The Official 2016 Mexico Grand Prix Thread **Spoilers**
Discussion
angrymoby said:
This.
Plus, FOM needs them transmitted as it adds to the 'package' & Charlie needs it, for track info/ conditions (unlike a football referee, where the communication SHOULD be one way)
& i'd imagine Ferrari could quite easily block transmissions if they choose ...indeed i wouldn't be surprised if they hadn't threatened to, if Seb had been punished
IIRC they can't block them.Plus, FOM needs them transmitted as it adds to the 'package' & Charlie needs it, for track info/ conditions (unlike a football referee, where the communication SHOULD be one way)
& i'd imagine Ferrari could quite easily block transmissions if they choose ...indeed i wouldn't be surprised if they hadn't threatened to, if Seb had been punished
angrymoby said:
& i'd imagine Ferrari could quite easily block transmissions if they choose ...indeed i wouldn't be surprised if they hadn't threatened to, if Seb had been punished
They can't. All pit communications have to be unencrypted and available for anyone to hear. Do you honestly think the teams wouldn't be using secure encrypted comms if they were allowed to?
ClockworkCupcake said:
angrymoby said:
& i'd imagine Ferrari could quite easily block transmissions if they choose ...indeed i wouldn't be surprised if they hadn't threatened to, if Seb had been punished
They can't. All pit communications have to be unencrypted and available for anyone to hear. Do you honestly think the teams wouldn't be using secure encrypted comms if they were allowed to?
308mate said:
I read that Bernie and Co have veto power on what goes out though, no?
Probably, but he also knows what raises money - I wouldn't be surprised if he brokered the deal to have Seb's rant broadcast, cancel Max's penalty, get Seb to apologise to Charlie "safety-car" Whiting and then pocket another briefcase stuffed with cash to somewhere like the Cayman Islands! The sooner he leaves F1 the better IMHO - it just looks like his personal plaything, and whenever he is interviewed he just comes across as a charmless man with no redeeming features (IMHO of course)!
ClockworkCupcake said:
They can't. All pit communications have to be unencrypted and available for anyone to hear.
Do you honestly think the teams wouldn't be using secure encrypted comms if they were allowed to?
the key word being 'allowed' ...because like that ever stopped a team (especially a team like Ferrari).Do you honestly think the teams wouldn't be using secure encrypted comms if they were allowed to?
Plus the drivers can already go 'mute' by using the back-up system.
& Ferrari are already in 'batten down the hatches' mode ...look at the press conferences (or lack of)
Sylvaforever said:
VladD said:
Seriously? Footballers tell the ref to f
k off
THAT'S k offTHE
WHOLE
POINT
The point was that if a footballer told a ref to f
k off they probably would get sanctioned. My belief is that footballers tell refs to fk off all the time and there is usually absolutely no sanction.VladD said:
Sylvaforever said:
VladD said:
Seriously? Footballers tell the ref to fk off
THAT'S k offTHE
WHOLE
POINT
The point was that if a footballer told a ref to f
k off they probably would get sanctioned. My belief is that footballers tell refs to fk off all the time and there is usually absolutely no sanction.So basically there will be some refs who give players warnings or cards for swearing at them others not. But with F1 you have one guy and if they want to give a sanction and one football match you saw the ref didn't its got no comparable bearing at all.
Also i don't really care if a driver swears over the radio so long as its bleeped out as my 2 year old and 6 year watch Motorsport with me. But for me all this shows along with the moaning about blue flags is that Vettel is far from the "at least he's not a corporate drone" nonsense some have said, but actually IMO just showing he's a mardy git once he's in a car that can't win or get close to a win, but even so he should be grateful he's not in a McLaren.
First season in Ferrari he got the Ferrari effect and made him look good still, now he's where Alonso was with Ferrari. He basically should of stayed at Red Bull and he knows it.
tommunster10 said:
Thing is theres thousands of football matches around the world every weekend in the top flight let alone the rest of the leagues, but theres onlt one F1 race.
So basically there will be some refs who give players warnings or cards for swearing at them others not. But with F1 you have one guy and if they want to give a sanction and one football match you saw the ref didn't its got no comparable bearing at all.
Also i don't really care if a driver swears over the radio so long as its bleeped out as my 2 year old and 6 year watch Motorsport with me. But for me all this shows along with the moaning about blue flags is that Vettel is far from the "at least he's not a corporate drone" nonsense some have said, but actually IMO just showing he's a mardy git once he's in a car that can't win or get close to a win, but even so he should be grateful he's not in a McLaren.
