Why are McLaren so crap?

[coppice]

Me too- not a huge Ronzo fan but a man of extraordinary drive and achievement . Perhaps worthy of a more generous thread title than 'why are they crap ?'- but , for some , nothing apparently beats the sweet taste of schadenfreude.

[tommyjj]

Alonso seems to have had the worst of times at McLaren.

The year he first joined them he was trumpeted all over the place as being the new face of the team, but that year a young whippersnapper called Lewis Hamilton also got a drive in F1 with McLaren, who then went on to dominate.

The next time Alonso returns to McLaren they build him one of the worst cars on the grid.

[tommyjj]

Is it maybe the case that they just care less about racing now the road car brand is growing nicely?

[rubystone]

tommyjj said:

Is it maybe the case that they just care less about racing now the road car brand is growing nicely?

Definitely not.

[Rich_W]

Can anyone explain to me then what McLaren have done in the recent past that is "unusual" or "new thinking" yes back in the 80s first CF car, but recently?

I tend towards them playing it far too safe. And as above, not having anything to show for it.

Granted a long period of static rules doesn't allow for a team to out think the opposition as much. But are they really likely to come out next year with a genuine podium contender?

[groomi]

Rich_W said:

Can anyone explain to me then what McLaren have done in the recent past that is "unusual" or "new thinking" yes back in the 80s first CF car, but recently?

I tend towards them playing it far too safe. And as above, not having anything to show for it.

Granted a long period of static rules doesn't allow for a team to out think the opposition as much. But are they really likely to come out next year with a genuine podium contender?

Octopus exhausts (bad)
F-Duct (good)
Size zero (bad)
Wierd rear wishbones (bad)

[Dr Murdoch]

groomi said:

Octopus exhausts (bad)
F-Duct (good)
Size zero (bad)
Wierd rear wishbones (bad)

Indeed, when new cars come out tend to look towards the McLarens for radical-ness

[rubystone]

Add to the list Brake Steer (good). Devised by Sideshow Bob. Not sure if he's still there...if any current McLaren employees are on PH, perhaps they could confirm this? Actually, I'm wrong, Bob came up with the F Duct! Apologies.

Edited by rubystone on Saturday 15th October 07:14

[PhillipM]

Bolt on brake duct blockers instead of tape, the inwash rear wing they've been testing. That engine in the back instead of staying on what the rest of the field is using...

[Rich_W]

So the last decent choice/desigbn was F Duct. Which (Google says) was 2010. 6 years, an eon!(7 if you include the design process start date) Nothing that's really been a stand out moment in the recent past.

The Honda choice was IMO a result of McLaren not challenging the other teams and a sort of panic situation with Ron getting all nostalgic about the late 80s. Honda (as discussed elsewhere) haven't produced a winning engine since 06. (Jensons first win. Which was against the run of form)


So asking another question. How will McLaren turn it around?

[rubystone]

[quote=Rich_W]So the last decent choice/desigbn was F Duct. Which (Google says) was 2010. 6 years, an eon!(7 if you include the design process start date) Nothing that's really been a stand out moment in the recent past.

The Honda choice was IMO a result of McLaren not challenging the other teams and a sort of panic situation with Ron getting all nostalgic about the late 80s. Honda (as discussed elsewhere) haven't produced a winning engine since 06. (Jensons first win. Which was against the run of form)


So asking another question. How will McLaren turn it around?[/quote

Interesting. What about other teams? Mercedes reinventing FRIC? what have Ferrari done? Red Bull is all about rake rather then a specific component.

[lee_fr200]

as i said the other day, all the teams are going to improve for 2017

so if merc improve by 2 seconds a lap

mclaren need to improve by 4 seconds just to be on a par

or 5-6 seconds to be dominant


sorry but i don't see it happening, i think red bull and renault have more chance of gaining on mercedes, and ferrari will be there somewhere but mclaren i see been no better


i do hope I'm wrong though

[anonymous-user]

Rich_W said:

So the last decent choice/desigbn was F Duct. Which (Google says) was 2010. 6 years, an eon!(7 if you include the design process start date) Nothing that's really been a stand out moment in the recent past.

