Lewis Hamilton

TOPIC CLOSED
TOPIC CLOSED
Author
Discussion

37chevy

3,280 posts

155 months

Monday 24th October 2016
quotequote all
sc0tt said:
rofl

Claps hands.
why thankyou...glad to entertain :-p someone has got to lighten the mood around here!

37chevy

3,280 posts

155 months

Monday 24th October 2016
quotequote all
tommunster10 said:
Watching the 'race' last night and after Cal's win down under, I was thinking about the Merc dominance ovet the last 3 years and it's pretty crazy to think that had Lewis not of gone to Merc and they had partnered Nico with a young clear No2 driver or say an older wiser clear No2 we would now be referring to Nico as 3 times World champion now....
It's nuts really. Either shows Nico was unlucky Lewis joined or just simply shows how easy you can rack up WDC if the car is so much better than everyone else's.
So long as there are not car troubles it's Merc 1-2 all day long. Nico could just sit behind Lewis all the way to his first WDC now....
Thank God for MotoGP.
same with Vettel and Schumacher...we could be talking about barrichello and webber being multiple champions now....its been quite a while since we had a genuine second car as a title contender...probably 2007-2008 really

NM62

952 posts

149 months

Monday 24th October 2016
quotequote all
tommunster10 said:
Watching the 'race' last night and after Cal's win down under, I was thinking about the Merc dominance ovet the last 3 years and it's pretty crazy to think that had Lewis not of gone to Merc and they had partnered Nico with a young clear No2 driver or say an older wiser clear No2 we would now be referring to Nico as 3 times World champion now....
It's nuts really. Either shows Nico was unlucky Lewis joined or just simply shows how easy you can rack up WDC if the car is so much better than everyone else's.
So long as there are not car troubles it's Merc 1-2 all day long. Nico could just sit behind Lewis all the way to his first WDC now....
Thank God for MotoGP.
I quite like watching the MotoGP for the close racing and the commentators - however the Championship seems to have been a bit of a two horse race for the past 5 years with either Lorenzo / Marquez winning it - don't really follow it that closely so I don't know how tight it has been those two and other riders such as Rossi / Hayden etc. Just a perception from a very casual observer.

StevieBee

12,795 posts

254 months

Monday 24th October 2016
quotequote all
tommunster10 said:
Watching the 'race' last night and after Cal's win down under, I was thinking about the Merc dominance ovet the last 3 years and it's pretty crazy to think that had Lewis not of gone to Merc and they had partnered Nico with a young clear No2 driver or say an older wiser clear No2 we would now be referring to Nico as 3 times World champion now....
It's nuts really. Either shows Nico was unlucky Lewis joined or just simply shows how easy you can rack up WDC if the car is so much better than everyone else's.
So long as there are not car troubles it's Merc 1-2 all day long. Nico could just sit behind Lewis all the way to his first WDC now....
Thank God for MotoGP.
I don't think you can be as clear cut on this.

How much of an influence has Hamilton had on Rosberg's driving? Would a younger, less adept driver have given Rosberg the impetus to up his game? How much of the cars' performance is down to the insight and inputs Hamilton has made....?

Would Eddie Irvine have been a multiple WDC had Ferrari paired him with Pedro Diniz and not Schumacher? I doubt it.


tommunster10

1,128 posts

90 months

Monday 24th October 2016
quotequote all
StevieBee said:
tommunster10 said:
Watching the 'race' last night and after Cal's win down under, I was thinking about the Merc dominance ovet the last 3 years and it's pretty crazy to think that had Lewis not of gone to Merc and they had partnered Nico with a young clear No2 driver or say an older wiser clear No2 we would now be referring to Nico as 3 times World champion now....
It's nuts really. Either shows Nico was unlucky Lewis joined or just simply shows how easy you can rack up WDC if the car is so much better than everyone else's.
So long as there are not car troubles it's Merc 1-2 all day long. Nico could just sit behind Lewis all the way to his first WDC now....
Thank God for MotoGP.
I don't think you can be as clear cut on this.

