Why are McLaren so crap?

[VolvoT5]

Rich_W said:

It's funny the first Honda year all the fanbois said "ah but the car is great, and will win the championship next year" (I used to work with one such tt!) But of course it ISN'T just the engine. The car isn't that good clearly.

...

^This. McLaren are a huge disappointment at the moment...although expect certain hardcore fanboy members to come along shortly and rant about the unfair 'bashing' of McLaren.

McLaren are very much like Ferrari these days.... big on promises but very short on delivery. The '3rd best chassis' claim is one of the most ridiculous they have made all year though as even at non-power circuits it is clear the car is far from competitive..... and I can't recall the last time McLaren did make a decent car, even in 2014 when they had the Merc engine they were not even close to being the second best Merc powered team.

The only positive I can see for McHonda is they have huge resources they can combine together and the relaxation of the development rules next season may allow them to finally catch up..... assuming Mercedes are reaching the maximum of what can actually be achieved with this kind of engine technology and don't suddenly find another 100 bhp themselves.

Edited by VolvoT5 on Monday 10th October 17:13

[RYH64E]

VolvoT5 said:

^This. McLaren are a huge disappointment at the moment...although expect certain hardcore fanboy members to come along shortly and rant about the unfair 'bashing' of McLaren.

McLaren are very much like Ferrari these days.... big on promises but very short on delivery. The '3rd best chassis' claim is one of the most ridiculous they have made all year though as even at non-power circuits it is clear the car is far from competitive..... and I can't recall the last time McLaren did make a decent car, even in 2014 when they had the Merc engine they were not even close to being the second best Merc powered team.

The only positive I can see for McHonda is they have huge resources they can combine together and the relaxation of the development rules next season may allow them to finally catch up..... assuming Mercedes are reaching the maximum of what can actually be achieved with this kind of engine technology and don't suddenly find another 100 bhp themselves.

Edited by VolvoT5 on Monday 10th October 17:13

All of the top teams have huge resources, and whilst Honda undoubtedly have deep pockets MacLaren themselves must be feeling the pinch, they've got top team budgets with bottom team points, and I doubt they're getting as much sponsorship income as they're used to. Despite the talk, they haven't been a challenger for quite a few years, they're heading the same way as Williams.

[Mr_Thyroid]

Rich_W said:

Indeed. And next to NZ Golf Course is the Council Dump! Though that doesn't stop certain "people" depositing their washing machines and general crap along that road in the bushes anyway. Salubrious!

I have previously worked in Woking for approximately 4 years all told. Some of my Mums family live in Old Woking. I do know the area.

McLaren MSO is (or was last time I was nearby) still in Sheerwater. (Which as you say is a st hole) I think they also have McLaren GT on that same industrial estate.

But yes my point is that if you live in Oxfordshire, have kids in schools and are within a half hour commute of several teams. Would you move to Woking with it's Peacock Centre and giant War of the Worlds thingy



With the proviso that Lickety Split IS a top place to get lunch (if a bit London with their pricing)

I think I can say with a fair degree of certainty that the influence on McLaren's recent form of the urban design of Woking's town centre is so vanishingly small that it's probably not worth considering.

[bristolracer]

Well in the time I've been watching F1 I've seen the rise and fall of
Tyrell
Matra
Lotus
Williams
Renault

Teams that at the time seemed insurmountable

Times change, new teams arrive, new ideas, people with a fresh take on things
They may recover they may not.

No one is really crap in modern F1 you only have to loose a second and you are no where.

[deeen]

Matt_N said:

deeen said:

If the last part is correct, how does that account for their quali at Japan compared to Malaysia? I feel the problem is more the car / team now, as you hinted in your first part.

I think Suzuka just showed up where the ICE is still limiting the car / package somewhat.

The Honda ICE is still weak due to the lack of prechamber tech and energy recovery was a low point here which they apparently depend on a lot to compensate.

Fair point - I forgot it's not just "an engine", any more (sad face).

[rdjohn]

In his dreams!

http://classic.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/12...

The consistant issue for McLaren seems to be that they overestimate their own strengths, while dismissing the strength of their opposition.

It is not a good recipe for success.

[rubystone]

Smollet said:

You clearly have no idea exactly where they are based. They are not in Woking itself but next to New Zealand golf course which is in a very salubrious part of Surrey which is one of the richest counties in England so it's not their location that's caused their current parlous state.

They're 2 miles outside Woking actually... In my mind, that's Woking. And it is indeed not that salubrious.

[RYH64E]

rubystone said:

They're 2 miles outside Woking actually... In my mind, that's Woking. And it is indeed not that salubrious.

Woking is one of my least favourite towns in the UK, it's over priced, under rated, and really nothing special. I worked there for a number of years and hated it.