First season in Ferrari he got the Ferrari effect and made him look good still, now he's where Alonso was with Ferrari. He basically should of stayed at Red Bull and he knows it.
Vettels problem is he sounds like a kid whos been told his parents arent watching, its a bit cringeworthy. Kimis sSo basically there will be some refs who give players warnings or cards for swearing at them others not. But with F1 you have one guy and if they want to give a sanction and one football match you saw the ref didn't its got no comparable bearing at all.
Also i don't really care if a driver swears over the radio so long as its bleeped out as my 2 year old and 6 year watch Motorsport with me. But for me all this shows along with the moaning about blue flags is that Vettel is far from the "at least he's not a corporate drone" nonsense some have said, but actually IMO just showing he's a mardy git once he's in a car that can't win or get close to a win, but even so he should be grateful he's not in a McLaren.
First season in Ferrari he got the Ferrari effect and made him look good still, now he's where Alonso was with Ferrari. He basically should of stayed at Red Bull and he knows it.
t and lewis 2 fingered salute were funny and cool but seb just doesnt know when to stop. And its not the first time he's been told off about swearing either.hairyben said:
Vettels problem is he sounds like a kid whos been told his parents arent watching, its a bit cringeworthy. Kimis st and lewis 2 fingered salute were funny and cool but seb just doesnt know when to stop. And its not the first time he's been told off about swearing either.
He obviously meant it to be heard too, otherwise he would have sworn in German!t and lewis 2 fingered salute were funny and cool but seb just doesnt know when to stop. And its not the first time he's been told off about swearing either.PoleDriver said:
hairyben said:
Vettels problem is he sounds like a kid whos been told his parents arent watching, its a bit cringeworthy. Kimis st and lewis 2 fingered salute were funny and cool but seb just doesnt know when to stop. And its not the first time he's been told off about swearing either.
He obviously meant it to be heard too, otherwise he would have sworn in German!t and lewis 2 fingered salute were funny and cool but seb just doesnt know when to stop. And its not the first time he's been told off about swearing either.
Did anyone watch the German coverage? did they play the German version?
A more complete transcript of the radio chatter in the last few laps (courtesy of AMuS):
L68 – RB to Verstappen: Ok, give the position. I think you’re going to have to give the position back, Max.
L68 – Verstappen: Let me know!
L68 – RB to Verstappen: Ok, stay there!
L68 – Vettel: He has to let me go, he has to let me go.
L68 – FER to Vettel: Ok, copy. Stay calm!
L68 – Vettel: No, it's not right. I don't stay calm, cause he is backing me into Ricciardo.
L68 – FER to Vettel: Copy that.
L68 – FER to Vettel: We're on it with Charlie.
L68 – FER to Vettel: Ok, Verstappen has to give you the position. Watch for Ricciardo behind!
L68 – RB to Ricciardo: Okay mate, so let's keep it smooth. Take advantage when you can.
L69 – FER to Vettel: 3 laps to go.
L69 – Vettel: Move! Move, for fks sake!
L69 – FER to Vettel: He has been informed. He has to move.
L69 – Vettel: He's a bd, that's what he is.
L69 – RB to Verstappen: Alright mate, this is going to be investigated after the race, so keep your head down. 2 laps.
L69 – RB to Ricciardo: Ok, 2 laps to go. Battery is full. Let's go!
L70 – Vettel: Am I the only one, or are you not seeing what I'm seeing? He's just backing me off into Ricciardo. fk me.
L70 – FER to Vettel: You have to fight with him. Charlie...
L70 – Vettel: What the hell are you talking about? He cut the chicane.
L70 – FER to Vettel: Ok, copy.
L70 – Vettel: And now, he's brake-testing me.
Ricciardo tries to overtake Vettel leading to contact between the two
L70 – Vettel: I mean, honestly, I'm going to hit someone. I think I have a puncture. Rear left.
L70 – Ricciardo: That was fked. He moved on braking. I had already committed. fk!
L70 – RB to Ricciardo: Ok, understood. Vettel may have a puncture.
L70 – FER to Vettel: Tyres are fine. Tyres are fine.
L70 – FER to Vettel: The car is fine, you can fight. The car is fine, you can fight.