The Honda choice was IMO a result of McLaren not challenging the other teams and a sort of panic situation with Ron getting all nostalgic about the late 80s. Honda (as discussed elsewhere) haven't produced a winning engine since 06. (Jensons first win. Which was against the run of form)


So asking another question. How will McLaren turn it around?

I'm not involved in F1, so I can't give an insider opinion, however from everything I've seen the decision to go with Honda was nothing to do with nostalgia.

Mercedes works team will always have the edge over customer ones, as they can design the chassis with the powertrain development in harmony. Ferrari will simply not allow a customer team to outperform the works one. Renault has not yet been sufficiently competitive and, when McLaren were choosing their option, they weren't very committed to remaining in F1.

This meant McLaren had to find another route, where they could find top-level financial and R&D support, without fighting against the manufacturer themselves- Honda.

Whether it's been the right decision depends on what timescale you require for success. If they're front running in 2017/18, and this is sustained for 3 or 4 seasons, will it be any different to McLaren in 98-99, Ferrari in the early 00s, Renault in 05-06, Red Bull 09 to 13 or Mercedes since then, all of whom had not been winning for years and had to put in the hard yards to get to the top? Would we say McLaren had been any less successful?

[anonymous-user]

Eric Mc said:

McLaren do an awful lot besides F1. I sometimes think their other corporate interests take precedence over F1 on occasion.

When I did a stint at KPMG couple of years back, they announced a big alliance with McLaren, at the early stages KPMG was massively interested in Mc's predictive analytics tools and skills.

[rubystone]

Vandenberg said:

When I did a stint at KPMG couple of years back, they announced a big alliance with McLaren, at the early stages KPMG was massively interested in Mc's predictive analytics tools and skills.

Yep. It's all about their application of real-time analytics. KPMG are still a partner.

[revrange]

McLaren F1 of recent years hasn't been the best.

Clearly lots of issues.

Many here have reference 2014, but McLaren run Mobile 1/Exxon fuels, not what works and other Merc teams run. It left them 40-50bhp down on the other Merc teams in 2014 and also the chassis was no match for the Merc in 2014.

Clearly they havent built a rocket ship for a few years,they seem to be on the right track, slowly but what the top of this cuvre is i don't know. Many believe the Honda is still off the Merc and the aero/chassis still isn't in the same league as Red Bull/Mercedes. Another decent set next year will see them firmly challenging for high point scores and podiums, but that isn't world titles is it?

[Dakkon]

tommyjj said:

Is it maybe the case that they just care less about racing now the road car brand is growing nicely?

This just shows how little you understand the company, the race team and the road cars are completely separate.

[coppice]

Hell of a coincidence they share a name though, some might say . No difference to what ACBC did with a myriad subsidiaries at Lotus - but still 'Lotus' at heart- and I am sure Ronzo's empire is just the same .

[KevinCamaroSS]

Dakkon said:

This just shows how little you understand the company, the race team and the road cars are completely separate.

Indeed, McLaren Automotive was set up in 2010 as a stand-alone company with a different ownership structure to the McLaren Technology Group.

[Rich_W]

KevinCamaroSS said:

Dakkon said:

This just shows how little you understand the company, the race team and the road cars are completely separate.

Indeed, McLaren Automotive was set up in 2010 as a stand-alone company with a different ownership structure to the McLaren Technology Group.

You're both misinformed!

McLaren Cars was set up in '88 ish. F1, Soapbox racer, Adrenalin project et al

It was REBRANDED McLaren Automotive in 2003 ish. SLR McLaren. Moved to Technology Centre around this time. They were building the first SLRs when the Queen opened the place. All the signage/headed paper at the time said Automotive.

Then when they launched MP4-12C they decided to try and make out it was a new company called McLaren Automotive (The Wiki page is incorrect.)

Saying that. I'm not sure how it's classified as a stand alone company. All the various arms of McLaren (Racing, Automotive, Applied Tech, Absolute Waste) are stand alone companies to a degree. But all fall under the umbrella of McLaren Group.