How much of an influence has Hamilton had on Rosberg's driving? Would a younger, less adept driver have given Rosberg the impetus to up his game? How much of the cars' performance is down to the insight and inputs Hamilton has made....?

Would Eddie Irvine have been a multiple WDC had Ferrari paired him with Pedro Diniz and not Schumacher? I doubt it.
But the point is it wouldn't matter as Nico would win regardless such is the Merc dominance. Nico hasn't had to up his game to come 2nd he's possibly up'd it to get closer to Lewis, but then he's been close to Lewis pretty much anyway for the get go.
In Vettel and Red Bulls pomp other teams had chances, but in Merc era its only if Merc break down or crash.

And the person that said MotoGP has been a 2 horse race for years hasn't got a clue, but even if they were right at least it was a 2 horse race with each on different bikes!

Again though i watch the race and try to convince myself its fun watching 2 team mates 'battle' but it's just not. Now Nico just needs to line up behind Lewis and grind it out.

Someone above asked if Eddie Irvine would of been WDC had he been paired with Pedro Dinz in the ferrari, maybe not but he'd of been multiple WDC had he been in the current Merc.



cjm

516 posts

267 months

Monday 24th October 2016
quotequote all
Has there been a race this year with two drivers fighting for the lead? Someone had pulled out a lead a the start and held it as everyone manages tyres. There has been some good overtaking and some good racing, just none of it happening at the front.

ZX10R NIN

27,494 posts

124 months

Monday 24th October 2016
quotequote all
It's not just the tyres they manage it's the fuel & brakes too all are marginal these days, so while it's easy to pick on the tyres all the teams are running marginal, also if you think the racing is pretty much set in stone now wait until 2017 with the aero cars.

Hungrymc

6,642 posts

136 months

Monday 24th October 2016
quotequote all
cjm said:
Has there been a race this year with two drivers fighting for the lead? Someone had pulled out a lead a the start and held it as everyone manages tyres. There has been some good overtaking and some good racing, just none of it happening at the front.
Its been a disappointing year from this respect.

I'm hoping that the final 3 races are monumental battles at the front and the championship is taken down to the wire.

ZX10R NIN

27,494 posts

124 months

Monday 24th October 2016
quotequote all
It won't be why would Nico fight with Lewis & then open himself up to the possibility of damage or a DNF for him or Lewis.

williamp

19,213 posts

272 months

Monday 24th October 2016
quotequote all
cjm said:
Has there been a race this year with two drivers fighting for the lead? Someone had pulled out a lead a the start and held it as everyone manages tyres. There has been some good overtaking and some good racing, just none of it happening at the front.
first 30 seconds in Spain?

LDN

8,905 posts

202 months

Monday 24th October 2016
quotequote all
tommunster10 said:
Watching the 'race' last night and after Cal's win down under, I was thinking about the Merc dominance ovet the last 3 years and it's pretty crazy to think that had Lewis not of gone to Merc and they had partnered Nico with a young clear No2 driver or say an older wiser clear No2 we would now be referring to Nico as 3 times World champion now....
Not at all... depends who Nico had been partnered with (because, remember, Merc let them race) - and I don't think Rosberg is 'clear' 2nd driver to Hamilton so Hamilton hasn't had the easy ride you're suggesting Rosberg would have. At least Merc have let them race. Remember Schuey and his 'clear' number 1 status... infinetley worse than what we have now. Being in the right car has ALWAYS been an advantage. It's nothing new...

