Lewis Hamilton
Discussion
r11co said:
SeeFive said:
What you don't seem to grasp is that he probably understands the company and the people that matter, his own position and risks a lot more than you do.
And I can equally validly assert he probably doesn't. More validly in fact judging by how his team have responded to his negativity in the past. stewjohnst's observation that they are painfully aware of the situation but have made a rod for themselves having let him away with things too often now looks on the balance of evidence to be accurate.SeeFive said:
you slag off a driver you don't like for some reason.
Funny how words like 'deluded' get bandied about as soon as someone presents some information about LH that doesn't fit with the deified image of imperfect perfection that some in here want to preserve in their minds.I'm not 'slagging off a driver' - once again you are creating a narrative to justify your personal attacks on me.
Bottom line is he said more negative s
t about his team, at a time when it was completely unnecessary to do so and would achieve nothing, and at a time when the team itself is in the midst of the biggest shake-up in its driver line-up for many years - a change that will drastically re-align the dynamic in the team which if managed correctly by Hamilton could be very much to his benefit.What is inaccurate about that observation? That he didn't say what he said despite it being broadcast on CH4, or that it wasn't negative? Is it an illusion that the team have an empty seat going and have their pick of every professional racing driver on the planet as they are falling over themselves to take the seat, plus Mercedes has the bargaining chip that is the best powertrain going in the sport?
Stop trying to deconstruct me and try addressing the points (assuming you are able). Dismissing this as 'Lewis Hamilton slagging' is facile.
Edited by r11co on Monday 19th December 18:49
r11co the forgetful said:
slack-mouthed losing second driver...
Loose words from the sthead from Stevenage once again?
.Loose words from the s
thead from Stevenage once again?I was being kind when I said "probably". Two words, you don't. You truly believe that you know more about Lewis's situation at Mercedes than he does by watching him speak on channel 4? Really?? Now that is properly deluded.
And as pointed out. I answered your question, so go back and read it and stop posting that I haven't.
So come on then mr so full of questions and ignoring a debate on the answers given - answer mine. Why do you dislike Lewis so much? Then we can at least see why you so badly want Mercedes to fire him.
With due respect to him (unless he is one of the Merc management team or Lewis) are you also asserting that stewjohnst also knows more about the situation at Mercedes than the protagonists themselves?
It is all ifs and buts. The big but being that you do not know as much as you suggest you do. You read the Internet and watch TV. How many times have you said he will not be in a Merc next year on this thread? You truly believe that? I think deluded is a compliment, and nothing to do with liking or dislking any driver. You bring that upon yourself.
Edited by SeeFive on Tuesday 20th December 00:38
I fear r11co is the epitome of the 'anti-fanboy' who verges on having a dartboard in the cellar with a picture of Hamilton stuck on.
I kid. Kind of.
I suppose the sport attracts debate on random related stuff in the off season. It is odd, just how hate filled / or at least, angry some people get; that's for sure.
I kid. Kind of.
I suppose the sport attracts debate on random related stuff in the off season. It is odd, just how hate filled / or at least, angry some people get; that's for sure.
SeeFive said:
With due respect to him (unless he is one of the Merc management team or Lewis) are you also asserting that stewjohnst also knows more about the situation at Mercedes than the protagonists themselves?
^ This. I am neither and just enjoy a spot of idle speculation but I'm no more connected to the true machinations of F1 than the next armchair fan. Although as someone that trawls (note, not trolls) f1 forums across here, f1 technical and fanatic, etc and once in a while even buy that Autosport rag, I'd consider myself a pretty clued up f1 fan.I work in utilities and smart metering and every time I see an article about them in the mainstream media, I either piss myself laughing or my piss gets boiled because the person writing the article invariably has almost no idea of what is really going on (good or bad) but the internet allows the publication of any old idea until the fact filters become blurred (google David Icke, Saturn Sun, for example).
Best just to keep perspective that F1 doesn't matter and is a distraction from the real world or people blowing each other up and trucks driving through markets of happy shoppers for no good reason. Therefore, arguments about F1 on a forum are even more pointless.
