4 times but vettel had a slice of hate in these shores never had the level of derision rosberg gets, and so too barichello in '09, kovalinen in '08.

Some of the hate for rosberg reminds me more of that directed to schumacher and perhaps senna in their day, normally because talent aside they could be utter bds when it suited them.

[tommunster10]

LDN said:

tommunster10 said:

KevinCamaroSS said:

tommunster10 said:

What will all these rabid Lewis fanboys that came out when he was winning in the Merc do when (hopefully) the rules allow other cars to be on the same page in performance and he's back scrabbling for 5ths 4ths and 3rds again.....

Do tell where I can find the two different sets of rules you are alluding to? I can only find one set of F1 rules that all teams adhere to.

Do you people even follow F1? They are amending regs and rules and it may possibly mean we have more than 2 drivers in same car fighting for the WDC in 2017:

How the 2017 rules will change F1 design:
http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2016/05/10/side-side-co...


Anyone who thinks BTW that having McLaren backing in karting won't give you an advantage is deluded and just so utterly obsessed with Lewis that they most likely believe he'd win in a Manor.... just clueless about Motorsport basically.
What were you doing when Seb was winning and Lewis spent most races bumping into Massa, just moaning about the Red Bull domination and how Seb just has the best car?
Or were you saying Seb was the best driver on the F1 grid?

Where's the 'ignore' button again? Your own rule applies: why don't you consider Seb as having an advantage in Karting and his career as he had support from Red Bull??? Because he wasn't the only one maybe? Just as Lewis wasn't the only one to have had support from McLaren. Do you get it yet? Having support from McLaren is great and is better than not having it... but it's also earned; you do know that don't you? McLaren nearly dropped Lewis at one point also; it wasn't a free ride; he had to stay on song. I can't tel if you're as daft as two short planks or if it's a wind up.

I never said that Seb didn't have advantages, all F1 drivers have had advantages over many many people, be it money, backing, rich Dads, whole countries paying for them to represent etc etc..
It's only the more rabid Lewis fans who like to think he was walking the streets as an orphan and if he wins its him and if he loses it's the car.....
You say support is earned? There is tonnes of examples why that is total BS. Money can get you into F1.
You keep resorting to abuse which shows your spittle flecked rants are due to you being wrong, but so obsessed with Lewis as to render you absent of any balance or unbiased view points.
I'm not a rabid fan of any driver nor team so i can be objective, nut jobs who are obsessive one way can't be like that so assume anyone who disagrees is the same as them but with a different agenda, you think i'm the enemy as i must be a Nico fan, but i'm not I don't really care, so calm down get a grip man and stop wildly smashing your keyboard keys, its not really that important.

Edited by tommunster10 on Monday 17th October 13:12

[whatxd]

LDN said:

tommunster10 said:

KevinCamaroSS said:

tommunster10 said:

What will all these rabid Lewis fanboys that came out when he was winning in the Merc do when (hopefully) the rules allow other cars to be on the same page in performance and he's back scrabbling for 5ths 4ths and 3rds again.....

Do tell where I can find the two different sets of rules you are alluding to? I can only find one set of F1 rules that all teams adhere to.

Do you people even follow F1? They are amending regs and rules and it may possibly mean we have more than 2 drivers in same car fighting for the WDC in 2017:

How the 2017 rules will change F1 design:
http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2016/05/10/side-side-co...


Anyone who thinks BTW that having McLaren backing in karting won't give you an advantage is deluded and just so utterly obsessed with Lewis that they most likely believe he'd win in a Manor.... just clueless about Motorsport basically.
What were you doing when Seb was winning and Lewis spent most races bumping into Massa, just moaning about the Red Bull domination and how Seb just has the best car?
Or were you saying Seb was the best driver on the F1 grid?

Where's the 'ignore' button again? Your own rule applies: why don't you consider Seb as having an advantage in Karting and his career as he had support from Red Bull??? Because he wasn't the only one maybe? Just as Lewis wasn't the only one to have had support from McLaren. Do you get it yet? Having support from McLaren is great and is better than not having it... but it's also earned; you do know that don't you? McLaren nearly dropped Lewis at one point also; it wasn't a free ride; he had to stay on song. I can't tel if you're as daft as two short planks or if it's a wind up.

@tommunster10 I dislike Hamilton as much as anyone but to suggest he lucked his way to the top of F1 is bonkers. He earned his place at McLaren as a boy, was good enough to keep it as he grew up and their decision to promote him was vindicated. There are plenty of boys behind the scenes who get the same opportunity (at multiple companies, not just McLaren) but they don't make it, hence why you never hear about them.

There are plenty of issues you can criticise Hamilton about but his McLaren upbringing isn't one of them.