L70 – Vettel: He has to give me the position, end of the story.
L70 – FER to Vettel: Charlie said that... Charlie said...
L70 – Vettel: Yeah... you know what, here's the message for Charlie: fk off! Honestly. fk off!
L70 – Arrivabene to Vettel: Sebastian, Sebastian... calm down! They are under investigation. I know that it’s not fair. But calm down. Put your head down and we will talk afterwards.
L70 – Vettel: Ok, copy Maurizio.
L71 – RB to Verstappen: Ok Max, last lap. Gap to Sebastian 1.7 seconds.
L71 – RB to Ricciardo: Ok mate, this is the last lap now. Tyre pressures are fine. This is the last lap.
L71 – Ricciardo: I've got a massive vibration. How is the gap behind?
L71 – RB to Ricciardo: Yeah, understood. You've got a 30 seconds gap behind to Raikkonen. Keep up the pace in case Vettel gets a penalty. You've got no threat from behind. Try to keep within 5 seconds if possible.
L71 – FER to Vettel: Ricciardo has lost pace behind. He's 2.7 seconds behind. Try to stay as close as possible in case of 5 second penalty at the end. This is the last lap.
Chequered Flag
L71+1 – RB to Verstappen: Ah Max. What can I say, mate. Amazing job. Amazing job. Really well done.
L71+1 – Verstappen: That was hard.
L71+1 – RB to Verstappen: 59 laps on that set. Fantastic.
L71+1 – Horner to Verstappen: Well done Maxie, that was a fantastic drive. No debate about turn 1. Ferrari were moaning about it, but you were well ahead and it was a lot less than Rosberg did at the beginning of the race. Great drive, you managed it well, and it was a great effort on Nico as well.
L71+1 – Verstappen: Yeah, thank you very much Christian. It was very hard the last 10 laps. But at the end I think it was still a very good result.
L71+1 – RB to Verstappen: Cool the car on the way in Max! And just a reminder: You will be stopping with Hamilton and Rosberg at Turn 13 in the stadium. Enjoy it!
L71+1 – FER to Vettel: P4, P4... slow and cool your brakes!
L71+1 – Vettel: I think I showed enough. I mean, overtaking is not a walk in the park. So to me it is clear. That’s the last what I’m saying.
L71+1 – Arrivabene to Vettel: Sebastian we understand, we talk afterwards and we are going to talk with FIA. You have done a great race, really. I am proud of you.
L71+1 – Vettel: Grazie ragazzi. The car was great, strategy worked well. Shame about yesterday because the pace was there to do more. Grazie.
L71+1 – RB to Ricciardo: Nice job on that mate.
L71+1 – Ricciardo: Yeah, but what about all these guys outbraking themselves at the first chicane? I mean Lewis at the start and Max the same. Put a fking wall there and they won’t do it. That's bullst guys. fking kindergarten stuff.
L71+1 – RB to Ricciardo: Ok mate, understood. You did a very, very good job today. Pace was excellent. As I said, we are speaking to Charlie.
L71+1 – Horner to Ricciardo: Daniel that was as blatant a move as we’ve ever seen. The event notes are very, very clear. I don’t think you’ve got anything to fear. It was a great effort that you’ve put in and it was a great move that should have made stick.
L71+1 – RB to Ricciardo: Ok Daniel, we're driving straight around to the pit entry. I let you have a chat with Vettel.
Ric isn't half as calm as he's giving advice to Vettel afterwards. Good fun.
L68 – RB to Verstappen: Ok, give the position. I think you’re going to have to give the position back, Max.
L68 – Verstappen: Let me know!
L68 – RB to Verstappen: Ok, stay there!
L68 – Vettel: He has to let me go, he has to let me go.
L68 – FER to Vettel: Ok, copy. Stay calm!
L68 – Vettel: No, it's not right. I don't stay calm, cause he is backing me into Ricciardo.
L68 – FER to Vettel: Copy that.
L68 – FER to Vettel: We're on it with Charlie.
L68 – FER to Vettel: Ok, Verstappen has to give you the position. Watch for Ricciardo behind!
L68 – RB to Ricciardo: Okay mate, so let's keep it smooth. Take advantage when you can.
L69 – FER to Vettel: 3 laps to go.
L69 – Vettel: Move! Move, for f
ks sake!L69 – FER to Vettel: He has been informed. He has to move.