Oddly though, these flame wars are probably a good indicator of the type of messianic zeal that prevents the comprehension of other world views that means as a species our destruction is assured...
PS - If anyone did google Mr Icke, I don't think lizards are running the world, just Bernie.
stewjohnst said:
SeeFive said:
With due respect to him (unless he is one of the Merc management team or Lewis) are you also asserting that stewjohnst also knows more about the situation at Mercedes than the protagonists themselves?
^ This.The question still has not been answered - under the current circumstances at Mercedes when the second seat is vacant and Hamilton has been given a golden opportunity to renew his relationship with and influence the dynamic in the team, was it wise or even necessary to make negative comments at this time?
No speculation about the kind of person he might be or harking back to historical circumstances that no longer apply, or turning the debate to what I think or know or what others think or know (because ironically most of the discussion seems to end up revolving around other people knowing me better than I do).
Plain and simple - was it a prudent move or not?
Edited by r11co on Tuesday 20th December 06:41
r11co said:
No I wasn't. I said that as an observation it was an objectively accurate one. Again the debate turns to a deconstruction of the messenger in order to avoid addressing the issue.
The question still has not been answered - under the current circumstances at Mercedes when the second seat is vacant and Hamilton has been given a golden opportunity to renew his relationship with and influence the dynamic in the team, was it wise or even necessary to make negative comments at this time?
No speculation about the kind of person he might be or harking back to historical circumstances that no longer apply, or turning the debate to what I think or know or what others think or know (because ironically most of the discussion seems to end up revolving around other people knowing me better than I do).
Plain and simple - was it a prudent move or not?
And the only answer anyone can give imo: Who knows, time will tell. The question still has not been answered - under the current circumstances at Mercedes when the second seat is vacant and Hamilton has been given a golden opportunity to renew his relationship with and influence the dynamic in the team, was it wise or even necessary to make negative comments at this time?
No speculation about the kind of person he might be or harking back to historical circumstances that no longer apply, or turning the debate to what I think or know or what others think or know (because ironically most of the discussion seems to end up revolving around other people knowing me better than I do).
Plain and simple - was it a prudent move or not?
Edited by r11co on Tuesday 20th December 06:41
r11co said:
Plain and simple - was it a prudent move or not?
May as well just close the thread as we just don't know.If Toto comes out and says "We were all set with a shovel, tickets to Sao Paola and had a voodoo reanimator lined up to put Senna in the second car but now Lewis has been mean to us we're still going to use the tickets but settle for Pedro Diniz". Then yes, it was an inspired move.
If Toto says something like "We were all set to have Lardy McLardface s
tpants Rent-a-driver in the second seat but because Lewis has been so outspoken, we've been giving Jesus H Christ himself a seat fitting, let's see how blessed Hamilton feels now". Then, Lewis might feel a bit daft for speaking out.The reality is, even if what he has said has a bearing on who they sign, their explanation may not be forthcoming so we're back to not knowing...
r11co said:
stewjohnst said:
SeeFive said:
With due respect to him (unless he is one of the Merc management team or Lewis) are you also asserting that stewjohnst also knows more about the situation at Mercedes than the protagonists themselves?
^ This.The question still has not been answered - under the current circumstances at Mercedes when the second seat is vacant and Hamilton has been given a golden opportunity to renew his relationship with and influence the dynamic in the team, was it wise or even necessary to make negative comments at this time?
No speculation about the kind of person he might be or harking back to historical circumstances that no longer apply, or turning the debate to what I think or know or what others think or know (because ironically most of the discussion seems to end up revolving around other people knowing me better than I do).
Plain and simple - was it a prudent move or not?
Edited by r11co on Tuesday 20th December 06:41
The answer is only Lewis would know. Your other question was answered yesterday at 15:01 which you dropped from your quoting shortly afterwards to pretend I hadn't answered and ask a different one.
Now, for the third time, have you listed your reasons for not liking Lewis yet?
