Lewis Hamilton

[HustleRussell]

r11co said:

HustleRussell said:

You need to drop this notion that we are to believe that you are the 'impartial messenger', you've shown your hand already and when it comes to Hamilton you are incapable of impartiality.

My partiality has nothing to do with it - objective facts are not negated because you disagree with the person presenting them. Lewis said what he said and the consequences of that are not affected by me telling you about it.

To quote you in your other thread (RIP)- 'answer impartially or shut up'

[r11co]

SeeFive said:

If I truly believed in my ability, I would probably be concentrating on things other than who my team mate was next year, like possibly who my mechanics were to be, or if I would be allowed to do all I can to achieve my personal goals against my team mate.

There's an obvious oxymoron in there, because under the circumstances the choice of team-mate and therefor the pecking order in the team would directly affect the bold above. The two go hand-in-hand.

[HustleRussell]

r11co said:

HustleRussell said:

Let's see if I'm wrong.

Not the point of the discussion.

You've started a thread about whether Hamilton's actions might get him sacked and my opinion that he won't be sacked is 'not the point of the discussion'?

[r11co]

HustleRussell said:

To quote you in your other thread (RIP)- 'answer impartially or shut up'

The all important difference being when the person who may not be impartial is asking the question.

HustleRussell said:

You've started a thread about whether Hamilton's actions might get him sacked and my opinion that he won't be sacked is 'not the point of the discussion'?

Saying negative things about you paymasters is a typical path that can lead to dismissal (or do you disagree with that), but there are a whole load of more pressing consequences that LH should be thinking about before making such comments public. That is the point of the discussion because there is a team-mate still to be chosen.

I'm taking it though from the sidestepping of this obvious massive elephant in the room that the fanbois secretly acknowledge he's not doing himself any favours by this.

Edited by r11co on Monday 19th December 12:09

[HustleRussell]

This is why nobody takes you seriously. Hypocrite.

[SeeFive]

r11co said:

SeeFive said:

If I truly believed in my ability, I would probably be concentrating on things other than who my team mate was next year, like possibly who my mechanics were to be, or if I would be allowed to do all I can to achieve my personal goals against my team mate.

There's an obvious oxymoron in there, because under the circumstances the choice of team-mate and therefor the pecking order in the team would directly affect the bold above. The two go hand-in-hand.

Firstly, Mercedes do not have a #1 and #2 driver in their contracts. Secondly, Mercedes have done things that if I was in Lewis's position, I would not want to happen again. Such as (whether it affected my chances or not) disrupt No my side of the garage by personnel changes, or ordering me to lose the WDC at the last race (which to be fair was lost because of,lots of other earlier incidents).

So yes, I would not care about that because in my mind, with just equal,opportunity, I would be convinced that I could beat him.

There is no oxymoron. You really need to understand the mind of a competitive sportsperson, especially driver. Nothing is ever their fault, it is always something else. Just listen to Maldonado or Massa after a shunt.

[LDN]

r11co said:

HustleRussell said:

To quote you in your other thread (RIP)- 'answer impartially or shut up'

The all important difference being when the person who may not be impartial is asking the question.

HustleRussell said:

You've started a thread about whether Hamilton's actions might get him sacked and my opinion that he won't be sacked is 'not the point of the discussion'?

Saying negative things about you paymasters is a typical path that can lead to dismissal (or do you disagree with that), but there are a whole load of more pressing consequences that LH should be thinking about before making such comments public. That is the point of the discussion because there is a team-mate still to be chosen.

I'm taking it though from the sidestepping of this obvious massive elephant in the room that the fanbois secretly acknowledge he's not doing himself any favours by this.

Edited by r11co on Monday 19th December 12:09

Let's just see if he gets sacked, shall we? That'll end any discussion. When do you think this sacking may occur?

[r11co]

SeeFive said:

Firstly, Mercedes do not have a #1 and #2 driver in their contracts.

That was (allegedly) the case up until Nico retired. That rule doesn't apply at the moment as there is no-one in place, and there's no obligation for it to be re-instated. That's the point I am making - Mercedes have a blank sheet of paper for their second driver right now and can shape things going forward in any way they like. Hamilton could be in a position to make sure there's something in it for him too.

SeeFive said:

Such as (whether it affected my chances or not) disrupt No my side of the garage by personnel changes, or ordering me to lose the WDC at the last race (which to be fair was lost because of,lots of other earlier incidents).