tommunster10

1,128 posts

90 months

Monday 24th October 2016
quotequote all
LDN said:
tommunster10 said:
Watching the 'race' last night and after Cal's win down under, I was thinking about the Merc dominance ovet the last 3 years and it's pretty crazy to think that had Lewis not of gone to Merc and they had partnered Nico with a young clear No2 driver or say an older wiser clear No2 we would now be referring to Nico as 3 times World champion now....
Not at all... depends who Nico had been partnered with (because, remember, Merc let them race) - and I don't think Rosberg is 'clear' 2nd driver to Hamilton so Hamilton hasn't had the easy ride you're suggesting Rosberg would have. At least Merc have let them race. Remember Schuey and his 'clear' number 1 status... infinetley worse than what we have now. Being in the right car has ALWAYS been an advantage. It's nothing new...
Hang on i set the terms in my post and clearly said if Nico was clear No 1 driver he would clearly of been 3 times WDC by now, it's irrefutable ... so it's a crazy thought really, same as if the Merc dominates for the next 4-5 years Lewis could catch Schumacher or if Nico wins a few more he could still be up there with Senna's tally!
Being in the right car is an advantage, see 4 time WDC Vettel struggling to win in a Ferrari, or 2 time WDC Alonso cheering to grab a 5th place!
But there's having an advantage then there's driving the Merc F1 car.. it's like being in a ploughing competition using a John Deer as every one else is using spades...

LDN

8,905 posts

202 months

Monday 24th October 2016
quotequote all
tommunster10 said:
LDN said:
tommunster10 said:
Watching the 'race' last night and after Cal's win down under, I was thinking about the Merc dominance ovet the last 3 years and it's pretty crazy to think that had Lewis not of gone to Merc and they had partnered Nico with a young clear No2 driver or say an older wiser clear No2 we would now be referring to Nico as 3 times World champion now....
Not at all... depends who Nico had been partnered with (because, remember, Merc let them race) - and I don't think Rosberg is 'clear' 2nd driver to Hamilton so Hamilton hasn't had the easy ride you're suggesting Rosberg would have. At least Merc have let them race. Remember Schuey and his 'clear' number 1 status... infinetley worse than what we have now. Being in the right car has ALWAYS been an advantage. It's nothing new...
Hang on i set the terms in my post and clearly said if Nico was clear No 1 driver he would clearly of been 3 times WDC by now, it's irrefutable ... so it's a crazy thought really, same as if the Merc dominates for the next 4-5 years Lewis could catch Schumacher or if Nico wins a few more he could still be up there with Senna's tally!
Being in the right car is an advantage, see 4 time WDC Vettel struggling to win in a Ferrari, or 2 time WDC Alonso cheering to grab a 5th place!
But there's having an advantage then there's driving the Merc F1 car.. it's like being in a ploughing competition using a John Deer as every one else is using spades...
Agreed... Merc advantage is crazy... almost another formula... but what would you have them do? It's a bit of a non-story; best car equals WDC, almost always. There's been a few champs that weren't the best on the grid. Many will argue that Rosberg is one of them (should he seal it this year) - nobody ever said that about Hamilton though, or Alonso. The racers / drivers all know. It's why Alonso still gets banded around as the best out there despite being at sea for a few years! But he'll never win in that McLaren. So again, I'm not sure the point being made. Cars flatter drivers. Does that mean Hamilton and Rosberg are st? And it's all the car? No. Otherwise, why did Mercedes move heaven and earth to get Lewis to join? They could have saved some cash.

As I've said before; these points get brought up as though it's new news. Best car equals WDC shocker!

Murph7355

37,651 posts

255 months

Monday 24th October 2016
quotequote all
It'll only take an evening up of the retirements this season to bring the championship right back on smile