Edited by SeeFive on Tuesday 20th December 09:12
r11co said:
The question still has not been answered - under the current circumstances at Mercedes when the second seat is vacant and Hamilton has been given a golden opportunity to renew his relationship with and influence the dynamic in the team, was it wise or even necessary to make negative comments at this time?
No speculation about the kind of person he might be or harking back to historical circumstances that no longer apply, or turning the debate to what I think or know or what others think or know (because ironically most of the discussion seems to end up revolving around other people knowing me better than I do).
Plain and simple - was it a prudent move or not?
I think Lewis knows exactly what he's doing, he and his management team will know how to play the game much better than you or I, he is sending out a 'don't forget about me' message to the guys tasked with finding his new teammate after Nico dropped them in it. Remember F1 isn't your usual formulaic management structure where the goal is for everybody to be happy and productive, F1 is about winning, it's about beating other teams, and for the drivers it's about beating your teammate otherwise the best you will ever achieve is second.No speculation about the kind of person he might be or harking back to historical circumstances that no longer apply, or turning the debate to what I think or know or what others think or know (because ironically most of the discussion seems to end up revolving around other people knowing me better than I do).
Plain and simple - was it a prudent move or not?
Lewis knows exactly how he want's his team to operate, he doesn't want to have a lovely cuddly relationship with his team or his teammate, he knows that to beat his main rival (his teammate) he needs to get under their skin and to disrupt them mentally as well as proving his outright pace. His approach is to be the outspoken petulant thorn in the teams side, the winner who needs the most attention!
His approach has served him well over the years, with Nico himself confirming that it took exceptional mental energy to beat Lewis last season.
So, for Lewis getting the first shot across the mind-games bows could well be a prudent move for him.
stewjohnst said:
^ This. I am neither and just enjoy a spot of idle speculation but I'm no more connected to the true machinations of F1 than the next armchair fan. Although as someone that trawls (note, not trolls) f1 forums across here, f1 technical and fanatic, etc and once in a while even buy that Autosport rag, I'd consider myself a pretty clued up f1 fan.
I work in utilities and smart metering and every time I see an article about them in the mainstream media, I either piss myself laughing or my piss gets boiled because the person writing the article invariably has almost no idea of what is really going on (good or bad) but the internet allows the publication of any old idea until the fact filters become blurred (google David Icke, Saturn Sun, for example).
Best just to keep perspective that F1 doesn't matter and is a distraction from the real world or people blowing each other up and trucks driving through markets of happy shoppers for no good reason. Therefore, arguments about F1 on a forum are even more pointless.
Oddly though, these flame wars are probably a good indicator of the type of messianic zeal that prevents the comprehension of other world views that means as a species our destruction is assured...
PS - If anyone did google Mr Icke, I don't think lizards are running the world, just Bernie.
I work in utilities and smart metering and every time I see an article about them in the mainstream media, I either piss myself laughing or my piss gets boiled because the person writing the article invariably has almost no idea of what is really going on (good or bad) but the internet allows the publication of any old idea until the fact filters become blurred (google David Icke, Saturn Sun, for example).
Best just to keep perspective that F1 doesn't matter and is a distraction from the real world or people blowing each other up and trucks driving through markets of happy shoppers for no good reason. Therefore, arguments about F1 on a forum are even more pointless.
Oddly though, these flame wars are probably a good indicator of the type of messianic zeal that prevents the comprehension of other world views that means as a species our destruction is assured...
PS - If anyone did google Mr Icke, I don't think lizards are running the world, just Bernie.
. Indeed, all hail Bernie. Back in 82/83, just after I got ran over by Keke's destroyed car getting dragged back into the pits, I grabbed Bernie by the tail to whinge at him about pit lane safety, it came off and he scuttled away. By dinner time, he had grown a new one. Suspicious... Thought the interview posted on here was interesting yesterday, and didn't see anyone ask whether it was prudent to state his opinions on his meeting with Putin and how he and Trump can change the world, and Lewis cannot be beaten etc... Still, people just don't have that level of hatred to pick up on that, even for Bernie as a clear Lewis fanboi.