By your own qualification these things are arguably irrelevant, plus they are in the past. If Lewis was thinking the way you suggest then his eye would be right off the ball because those matters are far less important than who Merc pick to sit beside him in the garage next season.

Mercedes are taking their time over picking a replacement because they can afford to. In the absence of any public moves in that direction, having the publicity of Hamilton openly making negative comments about the team is damaging only to Hamilton himself because it strengthens the position of anyone coming in - knowing that the present incumbent is already unsettled and anticipating problems.

Edited by r11co on Monday 19th December 12:27

[heebeegeetee]

HustleRussell said:

You've started a thread about whether Hamilton's actions might get him sacked and my opinion that he won't be sacked is 'not the point of the discussion'?

fk me, I've just seen that! Stroll on riico, you have got it bad! Have you ever thought of having a life?

[KevinCamaroSS]

r11co said:

Do you think making negative comments about the people who ultimately have that decision is a wise way to motivate them to listen to what he has to say on the matter when the time comes?

So, please explain to us what you think he should have said? Hamilton was asked a direct question and responded with a truthful answer.

Would you rather he had lied? We all know he 'wears his heart on his sleeve' and it is naive in the extreme to expect him to give anything other than a truthful answer to a direct question.

[KevinCamaroSS]

r11co said:

SeeFive said:

Firstly, Mercedes do not have a #1 and #2 driver in their contracts.

That was (allegedly) the case up until Nico retired. That rule doesn't apply at the moment as there is no-one in place, and there's no obligation for it to be re-instated. That's the point I am making - Mercedes have a blank sheet of paper for their second driver right now and can shape things going forward in any way they like. Hamilton could be in a position to make sure there's something in it for him too.

What 'rule' is this?

Hamilton's contract does not state he is #1, without changing his contract it never will, therefore your claim about a 'rule' is arrant nonsense.

When a new driver is eventually contracted their contract will say one of the following:

A) You are #1 driver;
B) You are #2 driver;
C) Nothing at all about #1 or #2 driver

Nothing to do with any non-existent 'rule' you have made up.

[oyster]

housen said:

r11co said:

housen said:

if people lived their lives like that

we would all get fcked over by the people who employ us

I'm guessing you've 'departed' from a few jobs then.....

nope

I work in a viper pit and get paid well for it

but the people who don't stand up for themselves don't make a bean

99% of people don't want to work in a 'viper pit', regardless of how well paid it can be.

That doesn't make you better or them worse.

[tommunster10]

There are plenty of drivers who could drive a current F1 car, plenty. But there are very few 'stars'.
This is the generation of X Factor / Kardishans / and instagram celebrities. This generation needs 'stars'. In truth Lewis is probably the only 'star' who could transcend the sport... That's important for marketing.

Lewis has a lot of fans and many won't even have a clue about Motorsport but 'like his clothes' etc. Merc know this and pay him big bucks, he's going no where because they won't find another star like him.
By saying 'disrespected' it will chime with American's who use that vernacular.

[r11co]

LDN said:

Let's just see if he gets sacked, shall we? That'll end any discussion. When do you think this sacking may occur?

Once again sidestepping the question. Badmouthing your paymasters is generally a good way to start down the path to having your contract terminated. I never said, despite several of you alleging otherwise, that it was the inevitable conclusion of LH's latest negative comments and there's a whole load of consequences in between here and there that none of you want to discuss, probably because you acknowledge that it was a stupid thing to do.

I'll ask again - is making negative comments about the team management a good thing to do bearing in mind the selection of a team-mate is ongoing and Mercedes have a very strong hand in who they can choose to fill the vacancy? Would it not be smarter to let bygones be bygones, cut loose his demons figuratively with the departure of his former team-mate and pro-actively and positively pitch for input into the team's choice of successor?

Edited by r11co on Monday 19th December 14:05

[tommunster10]

r11co said:

LDN said:

Let's just see if he gets sacked, shall we? That'll end any discussion. When do you think this sacking may occur?

Once again sidestepping the question. Badmouthing your paymasters is generally a good way to start down the path to having your contract terminated. I never said, despite several of you alleging otherwise, that it was the inevitable conclusion of LH's latest negative comments and there's a whole load of consequences in between here and there that none of you want to discuss, probably because you acknowledge that it was a stupid thing to do.

