Lewis Hamilton
Discussion
because I was only being facetious. ASB was a 1950s driver and would struggle to get a modern F1 car to even move. Given his disabilities he was a phenomenal driver though.
C Lee Farquar said:
HustleRussell said:
I saw that and thought what knobbery is this?
Exactly, with the arguable exception of Alonso, he's hardly overshadowed any of his team mates let alone harmed their careers.In 20 odd years of racing there are only 2 seasons he has been beaten by his team-mate. In relatively modern F1 he remains the only driver to win at least one race in every season he has raced.
Yet still you claim he is no good? Second in the all time list of wins (agreed it is easier now when there are more races). One of the highest %ages in win rate etc, etc.
90% of the time he is practically untouchable, the other 10% (e.g. Baku) makes F1 more interesting. I would find it boring if the same driver won every race.
Some Gump said:
DeltonaS said:
Your mother would get P2/3 in a Mercedes......
Common misconception.I raced karts as a kid. We often beat people that are now full on names / ex names in F1, Le Mans, IMSA, ELMS, WEC, DTM and That cool jap GT500 series. At one point, locally we were very much in the "top 3 to beat" category. Nationally, we could expect podiums.
I have a history of track days - not as fewquent as I'd like but still kept my eye in.
Lets be blunt. ANY decent club racer would beat me into the ground so hard it'd be embarassing. An ELMS Gold driver would make me look like such a gump it's untrue. A Platinum? Wow. Each step (each fraction of a second) is an exponential improvement. Your gran could beat him? b
ks. I'm probably In the top 10% of UK citizens and I'd struggle to keep up with the safety car.Take Karting as an example. You've got a grid of 25-30. All but the real novices can do 1.25's. 20 can do 1.24's. 10 can do 1.23's. 5 can do 1.22.5's. the top 3 can do 1.22.2. All in identical equipment. The closer to the limit, the smaller the differnence between best and not.
In F1,people look at the telly and think "well it's just the car" - and [within that specific tiny minority that have the ability] it IS just the car. Thing is, ex F1 people like Coulthard Herbert etc simply can't drive them now. Drivers that have a single year off can't drive them. They are so far beyond our perception of what is doable it's daft. To be an average F1 driver is not a sign that the person is somehow akin to your gran - rather they're in possession of an 11.75" dick in a world where mandingo's is 12".
Vaud said:
I can see the attraction for Bottas - his best chance of race wins in the near future is at Merc, not Williams. Even if (worse case) he does a year at Merc and reverts to Williams he will have taken himself against one often top 2/3 drivers, maybe got a win (or 2,3,4) and be back in a Williams, now with Paddy at the technical helm. No bad outcome for either.
Spot on assessment. 
KevinCamaroSS said:
C Lee Farquar said:
HustleRussell said:
I saw that and thought what knobbery is this?
Exactly, with the arguable exception of Alonso, he's hardly overshadowed any of his team mates let alone harmed their careers.In 20 odd years of racing there are only 2 seasons he has been beaten by his team-mate. In relatively modern F1 he remains the only driver to win at least one race in every season he has raced.
Yet still you claim he is no good?
From most interviews I've seen Lewis is respected by the Team Principals. Bottas isn't expected to beat him, so unless he totally bombs I can't see how Lewis can ruin his career.
It could be argued Lewis has more to lose, reputation wise, than Bottas.
rdjohn said:
Vaud said:
I can see the attraction for Bottas - his best chance of race wins in the near future is at Merc, not Williams. Even if (worse case) he does a year at Merc and reverts to Williams he will have taken himself against one often top 2/3 drivers, maybe got a win (or 2,3,4) and be back in a Williams, now with Paddy at the technical helm. No bad outcome for either.
Spot on assessment. KevinCamaroSS said:
C Lee Farquar said:
HustleRussell said:
I saw that and thought what knobbery is this?
Exactly, with the arguable exception of Alonso, he's hardly overshadowed any of his team mates let alone harmed their careers.Guess what, the people I love most of all on this planet have flaws. Everybody does. Am I 'anti' them?
On this occasion Hamilton's dad has said something thoroughly knobbish. Coming out with stuff like that just doesn't play well this side of the Atlantic. IMO 'sportsmen' are more reserved than smack talking their opponents like that. I hope Hamilton cringed slightly when he discovered that his Dad had said that because even if it is true, saying it displays arrogance in the extreme, the likes of which ought to be left to the Wrastlin' or NASCAR or something.
Hamilton's Dad is right though isn't he?
His son is the current benchmark for fast in F1.
If Bottas is blown away, then his rep will be destroyed.
If he pushes him like Rosberg, or better, then he'll be in high demand for the rest of his career.
I expect him to do the latter, and for Hamilton to welcome the challenge.
His son is the current benchmark for fast in F1.
If Bottas is blown away, then his rep will be destroyed.
If he pushes him like Rosberg, or better, then he'll be in high demand for the rest of his career.
I expect him to do the latter, and for Hamilton to welcome the challenge.
swisstoni said:
Hamilton's Dad is right though isn't he?
His son is the current benchmark for fast in F1.
If Bottas is blown away, then his rep will be destroyed.
If he pushes him like Rosberg, or better, then he'll be in high demand for the rest of his career.
I expect him to do the latter, and for Hamilton to welcome the challenge.
Is his son THE benchmark? He is certainly ONE of them (and I personally rate Lewis very highly), but many regard Vettel and Alonso as very comparable. Different talents in each.His son is the current benchmark for fast in F1.