It is fun on here sometimes. Folks who frequently spit bile, deny it, and ignore it when evidence of their vitriolic words are presented back to them, and ask loads of questions until they get one answer that questions their opinion as fact, and then claim victim on that. They State their own baseless notions as fact, and of course consistently seek to present third party approval to their views from others "agreeing" with an irrelevant aspect of their less vitriolic outbursts. Their need to persuade others to accept their view of the "facts" is astonishing.
I guess since he says he is not slagging Lewis off, I guess it would be OK to call him "the s
thead from Glasgow" going forward? And as he still won't answer the question about why he doesn't like Lewis, maybe it is a term of endearment after all.Sometime trolls can be entertaining and we like to keep them. I think r11co is very entertaining, if entirely predictable. I suspect that I will be re-accused of being a Lewis supporter/fanboi/bumchum sometime soon, or maybe of just attacking the messenger to divert attention away from the evidence that laughably, from his armchair, he claims to have better access to the "facts" than the folks at Merc.
All IMHO of course, and not a statement of fact... Well, except maybe it is true about Bernie's tail regrowing capabilities.
A lot of sense spoken on here this morning, since about 07:00. I'll just add that I personally believe Hamilton does not care who his team-mate will be because he believes that he is the best driver out there and can beat anybody in the same car. Given his results in F1, and before F1, I am not going to suggest anything different either, his results speak for themselves.
KevinCamaroSS said:
A lot of sense spoken on here this morning, since about 07:00. I'll just add that I personally believe Hamilton does not care who his team-mate will be because he believes that he is the best driver out there and can beat anybody in the same car. Given his results in F1, and before F1, I am not going to suggest anything different either, his results speak for themselves.
I can't believe people were still posting about this up to 1 in the morning! Jesus...Anyway how'd Lewis beating anybody in the same car go with Nico over 3 seasons? Nico had a few wins and poles IIRC....
Oddly part of Lewis's 'star' quality is his terrible attitude, i suppose it fits in with the people who follow him. The whole chip on his shoulder thing. Merc know this and play up to it, much in the same way Senna was divisive, look at Tyson and how he was in boxing divisive sells, look at Plato in BTCC. I get how it happens and people need to understand that how it works in some will adore them others will not, hence why they get the most attention.
If anyone has seen 30 to 30 Chasing Tyson, about Evander Hollyfield they will know what i'm on about...
tommunster10 said:
Anyway how'd Lewis beating anybody in the same car go with Nico over 3 seasons? Nico had a few wins and poles IIRC....
...
I think Lewis will be satisfied overall, 2 WDC's to 1 and left Nico so mentally exhausted he decided to retire. In his mind, he'll see that as a victory too....
tommunster10 said:
Anyway how'd Lewis beating anybody in the same car go with Nico over 3 seasons? Nico had a few wins and poles IIRC....
2-1 I think So on balance his self belief is that he'd win.
The point here is that in his head (and broadly on paper) he beat Nico more often than not and the times he didn't he will have rationalised it as not his fault/external factors, etc.
That rationalisation was not always correct - I sincerely doubt there was a German conspiracy and there were certainly occasions where Nico spanked him or Lewis and his side ballsed up a qually lap or pit call (Monaco?) under pressure.
Lewis has finished this season by reconciling himself to the fact that had the car not broken down, he would have been WDC. He has mentally glossed over the fact that if he'd had a spot more luck/finesse with a clutch and a few other things that were in his control, the exploding nature of his engine wouldn't have been a factor.
r11co said:
stewjohnst said:
SeeFive said:
With due respect to him (unless he is one of the Merc management team or Lewis) are you also asserting that stewjohnst also knows more about the situation at Mercedes than the protagonists themselves?
^ This.The question still has not been answered - under the current circumstances at Mercedes when the second seat is vacant and Hamilton has been given a golden opportunity to renew his relationship with and influence the dynamic in the team, was it wise or even necessary to make negative comments at this time?
No speculation about the kind of person he might be or harking back to historical circumstances that no longer apply, or turning the debate to what I think or know or what others think or know (because ironically most of the discussion seems to end up revolving around other people knowing me better than I do).
Plain and simple - was it a prudent move or not?