I'll ask again - is making negative comments about the team management a good thing to do bearing in mind the selection of a team-mate is ongoing and Mercedes have a very strong hand in who they can choose to fill the vacancy?

Edited by r11co on Monday 19th December 14:01

They can't find another star like Lewis though. Like i said, finding a driver who could drive that Merc and win or come 2nd is easy. Finding a star, no so.

[r11co]

tommunster10 said:

They can't find another star like Lewis though. Like i said, finding a driver who could drive that Merc and win or come 2nd is easy. Finding a star, no so.

When does a 'star' who badmouths his team start to become a liability to the brand? Genuinely, at what point, if any, does someone in Mercedes management say 'this just isn't worth it anymore'?

KevinCamaroSS said:

So, please explain to us what you think he should have said?

Something else. Anything else, but ideally something that would strengthen his position in the team, not undermine it further as if he was trying to set up a self-fulfilling prophecy for the future.

Edited by r11co on Monday 19th December 14:16

[HustleRussell]

Why do you keep saying "genuine question"? Genuine question.

[r11co]

HustleRussell said:

Why do you keep saying "genuine question"? Genuine question.

Because I am not being rhetorical. I would really like one of the Lewis Hamilton fan collective to answer the question rather than go off on a tangent slagging me off for bringing it to their attention.

[stewjohnst]

r11co said:

Until Lewis turns up in Mercedes overalls for the first race in 2017 you cannot even begin to be certain about that.

You seem to be convinced it is the best place for him to be (and I don't disagree), and in LH's heart-of-hearts he almost certainly knows that too, so what is there to gain by continually bad-mouthing and antagonising his paymasters, especially considering the fortunate position they find themselves in at the moment? Genuine question.

You have to understand that the champions never stop playing the game. What he's doing is less likely to be petulance and more about leverage.

Take my personal situation. I happen to be good at what I do, my skills are in demand in the industry I work in and labour is very fluid.

This means although I'm paid fairly for it by my current employer, I could get a more money if I left to join another competitor but my current client means I'm able to go home every night to my family (Rosberg syndrome )instead of having three nights in a hotel so I'm happy where I am.

I'm happy and my employer is happy. However, should my employer post me off to a far flung location (the equivalent handing LH a duff F1 car in 2017), there's an unwritten understanding that I'd just pick up the phone and leave the company because if I'm going to work miles from home, I'll take the extra cash to do so - because I can and someone will take me.

All Lewis is doing in the interview is playing the same game.

What he is doing is making it clear to Mercedes that I'll happily drive your car as long it can win me races but there's an understanding that I'm not sure I trust you. Therefore, you need to make damn sure you're doing things next year to make me love you or I'll go find someone else that will take me - and they will take me because I'm a 3xtime WDC.

There may be no number 1/2 clause but he is using the fact they were at best inconsistent/inept last year with LH/Rosberg (e.g. Baku - no engine mode advice/Nico, just shift through the gears, Abu Dhabi Radio, etc) as leverage to get them to bend to his demands.

If there's a new part and only 1 of them on a weekend - "put it on my car first to prove to me there's no conspiracy, etc". If there's a split strategy and one of them is 0.5 seconds faster than the other, give me the 0.5 seconds faster one.

Does that make him a prima-donna, maybe, am I giving him too much credit, I don't think so.

[r11co]

stewjohnst said:

You have to understand that the champions never stop playing the game. What he's doing is less likely to be petulance and more about leverage.

I totally get that. Thanks also for the reasoned argument that I've avoided requoting.

Thing is I just can't help feeling that his 'leverage' right now would have been best served by getting a team-mate who is grateful for the opportunity and isn't going to cause him any trouble. He seems to be dwelling on the past and assuming that what went before will happen again, which is far from a certainty. The character, skills and experience of the person across the garage is what will dictate if there are any split-loyalties within the team and Hamilton should be aware of that considering his career history!

Even the same things said differently make a lot of difference, and could make the difference between someone at Mercedes saying 'yeah, let's give Ham the boost next year seeing as things might not be so clear-cut with the new regs and all' or 'fk this, put Alonso in the other car, give Ham all the rope he needs and see if he rises to the challenge or spits his dummy and goes to Red Bull'.

Edited by r11co on Monday 19th December 14:43