If Bottas is blown away, then his rep will be destroyed.
If he pushes him like Rosberg, or better, then he'll be in high demand for the rest of his career.
I expect him to do the latter, and for Hamilton to welcome the challenge.
swisstoni said:
Hamilton's Dad is right though isn't he?
If Bottas is blown away, then his rep will be destroyed.
If he pushes him like Rosberg, or better, then he'll be in high demand for the rest of his career.
Indeed, but if he can't put up a decent show against Lewis I would suggest he doesn't deserve a decent reputation and would be highly unlikely to win the world championship later in his career anyway.If Bottas is blown away, then his rep will be destroyed.
If he pushes him like Rosberg, or better, then he'll be in high demand for the rest of his career.
I do think, as others have said Bottas has very little to lose.
I'm looking forward to their battle!
It's reasoable to say that Hamilton in a Merc is as good a benchmark as we have currently. Its clearly the best car and he's good. Currently vettel/alonso have at least one mitigating factor and that's the car.
If Bottas can compete his reputation will be enhanced but it is all or nothing as he's in the best car (as far as we know this year)so effectively its him against Hamilton.If he's blown away then he's clearly not one of the elite.
It would be great to see all the F1 drivers in the same machinery. I can't see there would be much in it regardless of their F1 grid position.
If Bottas can compete his reputation will be enhanced but it is all or nothing as he's in the best car (as far as we know this year)so effectively its him against Hamilton.If he's blown away then he's clearly not one of the elite.
It would be great to see all the F1 drivers in the same machinery. I can't see there would be much in it regardless of their F1 grid position.
Some Gump said:
DeltonaS said:
Your mother would get P2/3 in a Mercedes......
Common misconception.I raced karts as a kid. We often beat people that are now full on names / ex names in F1, Le Mans, IMSA, ELMS, WEC, DTM and That cool jap GT500 series. At one point, locally we were very much in the "top 3 to beat" category. Nationally, we could expect podiums.
I have a history of track days - not as fewquent as I'd like but still kept my eye in.
Lets be blunt. ANY decent club racer would beat me into the ground so hard it'd be embarassing. An ELMS Gold driver would make me look like such a gump it's untrue. A Platinum? Wow. Each step (each fraction of a second) is an exponential improvement. Your gran could beat him? b
ks. I'm probably In the top 10% of UK citizens and I'd struggle to keep up with the safety car.Take Karting as an example. You've got a grid of 25-30. All but the real novices can do 1.25's. 20 can do 1.24's. 10 can do 1.23's. 5 can do 1.22.5's. the top 3 can do 1.22.2. All in identical equipment. The closer to the limit, the smaller the differnence between best and not.
In F1,people look at the telly and think "well it's just the car" - and [within that specific tiny minority that have the ability] it IS just the car. Thing is, ex F1 people like Coulthard Herbert etc simply can't drive them now. Drivers that have a single year off can't drive them. They are so far beyond our perception of what is doable it's daft. To be an average F1 driver is not a sign that the person is somehow akin to your gran - rather they're in possession of an 11.75" dick in a world where mandingo's is 12".
Except let's be honest the Merc. these pas couple of seasons was as dominant as an F1 car could ever be....
Hamilton is a great F1 driver, very, very talented, but he got a bit of help....plus he's racing very talented drivers....
Edited by DeltonaS on Thursday 9th February 22:13
DKL said:
It would be great to see all the F1 drivers in the same machinery. I can't see there would be much in it regardless of their F1 grid position.
One of the great never ending cycle of arguments for F1 fans. The vast majority don't want F1 to be a spec series, yet they will all still argue about driver talent vs being in the right car at the right time etc. Add in a healthy dose of bias dependent on which characters they like and you have the basis of thousands of pages of interweb arguments.I'm guessing the differences on a truly level playing field from the current crop of drivers would be vanishingly small. Yet it's those tiny differences that are the critical piece of the puzzle. Look at Rosberg vs Hamilton last season, nobody would put Rosberg near the top of the 'best F1 drivers' list, yet more often than not the difference between them could be measured in a 10th or two.
ukaskew said:
DKL said:
It would be great to see all the F1 drivers in the same machinery. I can't see there would be much in it regardless of their F1 grid position.
One of the great never ending cycle of arguments for F1 fans. The vast majority don't want F1 to be a spec series, yet they will all still argue about driver talent vs being in the right car at the right time etc. Add in a healthy dose of bias dependent on which characters they like and you have the basis of thousands of pages of interweb arguments.I'm guessing the differences on a truly level playing field from the current crop of drivers would be vanishingly small. Yet it's those tiny differences that are the critical piece of the puzzle. Look at Rosberg vs Hamilton last season, nobody would put Rosberg near the top of the 'best F1 drivers' list, yet more often than not the difference between them could be measured in a 10th or two.
Vaud said:
Is his son THE benchmark? He is certainly ONE of them (and I personally rate Lewis very highly), but many regard Vettel and Alonso as very comparable. Different talents in each.
Alonso = Yes, Vettel = No. Never in the same ballpark as a complete driver. Comprehensively beaten by Ricciardo.KevinCamaroSS said:
Alonso = Yes, Vettel = No. Never in the same ballpark as a complete driver. Comprehensively beaten by Ricciardo.
Schumacher was comprehensively beaten by Rosberg, too.So I don't think we can read too much into that.
Sadly, the Mercedes dominance and Ferrari / McLaren under-performance has robbed us of any real comparisons between the WDCs currently racing.
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