Edited by r11co on Tuesday 20th December 06:41
Dakkon said:
r11co said:
stewjohnst said:
SeeFive said:
With due respect to him (unless he is one of the Merc management team or Lewis) are you also asserting that stewjohnst also knows more about the situation at Mercedes than the protagonists themselves?
^ This.The question still has not been answered - under the current circumstances at Mercedes when the second seat is vacant and Hamilton has been given a golden opportunity to renew his relationship with and influence the dynamic in the team, was it wise or even necessary to make negative comments at this time?
No speculation about the kind of person he might be or harking back to historical circumstances that no longer apply, or turning the debate to what I think or know or what others think or know (because ironically most of the discussion seems to end up revolving around other people knowing me better than I do).
Plain and simple - was it a prudent move or not?
Edited by r11co on Tuesday 20th December 06:41
tommunster10 said:
KevinCamaroSS said:
A lot of sense spoken on here this morning, since about 07:00. I'll just add that I personally believe Hamilton does not care who his team-mate will be because he believes that he is the best driver out there and can beat anybody in the same car. Given his results in F1, and before F1, I am not going to suggest anything different either, his results speak for themselves.
I can't believe people were still posting about this up to 1 in the morning! Jesus...Anyway how'd Lewis beating anybody in the same car go with Nico over 3 seasons? Nico had a few wins and poles IIRC....
Oddly part of Lewis's 'star' quality is his terrible attitude, i suppose it fits in with the people who follow him. The whole chip on his shoulder thing. Merc know this and play up to it, much in the same way Senna was divisive, look at Tyson and how he was in boxing divisive sells, look at Plato in BTCC. I get how it happens and people need to understand that how it works in some will adore them others will not, hence why they get the most attention.
If anyone has seen 30 to 30 Chasing Tyson, about Evander Hollyfield they will know what i'm on about...
London424 said:
tommunster10 said:
KevinCamaroSS said:
A lot of sense spoken on here this morning, since about 07:00. I'll just add that I personally believe Hamilton does not care who his team-mate will be because he believes that he is the best driver out there and can beat anybody in the same car. Given his results in F1, and before F1, I am not going to suggest anything different either, his results speak for themselves.
I can't believe people were still posting about this up to 1 in the morning! Jesus...Anyway how'd Lewis beating anybody in the same car go with Nico over 3 seasons? Nico had a few wins and poles IIRC....
Oddly part of Lewis's 'star' quality is his terrible attitude, i suppose it fits in with the people who follow him. The whole chip on his shoulder thing. Merc know this and play up to it, much in the same way Senna was divisive, look at Tyson and how he was in boxing divisive sells, look at Plato in BTCC. I get how it happens and people need to understand that how it works in some will adore them others will not, hence why they get the most attention.
If anyone has seen 30 to 30 Chasing Tyson, about Evander Hollyfield they will know what i'm on about...
LDN said:
London424 said:
tommunster10 said:
KevinCamaroSS said:
A lot of sense spoken on here this morning, since about 07:00. I'll just add that I personally believe Hamilton does not care who his team-mate will be because he believes that he is the best driver out there and can beat anybody in the same car. Given his results in F1, and before F1, I am not going to suggest anything different either, his results speak for themselves.
I can't believe people were still posting about this up to 1 in the morning! Jesus...Anyway how'd Lewis beating anybody in the same car go with Nico over 3 seasons? Nico had a few wins and poles IIRC....
Oddly part of Lewis's 'star' quality is his terrible attitude, i suppose it fits in with the people who follow him. The whole chip on his shoulder thing. Merc know this and play up to it, much in the same way Senna was divisive, look at Tyson and how he was in boxing divisive sells, look at Plato in BTCC. I get how it happens and people need to understand that how it works in some will adore them others will not, hence why they get the most attention.
If anyone has seen 30 to 30 Chasing Tyson, about Evander Hollyfield they will know what i'm on about...
stewjohnst said:
tommunster10 said:
Anyway how'd Lewis beating anybody in the same car go with Nico over 3 seasons? Nico had a few wins and poles IIRC....
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