Nico Rosberg retires from F1
Discussion
Vocal Minority said:
Can anyone with any knowledge of programming explain to me why hiding code is easier than removing it completely?
This is a formula one team - not a cottage industry? It baffles me how the process could be so bloody complex as to be in achievable for them
You've answered your own question, it's bloody complex This is a formula one team - not a cottage industry? It baffles me how the process could be so bloody complex as to be in achievable for them
Chances are it's buried in the root of the code and to remove it may require a complete rewrite. It's far easier to just not trigger it.Vocal Minority said:
Can anyone with any knowledge of programming explain to me why hiding code is easier than removing it completely?
This is a formula one team - not a cottage industry? It baffles me how the process could be so bloody complex as to be in achievable for them
They didn't hide the code, they hid the option in the menu which is much easier. Few lines to delete.This is a formula one team - not a cottage industry? It baffles me how the process could be so bloody complex as to be in achievable for them
Extracting the code base for that function might be much trickier, especially for an embedded system and where the team was focused on the things (being generous).
It's a bit like buying a modern car. lots of functions can be enabled by the garage - they are present on your car but need the function "switching on"
Even if Benetton were running traction control in '95, Schumacher still crushed his team mate. Such a gap has not been established by Hamilton and his team mates.
Williams was the best car on the grid.
1995
Michael Schumacher vs Johnny Herbert
Qualifying
2.9 vs 7.4 (average qualifying position)
16 vs 1 (teammate finishing above other where both cars completed qualifying)
1.357s (average lap-time Schumacher was faster by)
Race
2.3 vs 4.2 (average finishing position)
9 vs 0 (teammate finishing above other where both cars completed race)
Williams was the best car on the grid.
1995
Michael Schumacher vs Johnny Herbert
Qualifying
2.9 vs 7.4 (average qualifying position)
16 vs 1 (teammate finishing above other where both cars completed qualifying)
1.357s (average lap-time Schumacher was faster by)
Race
2.3 vs 4.2 (average finishing position)
9 vs 0 (teammate finishing above other where both cars completed race)
sparta6 said:
Even if Benetton were running traction control in '95, Schumacher still crushed his team mate. Such a gap has not been established by Hamilton and his team mates.
Williams was the best car on the grid.
1995
Michael Schumacher vs Johnny Herbert
Qualifying
2.9 vs 7.4 (average qualifying position)
16 vs 1 (teammate finishing above other where both cars completed qualifying)
1.357s (average lap-time Schumacher was faster by)
Race
2.3 vs 4.2 (average finishing position)
9 vs 0 (teammate finishing above other where both cars completed race)
throw up the stats vs Kovalainen & also that time when Schumacher went up against a driver who actually became a WDC Williams was the best car on the grid.
1995
Michael Schumacher vs Johnny Herbert
Qualifying
2.9 vs 7.4 (average qualifying position)
16 vs 1 (teammate finishing above other where both cars completed qualifying)
1.357s (average lap-time Schumacher was faster by)
Race
2.3 vs 4.2 (average finishing position)
9 vs 0 (teammate finishing above other where both cars completed race)
sparta6 said:
Even if Benetton were running traction control in '95, Schumacher still crushed his team mate. Such a gap has not been established by Hamilton and his team mates.
Williams was the best car on the grid.
1995
Michael Schumacher vs Johnny Herbert
Qualifying
2.9 vs 7.4 (average qualifying position)
16 vs 1 (teammate finishing above other where both cars completed qualifying)
1.357s (average lap-time Schumacher was faster by)
Race
2.3 vs 4.2 (average finishing position)
9 vs 0 (teammate finishing above other where both cars completed race)
At least be fair about it, Herbert was never the same after having his foot sewn back on, he had braking issues for the rest of his career.Williams was the best car on the grid.
1995
Michael Schumacher vs Johnny Herbert
Qualifying
2.9 vs 7.4 (average qualifying position)
16 vs 1 (teammate finishing above other where both cars completed qualifying)
1.357s (average lap-time Schumacher was faster by)
Race
2.3 vs 4.2 (average finishing position)
9 vs 0 (teammate finishing above other where both cars completed race)
sparta6 said:
ferrisbueller said:
The Independent, Saturday 3, 1994
Brawn's claim that the system had not been used during the 1994 season could neither be proved nor disproved; the FIA's decision to publicise their findings suggested that they had their suspicions. After all, if Launch Control was now redundant, why had it had been left sitting in the software? Because, the Benetton people said, the task of isolating and removing it was one of impossible complexity. (The concealment, they added, was simply to prevent somebody switching it on by mistake.)
In the very next race, at Hockenheim, Schumacher suffered his first retirement of the season in front of his home crowd. And Jos Verstappen's car briefly disappeared inside a fireball when fuel spurted out of a hose and ignited on the hot engine - the result, said the equipment's manufacturers, of Benetton's illicit removal of a filter, by which they speeded up the fuel-flow (perhaps saving a second per stop, which Senna would have been interested to hear) but which had allowed a piece of dirt to jam a valve open. In their own defence, Benetton claimed that the modification had been verbally agreed with the FIA's technical observer, and commissioned an independent investigation which, unsurprisingly, exonerated them.
Agreement or not, cheating or not that mod saved them 1 second pluss per pit stop, Michael made a lot of passes in the pits in 94.
Vaud said:
Vocal Minority said:
Can anyone with any knowledge of programming explain to me why hiding code is easier than removing it completely?
This is a formula one team - not a cottage industry? It baffles me how the process could be so bloody complex as to be in achievable for them
They didn't hide the code, they hid the option in the menu which is much easier. Few lines to delete.This is a formula one team - not a cottage industry? It baffles me how the process could be so bloody complex as to be in achievable for them
Extracting the code base for that function might be much trickier, especially for an embedded system and where the team was focused on the things (being generous).