L69 – Vettel: He's a b
d, that's what he is.L69 – RB to Verstappen: Alright mate, this is going to be investigated after the race, so keep your head down. 2 laps.
L69 – RB to Ricciardo: Ok, 2 laps to go. Battery is full. Let's go!
L70 – Vettel: Am I the only one, or are you not seeing what I'm seeing? He's just backing me off into Ricciardo. f
k me.L70 – FER to Vettel: You have to fight with him. Charlie...
L70 – Vettel: What the hell are you talking about? He cut the chicane.
L70 – FER to Vettel: Ok, copy.
L70 – Vettel: And now, he's brake-testing me.
Ricciardo tries to overtake Vettel leading to contact between the two
L70 – Vettel: I mean, honestly, I'm going to hit someone. I think I have a puncture. Rear left.
L70 – Ricciardo: That was f
ked. He moved on braking. I had already committed. fk!L70 – RB to Ricciardo: Ok, understood. Vettel may have a puncture.
L70 – FER to Vettel: Tyres are fine. Tyres are fine.
L70 – FER to Vettel: The car is fine, you can fight. The car is fine, you can fight.
L70 – Vettel: He has to give me the position, end of the story.
L70 – FER to Vettel: Charlie said that... Charlie said...
L70 – Vettel: Yeah... you know what, here's the message for Charlie: f
k off! Honestly. fk off!L70 – Arrivabene to Vettel: Sebastian, Sebastian... calm down! They are under investigation. I know that it’s not fair. But calm down. Put your head down and we will talk afterwards.
L70 – Vettel: Ok, copy Maurizio.
L71 – RB to Verstappen: Ok Max, last lap. Gap to Sebastian 1.7 seconds.
L71 – RB to Ricciardo: Ok mate, this is the last lap now. Tyre pressures are fine. This is the last lap.
L71 – Ricciardo: I've got a massive vibration. How is the gap behind?
L71 – RB to Ricciardo: Yeah, understood. You've got a 30 seconds gap behind to Raikkonen. Keep up the pace in case Vettel gets a penalty. You've got no threat from behind. Try to keep within 5 seconds if possible.
L71 – FER to Vettel: Ricciardo has lost pace behind. He's 2.7 seconds behind. Try to stay as close as possible in case of 5 second penalty at the end. This is the last lap.
Chequered Flag
L71+1 – RB to Verstappen: Ah Max. What can I say, mate. Amazing job. Amazing job. Really well done.
L71+1 – Verstappen: That was hard.
L71+1 – RB to Verstappen: 59 laps on that set. Fantastic.
L71+1 – Horner to Verstappen: Well done Maxie, that was a fantastic drive. No debate about turn 1. Ferrari were moaning about it, but you were well ahead and it was a lot less than Rosberg did at the beginning of the race. Great drive, you managed it well, and it was a great effort on Nico as well.
L71+1 – Verstappen: Yeah, thank you very much Christian. It was very hard the last 10 laps. But at the end I think it was still a very good result.
L71+1 – RB to Verstappen: Cool the car on the way in Max! And just a reminder: You will be stopping with Hamilton and Rosberg at Turn 13 in the stadium. Enjoy it!
L71+1 – FER to Vettel: P4, P4... slow and cool your brakes!
L71+1 – Vettel: I think I showed enough. I mean, overtaking is not a walk in the park. So to me it is clear. That’s the last what I’m saying.
L71+1 – Arrivabene to Vettel: Sebastian we understand, we talk afterwards and we are going to talk with FIA. You have done a great race, really. I am proud of you.
L71+1 – Vettel: Grazie ragazzi. The car was great, strategy worked well. Shame about yesterday because the pace was there to do more. Grazie.
L71+1 – RB to Ricciardo: Nice job on that mate.
L71+1 – Ricciardo: Yeah, but what about all these guys outbraking themselves at the first chicane? I mean Lewis at the start and Max the same. Put a f
king wall there and they won’t do it. That's bullst guys. fking kindergarten stuff.L71+1 – RB to Ricciardo: Ok mate, understood. You did a very, very good job today. Pace was excellent. As I said, we are speaking to Charlie.
L71+1 – Horner to Ricciardo: Daniel that was as blatant a move as we’ve ever seen. The event notes are very, very clear. I don’t think you’ve got anything to fear. It was a great effort that you’ve put in and it was a great move that should have made stick.