[Mr_Thyroid]

This question is too broad. Clearly McLaren are not that crap - they are 6th in the constructors and have generally been on an upward slope for 18 months; however Suzuka was a shocker, and an unexpected shocker. So, why were they so bad at Suzuka, what is it about that circuit that didn't suit their car?

[KevinCamaroSS]

Mr_Thyroid said:

This question is too broad. Clearly McLaren are not that crap - they are 6th in the constructors and have generally been on an upward slope for 18 months; however Suzuka was a shocker, and an unexpected shocker. So, why were they so bad at Suzuka, what is it about that circuit that didn't suit their car?

Power, need more power.......

[tommunster10]

They need Lewis back, he'd of won them the WDC if only he'd stayed!

(joke)

[belleair302]

The issue is the relationship between the chassis engineers in the UK and the engine designers in both Japan and the UK. Unless both communicate in the same way and understand the design issues and aero problems then the car will never perform as planned. Honda are certainly not there regarding technology, McLaren do have a lack of sponsors and will no doubt be leaning on Honda for funds....but it all boils down to people, teamwork, sharing information and developing ideas at a similar pace....not two organisations doing their own thing hoping it works.

[Mr_Thyroid]

KevinCamaroSS said:

Power, need more power.......

7th in Belgium - more of a power circuit.
14th and 12th in Monza - power more important - chassis less-so.
Canada and Baku, where power is important, they also ran better.

Both cars were beaten by a Sauber, a Torro Rosso, a Haas and both Renaults. The Renaults in particular is a surprise - I would have thought the McLaren chassis should be better and the Honda power similar.

[Rich_W]

Mr_Thyroid said:

I think I can say with a fair degree of certainty that the influence on McLaren's recent form of the urban design of Woking's town centre is so vanishingly small that it's probably not worth considering.

I bet you're fun at parties

rdjohn said:

In his dreams!

http://classic.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/12...

The consistent issue for McLaren seems to be that they overestimate their own strengths, while dismissing the strength of their opposition.

It is not a good recipe for success.

Yup. Which is why I wondered if there's a fear of failure there covered by a veneer of "we know what we're doing" when they are simply behind. But no one will email [e-mail] and point any of this out for fear of being dismissed for "gross misconduct: employee suggested we are not going to win next years championships"

History is actually quite worrying!

Last WDC was Lewis in 08. Before that Mika in 98+99!
Last Constructors was 98 and 99

Before both of those last championships were 91!

[ukaskew]

When was the last time a team with a strong Japanese link was actually successful? Toyota had one of the biggest budgets in F1 and basically did nothing.

Ferrari aside, having key elements outside of Motorsport Valley must be pretty tough.

[Rich_W]

ukaskew said:

When was the last time a team with a strong Japanese link was actually successful? Toyota had one of the biggest budgets in F1 and basically did nothing.

Ferrari aside, having key elements outside of Motorsport Valley must be pretty tough.

I'm going to guess McLaren Honda of the late 80s. I'm not up to speed on that time. Was it their driver line up, the engine or the chassis that was the dominant aspect at the time?

[Hedgehogfromhell]

Autosport are reporting the MGU-H isn't efficient and they are losing close to 100bhp per lap.

Merc use axial flow compressor whereas the McHonda uses a standard compressor which is where it's reported this loss is coming from.

Alonsos outburst is a little unsettling - not to mention extremely embarrassing for Honda. I'm not sure if there's a good time to change management - but after that outburst it's surely coming.

Edited by Hedgehogfromhell on Tuesday 11th October 22:54

[lee_fr200]

why whats alonso said i must have missed it

[RYH64E]

ukaskew said:

When was the last time a team with a strong Japanese link was actually successful? Toyota had one of the biggest budgets in F1 and basically did nothing.

Ferrari aside, having key elements outside of Motorsport Valley must be pretty tough.

Honda had a championship winning package when they pulled out and gifted the lot to Brawn.

[coppice]

Rich_W said:

I'm going to guess McLaren Honda of the late 80s. I'm not up to speed on that time. Was it their driver line up, the engine or the chassis that was the dominant aspect at the time?

Hmm- complicated;Williams had the Honda engine 84-87 - which was the best of the bunch all round- and did well with it but struggled against the near perfect storm of McLaren design , TAG V6 power and wily fox Lauda and uberdriver Prost . Frank Williams had his accident and Honda got cold feet and from 88 McLzren had Honda power and demolished everybody with great car, Prost and Senna and engine which was powerful and frugal . 89 saw return of n/a engines and Honda came out of left field with a V10 and with Senna and Prost could walk on water; Honda changed to a V12, and eventually waned as Williams Renault ascended.

I admire Honda hugely - their cars have not always been successful, some have been bloody awful, but they are not afraid to take the road less travelled . And their 60s F1 engines especially sounded just wonderful !