It's a bit like buying a modern car. lots of functions can be enabled by the garage - they are present on your car but need the function "switching on"
It would be nice to hear from Jos is it was ever used in the race (and, of course brillint to hear from MS on this, or any other issue!!)
williamp said:
It would be nice to hear from Jos is it was ever used in the race (and, of course brillint to hear from MS on this, or any other issue!!)
there was an interview from Jos who took over michaels car at heockenheim after destroying his in practice...and straight away went a couple of seconds a lap quicker IIRC37chevy said:
there was an interview from Jos who took over michaels car at heockenheim after destroying his in practice...and straight away went a couple of seconds a lap quicker IIRC
No disrespect to Jos, but probably because Michael knows how to set up a car properly.I reckon Jos learned quite a bit alongside Michael and has passed that onto young Max
37chevy said:
williamp said:
It would be nice to hear from Jos is it was ever used in the race (and, of course brillint to hear from MS on this, or any other issue!!)
there was an interview from Jos who took over michaels car at heockenheim after destroying his in practice...and straight away went a couple of seconds a lap quicker IIRChttps://joesaward.wordpress.com/2011/12/07/verstap...
jm doc said:
37chevy said:
Just shows Rosberg's total disrespect to the team and complete lack of class.CBA to quote it all and probably shouldn't since it is a premium feature but:
autosport said:
When Rosberg solidly trounced Schumacher over three years, did he receive accolades? No, suddenly Schumacher had lost it, had got too old, did not understand Pirelli's tyres - name it, excuses were trotted out. Then, just when Mercedes came really good, thanks in no small part to Rosberg's engineering insight, non-executive chair Niki Lauda went shopping for Hamilton.
...
When things went wrong between them, as they did in 2014 in Belgium, then this season in Spain, Canada and Austria, it was invariably Rosberg who left team briefings under a cloud despite the incidents being what can be described as 'racing incidents' even if they were between team-mates.
Consider Hamilton's refusal to do media briefings, failure to turn up at functions, sudden ailments when tests beckoned; then recall that a smiling Rosberg was always there, best face forward, every word a sponsor's delight. Forget that he dearly wished to be home with his family while Hamilton partied on all sides of the globe: Rosberg was there for Mercedes. Yet, when chips were down, such contributions were conveniently overlooked.
...
When things went wrong between them, as they did in 2014 in Belgium, then this season in Spain, Canada and Austria, it was invariably Rosberg who left team briefings under a cloud despite the incidents being what can be described as 'racing incidents' even if they were between team-mates.
Consider Hamilton's refusal to do media briefings, failure to turn up at functions, sudden ailments when tests beckoned; then recall that a smiling Rosberg was always there, best face forward, every word a sponsor's delight. Forget that he dearly wished to be home with his family while Hamilton partied on all sides of the globe: Rosberg was there for Mercedes. Yet, when chips were down, such contributions were conveniently overlooked.
Edited by VolvoT5 on Wednesday 7th December 14:37
JNW1 said:
37chevy said:
williamp said:
It would be nice to hear from Jos is it was ever used in the race (and, of course brillint to hear from MS on this, or any other issue!!)
there was an interview from Jos who took over michaels car at heockenheim after destroying his in practice...and straight away went a couple of seconds a lap quicker IIRChttps://joesaward.wordpress.com/2011/12/07/verstap...
k this for a living, I don't need the grief, I'm off"
sparta6 said:
37chevy said:
there was an interview from Jos who took over michaels car at heockenheim after destroying his in practice...and straight away went a couple of seconds a lap quicker IIRC
No disrespect to Jos, but probably because Michael knows how to set up a car properly.I reckon Jos learned quite a bit alongside Michael and has passed that onto young Max
Max is great for F1- no quarter given, full gas the whole way.... like Schuey, Senna, Hamilton etc, the drivers we love/love to hate.
scubadude said:
sparta6 said:
37chevy said:
there was an interview from Jos who took over michaels car at heockenheim after destroying his in practice...and straight away went a couple of seconds a lap quicker IIRC
No disrespect to Jos, but probably because Michael knows how to set up a car properly.I reckon Jos learned quite a bit alongside Michael and has passed that onto young Max
Max is great for F1- no quarter given, full gas the whole way.... like Schuey, Senna, Hamilton etc, the drivers we love/love to hate.
Re Jos and not taking any S**T. Whilst I never witnessed the following, I believe it to be 100% true . At a kart meeting Max was competing in not so very long ago. There was contact on the track between Max and another driver. Jos sought out the team awning of the driver making contact with Max. Said driver was driving for a very large and respected team. Jos parked his van facing the awning opening , went inside and accosted the team principle,raised voices and the following threat was heard. "If any of your drivers hit Max I will drive my van through your awning" This was taken to be a promise and not a threat. Needless to say the driving standards improved immediately.
Jos not a man to be trifled with
Jos not a man to be trifled with
Shelsleyf2 said:
Re Jos and not taking any S**T. Whilst I never witnessed the following, I believe it to be 100% true . At a kart meeting Max was competing in not so very long ago. There was contact on the track between Max and another driver. Jos sought out the team awning of the driver making contact with Max. Said driver was driving for a very large and respected team. Jos parked his van facing the awning opening , went inside and accosted the team principle,raised voices and the following threat was heard. "If any of your drivers hit Max I will drive my van through your awning" This was taken to be a promise and not a threat. Needless to say the driving standards improved immediately.
Jos not a man to be trifled with
Exactly the sort of person no one should have too or needs to deal with! If he's like that you can bet his son is like it, thinks he is better than the rest, sounds like a complete d**khead.Jos not a man to be trifled with
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