L71+1 – RB to Ricciardo: Ok Daniel, we're driving straight around to the pit entry. I let you have a chat with Vettel.
Ric isn't half as calm as he's giving advice to Vettel afterwards. Good fun.
MiniMan64 said:
The whole thing reads a lot more bloody ridiculous when you read it like that. Boys in the playground playing competitive sport and falling out.
Vettel skates pretty thinly calling other drivers bds and telling Charlie to FO though. Do it in private, not on a public radio!
he was speaking to his own team. I don't really think his comments are too strong(though not ideal!), given the circumstances.Vettel skates pretty thinly calling other drivers b
ds and telling Charlie to FO though. Do it in private, not on a public radio!deadslow said:
MiniMan64 said:
The whole thing reads a lot more bloody ridiculous when you read it like that. Boys in the playground playing competitive sport and falling out.
Vettel skates pretty thinly calling other drivers bds and telling Charlie to FO though. Do it in private, not on a public radio!
he was speaking to his own team. I don't really think his comments are too strong(though not ideal!), given the circumstances.Vettel skates pretty thinly calling other drivers b
ds and telling Charlie to FO though. Do it in private, not on a public radio!MiniMan64 said:
deadslow said:
MiniMan64 said:
The whole thing reads a lot more bloody ridiculous when you read it like that. Boys in the playground playing competitive sport and falling out.
Vettel skates pretty thinly calling other drivers bds and telling Charlie to FO though. Do it in private, not on a public radio!
he was speaking to his own team. I don't really think his comments are too strong(though not ideal!), given the circumstances.Vettel skates pretty thinly calling other drivers b
ds and telling Charlie to FO though. Do it in private, not on a public radio!Tbh, who really cares?
Verstappen as always was flirting with the very limits of the rule book but clearly he just about managed to stay on the legal side. He was racing dirty against Vettel, backing him up and brake testing him. Vettel as a seasoned racer should be mentally equipped to deal with this sort of thing. I don't think he should be calling competitors s and telling Charlie to fk off twice. I would've been expected Vettel to have some kind of reprimand and I would've supported it so long as the punishment was served off the circuit... a yellow card, a fine etc.
s and telling Charlie to fk off twice. I would've been expected Vettel to have some kind of reprimand and I would've supported it so long as the punishment was served off the circuit... a yellow card, a fine etc.HustleRussell said:
Verstappen as always was flirting with the very limits of the rule book but clearly he just about managed to stay on the legal side. He was racing dirty against Vettel, backing him up and brake testing him. Vettel as a seasoned racer should be mentally equipped to deal with this sort of thing. I don't think he should be calling competitors s and telling Charlie to fk off twice. I would've been expected Vettel to have some kind of reprimand and I would've supported it so long as the punishment was served off the circuit... a yellow card, a fine etc.
Verstappen did 50? laps on his tyres so Vettel and Ricciardo were obviously catching him quite quickly on newer tyres.... therefore I'm not sure the idea that he was deliberately backing Vettel up holds any weight, it is more likely his tyres were simply finished. As for the alleged brake testing - we only have Vettel's word for that and I find it hard to believe that the stewards would have not have looked very dimly on any brake testing (and it would be available for them to see on the telemetry), yet nothing was mentioned after the race. s and telling Charlie to fk off twice. I would've been expected Vettel to have some kind of reprimand and I would've supported it so long as the punishment was served off the circuit... a yellow card, a fine etc.So while I have issues with Verstappen's driving over the season as a whole I find it hard to agree that he was 'racing dirty' against Vettel. The main issue was cutting the first corner and now we have the full radio transcripts it appears that Red Bull did tell him to hold his position and it would be investigated after the race - so there was no reason why he should move over. It also appears Ferrari contributed quite significantly to Vettel's frustration by initially giving the impression that Verstappen HAD to move over when in fact no such official ruling had been made. So the way I see it a large part of this controversy has been created by Vettel throwing his toys out of the pram.
edit:
I actually had more of an issue with lap one of the race when Verstappen shoved Rosberg off the road. IMO overtaking is not simply placing the car alongside and forcing your opponent to take evasive action or using their car like a guard rail to slow your own down. Button had a couple of nice moments in the race when he showed how it should be done by giving racing room for both cars.
Edited by VolvoT5 on Friday 4th November 07:18
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