swisstoni

16,850 posts

278 months

Monday 24th October 2016
quotequote all
LDN said:
tommunster10 said:
LDN said:
tommunster10 said:
Watching the 'race' last night and after Cal's win down under, I was thinking about the Merc dominance ovet the last 3 years and it's pretty crazy to think that had Lewis not of gone to Merc and they had partnered Nico with a young clear No2 driver or say an older wiser clear No2 we would now be referring to Nico as 3 times World champion now....
Not at all... depends who Nico had been partnered with (because, remember, Merc let them race) - and I don't think Rosberg is 'clear' 2nd driver to Hamilton so Hamilton hasn't had the easy ride you're suggesting Rosberg would have. At least Merc have let them race. Remember Schuey and his 'clear' number 1 status... infinetley worse than what we have now. Being in the right car has ALWAYS been an advantage. It's nothing new...
Hang on i set the terms in my post and clearly said if Nico was clear No 1 driver he would clearly of been 3 times WDC by now, it's irrefutable ... so it's a crazy thought really, same as if the Merc dominates for the next 4-5 years Lewis could catch Schumacher or if Nico wins a few more he could still be up there with Senna's tally!
Being in the right car is an advantage, see 4 time WDC Vettel struggling to win in a Ferrari, or 2 time WDC Alonso cheering to grab a 5th place!
But there's having an advantage then there's driving the Merc F1 car.. it's like being in a ploughing competition using a John Deer as every one else is using spades...
Agreed... Merc advantage is crazy... almost another formula... but what would you have them do? It's a bit of a non-story; best car equals WDC, almost always. There's been a few champs that weren't the best on the grid. Many will argue that Rosberg is one of them (should he seal it this year) - nobody ever said that about Hamilton though, or Alonso. The racers / drivers all know. It's why Alonso still gets banded around as the best out there despite being at sea for a few years! But he'll never win in that McLaren. So again, I'm not sure the point being made. Cars flatter drivers. Does that mean Hamilton and Rosberg are st? And it's all the car? No. Otherwise, why did Mercedes move heaven and earth to get Lewis to join? They could have saved some cash.

As I've said before; these points get brought up as though it's new news. Best car equals WDC shocker!
There's almost always a team who have got an advantage over the rest. It just works out that way.
We should be thankful that Hamilton did not insist on No1 driver status (as he surely could have, as per Schumacher, Vettel and Alonso before him) and that Mercedes do not adopt a similar approach to Ferrari and Red Bull.

Otherwise the last few years of Merc dominance would have been very dull indeed and there would already be a space in Hamilton's trophy cabinet with WDC 2016 written on it.

LDN

8,905 posts

202 months

Monday 24th October 2016
quotequote all
swisstoni said:
LDN said:
tommunster10 said:
LDN said:
tommunster10 said:
Watching the 'race' last night and after Cal's win down under, I was thinking about the Merc dominance ovet the last 3 years and it's pretty crazy to think that had Lewis not of gone to Merc and they had partnered Nico with a young clear No2 driver or say an older wiser clear No2 we would now be referring to Nico as 3 times World champion now....
Not at all... depends who Nico had been partnered with (because, remember, Merc let them race) - and I don't think Rosberg is 'clear' 2nd driver to Hamilton so Hamilton hasn't had the easy ride you're suggesting Rosberg would have. At least Merc have let them race. Remember Schuey and his 'clear' number 1 status... infinetley worse than what we have now. Being in the right car has ALWAYS been an advantage. It's nothing new...
Hang on i set the terms in my post and clearly said if Nico was clear No 1 driver he would clearly of been 3 times WDC by now, it's irrefutable ... so it's a crazy thought really, same as if the Merc dominates for the next 4-5 years Lewis could catch Schumacher or if Nico wins a few more he could still be up there with Senna's tally!
Being in the right car is an advantage, see 4 time WDC Vettel struggling to win in a Ferrari, or 2 time WDC Alonso cheering to grab a 5th place!
But there's having an advantage then there's driving the Merc F1 car.. it's like being in a ploughing competition using a John Deer as every one else is using spades...
Agreed... Merc advantage is crazy... almost another formula... but what would you have them do? It's a bit of a non-story; best car equals WDC, almost always. There's been a few champs that weren't the best on the grid. Many will argue that Rosberg is one of them (should he seal it this year) - nobody ever said that about Hamilton though, or Alonso. The racers / drivers all know. It's why Alonso still gets banded around as the best out there despite being at sea for a few years! But he'll never win in that McLaren. So again, I'm not sure the point being made. Cars flatter drivers. Does that mean Hamilton and Rosberg are st? And it's all the car? No. Otherwise, why did Mercedes move heaven and earth to get Lewis to join? They could have saved some cash.

As I've said before; these points get brought up as though it's new news. Best car equals WDC shocker!
There's almost always a team who have got an advantage over the rest. It just works out that way.
We should be thankful that Hamilton did not insist on No1 driver status (as he surely could have, as per Schumacher, Vettel and Alonso before him) and that Mercedes do not adopt a similar approach to Ferrari and Red Bull.

Otherwise the last few years of Merc dominance would have been very dull indeed and there would already be a space in Hamilton's trophy cabinet with WDC 2016 written on it.
Very true. And worth noting. Hamilton has never asked for number one status in any team he has been in. Whereas, Schuey and Alonso have. Vettel, I'm not so sure he asked for it, whether he enjoyed that status or not.

glazbagun

14,259 posts

196 months

Monday 24th October 2016
quotequote all
I was just reading about Schumacher vs Rosberg and noticed that Schumacher, too, seemed to suffer a lot more mechanical failures, and twice the number retirements of Rosberg during their years together. Could it be that there's something to his driving style (and disinclination to fight for every place) that helps him with consistent point hauls?

https://www.jamesallenonf1.com/2012/11/schumacher-...

Hungrymc

6,642 posts

136 months

Tuesday 25th October 2016
quotequote all
ZX10R NIN said:
It won't be why would Nico fight with Lewis & then open himself up to the possibility of damage or a DNF for him or Lewis.
I agree that it's unlikely.

But Nico hasn't won anything yet. He still has the possibility of a DNF or other issue hanging over his head and may still have in the final round. He really doesn't want Lewis within 25 points at the start of the last race. All he has to do is maintain the current points gap. So yes he has one hand on the title, but he can't quite afford to sit back and follow Lewis home for the next two races as everyone seems to make out.

If he gets the opportunity to race Lewis, he'd be foolish not to take it in my eyes. Particularly as Lewis needs to keep it clean as well. Anything could happen yet.

tommunster10

1,128 posts

90 months

Tuesday 25th October 2016
quotequote all
swisstoni said:
There's almost always a team who have got an advantage over the rest. It just works out that way.
We should be thankful that Hamilton did not insist on No1 driver status (as he surely could have, as per Schumacher, Vettel and Alonso before him) and that Mercedes do not adopt a similar approach to Ferrari and Red Bull.

Otherwise the last few years of Merc dominance would have been very dull indeed and there would already be a space in Hamilton's trophy cabinet with WDC 2016 written on it.
I think this is where Merc played a blinder, granted they knew full well just how much better the Merc was which undoubtedly helped as when Red bull had Vettel there was others drivers/teams in with a shout unlike how it has been for last 3 years, so they had to be a bit more careful.
But yes Merc have for the most part avoided the "hate the best" that Red Bull and Vettel got. Which is due to letting them 'race' and not needing to use one as a back up driver No.2 like they did with Webber (for the most part).
Other factors are how great Toto is compared to say a Horner and also that they have Lewis. If Vettel was in that Merc and on WDC number 6 sticking his finger up after each win and pole I think people would be exploding with rage.
I think had Merc done a No1 driver and No2 driver i think that by now F1 would not be watchable.

C70R

17,596 posts

103 months

Tuesday 25th October 2016
quotequote all
tommunster10 said:
swisstoni said:
There's almost always a team who have got an advantage over the rest. It just works out that way.
We should be thankful that Hamilton did not insist on No1 driver status (as he surely could have, as per Schumacher, Vettel and Alonso before him) and that Mercedes do not adopt a similar approach to Ferrari and Red Bull.

Otherwise the last few years of Merc dominance would have been very dull indeed and there would already be a space in Hamilton's trophy cabinet with WDC 2016 written on it.
when Red bull had Vettel there was others drivers/teams in with a shout unlike how it has been for last 3 years
I presume that ignores 2011 or 2013, where Vettel was unbelievably dominant, winning more than half the races. It's amazing how short some people's memories are...
TOPIC CLOSED
TOPIC CLOSED